Biden Administration II

by Judith Curry

Just as everyone was heaving a sigh of relief that 2020 is over, 2021 is providing some fresh craziness.

We clearly need a new thread on this topic, but I have about 15 minutes today to spend preparing one.  A few quick thoughts.

For context on craziness in U.S. electoral politics, I encourage you to read 1876 by Gore Vidal.  Vidal is a superb writer, tells the story of the election of 1876.  The political backdrop to the story is the 1876 presidential election,  a close contest between Samuel Tilden and the Republican Rutherford Hayes.   Tilden won the popular but there was a dispute over the results in 4 states. Shenanagins with electors ensued, and Hayes was eventually declared the winner.

The storming of the U.S. Capitol Building was appalling and surreal.  I saw one comment on twitter that the law enforcement presence at the Capitol yesterday was far less than for Jane Fonda’s climate march. Exactly how do you explain all this to school children?

In the U.S. the Proud Boys (on the right) and the Antifa (on the left) have wrought much havoc during the Trump administration.  One can only hope that both groups disappear during the Biden administration.  While much is said about the extreme partisan split in the U.S., much of the populace yearns for for the sensible center.

The senatorial election in Georgia gives Senate control to the Democrats (I am very relieved the GA election is over,  with a 404 area code on my cell phone I received about a million texts re the GA election).  Incoming Presidents typically also have same party control of the Senate (since 1989); this helps the President’s Cabinet members and judicial appointments to be approved.  By midterm elections two years down the road, the party in power typically suffers losses in the House and Senate, which puts the brakes on  the President’s agenda.  Bill Clinton (Democrat) ended up with both Houses being Republican (after the ‘Tea Party’ uprising), which resulted in some surprisingly successful bipartisan legislation.

So lets see what the Biden administration can do re Covid, environmental and climate issues, the economy, China, etc.

My 15 minutes are up!

Update:  I went to check twitter, several people have tweeted this post (IMO nothing here with twitting, just trying to open up discussion.  Here is what appeared in my notifications.

804 responses to “Biden Administration II

  1. Well, we may have one shoe …

    MEDIA BLACKOUT!

    The founder of the radical left-wing activist group Insurgence USA, John Sullivan, was inside the capitol & filmed Ashli Babbit lying in a pool of blood dying!

    Sullivan is a well-known violent agitator in Utah who was arrested for violence against conservatives

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/confirmed-activist-interviewed-cnn-stormed-capitol-building-radical-leftist-utah-threatened-video-rip-trump-white-house/

  2. You said Clinton. Did you mean Obama?

    • Actually Clinton, towards the end of his term. Lots of good legislation. Obama resorted to doing what he could in the Executive Branch

      • Everett F Sargent

        Some people here need to read the history books correctly …
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#History

        Being off by a decade? Clinton never mentioned at all on that entire page?

        Everything points to a real foundation circa 2009 and the Obama Administration …
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#First_national_protests_and_birth_of_national_movement

        Goalpost moving much? Rewriting history much!

      • Everett F Sargent

        Also, antifa is almost never capitalized as far as sentence structure goes. Is Janurary 2021 so-called Bad History Month?

        “the Antifa” seriously? How do we explain to school children those people incapable of proper scholarship?

      • James Williams Lowrie

        Clinton was willing to compromise with Gingrich which ended up bringing us the only balanced budget in my lifetime. Gingrich came to power with the “contract with America” agenda rather than the Tea Party. Clinton even said “the days of big government are over.” The federal gov ernment funding ended at around 17% of GDP. It grew to 19% under bush and then balooned to almost 25% under Obama. I can’t imagine what last year will run out as but I do know there’s no free lunch and the long term deficit spending is going to come down on us eventually.

      • James

        Rounding off GDP at $21 Trillion with spending in FY21 of $6.5 Trillion means the US spent about 31% of GDP. Spending might go down in FY22 but I can’t imagine very much.

        You are correct about Gingrich and holding down spending, which increased by 30% under Clinton. But the restraint on spending won’t be mentioned much by the MSM, which believes the Clinton tax increase is what balanced the budget. Actually, the budget was balanced from slowing down the rate of spending and the enormous growth in the tax base, with taxable income increasing by 91%.

        As I mentioned in the other post, any increase in marginal tax rates will be a pittance against the ongoing deficit, which since 2000 has been driven by the $2 Trillion increase in spending on Social Programs. I agree with you, there is no free lunch.

      • Judith misspoke regarding calling it the tea party movement. Everything else was correct.

        Largely what balanced the budget during the Clinton years was the economic activity associated with the dot com bubble that burst in 2000.

      • VictorvAdams

        The Tea Party was invented right after BO won the WH in 2008. And yes, Clinton worked well with a R Congress.

    • “And what country can preserve it’s liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as to facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure.” https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/tree-liberty-quotation

      Despite Everatt’s Wikipedia erudition – the Tea Party end game was engineered by Rich Fink – what an uncompromising name – on behalf of Charles Koch from the 1980’s. Everatt’s unblinking reiteration of the appellation small hands on the other hand is more the product of small brains motivated by an unwavering adherence to a leftist cult he imagines he can advance by being boorishly disparaging.

      As one insider tells it – and this can be independently verifies – https://time.com/secret-origins-of-the-tea-party/

      Antifa claim a longer history – and there is little doubt about their ideological origins.

      e.g. https://arsenalpulp.com/Books/T/The-Anti-Capitalist-Resistance-Comic-Book

      Or their behaviour that has in recent times been broadly encouraged by progressives. I note this morning that Hollywood is ‘shocked’ at recent events.

      “Antifascists call such actions defensive. Hate speech against vulnerable minorities, they argue, leads to violence against vulnerable minorities. But Trump supporters and white nationalists see antifa’s attacks as an assault on their right to freely assemble, which they in turn seek to reassert. The result is a level of sustained political street warfare not seen in the U.S. since the 1960s. A few weeks after the attacks in San Jose, for instance, a white-supremacist leader announced that he would host a march in Sacramento to protest the attacks at Trump rallies. Anti-Fascist Action Sacramento called for a counterdemonstration; in the end, at least 10 people were stabbed.” https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/the-rise-of-the-violent-left/534192/

      “For they sow the wind and they shall reap the whirlwind.” Pacify them in the light of Jefferson’s words – whatever side – with armed enforcement of the rule of law.

      • “The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants.”

        It may take more patriotic blood than most people can imagine, particularly as modern day tyrants will certainly consider Jeffersonian warnings to be dead relics that have no need to be heeded.

        The Trump-era political insurgency is being rapidly reclassified from supremacist to terroristic, and America already has a template for dealing with that threat. Look forward to War on Terror 2.0, but instead of Homeland Security being in the rear it will be the front line. I don’t think the tyrants will be celebrating the insights of Jefferson so much as their own foresight in having most of the apparatus required to fight such a war already in place.

    • joe - the non economist

      VictoryAdam comment – “The Tea Party was invented right after BO won the WH in 2008. And yes, Clinton worked well with a R Congress.”

      I will add that the single most effective anti-poverty program since FDR administration was “ending welfare as we know it” which Clinton was eventually accepted after being pushed by the R congress & Newt.

      Progressives and public sector employees are dead set against anything that actually helps the people they claim to want to help.

  3. After all has been said and done RE the Electoral College activities, one fact remains. It isn’t really the Biden Administration. IMO he is just an intermediary puppet. Whether by senility, corruption, or something else; Harris is the real President here and I predict she will be formally President before 2 years are up. At one time during the Primary, she was the top pick for liberal donors. They have simply found a different path after she turned out to be too radical to win outright.

    • I’m just so happy Bernie Sanders will become the chair of the senate budget committee. For some strange reason the stock market loves it too.
      Who would have guessed that Modern Monetary Theory and Capitalism work so well together?

      • “MMT proponents argue that governments can spend as necessary on all desirable causes – reducing unemployment, green energy, better healthcare and education – without worrying about paying for it with higher taxes or increased borrowing. Instead, they can pay using new money from their central bank. The only limit, according to this view, is if inflation starts to rise, in which case the solution is to increase taxes.” https://theconversation.com/modern-monetary-theory-the-rise-of-economists-who-say-huge-government-debt-is-not-a-problem-141495

        MMT is a neo-Keynesian orthodoxy in which governments can spend as much as they like as long as there is spare capacity in economies. It creates more money without necessarily printing it. This devalues currencies, diminishes savings and makes imports more expensive. It depends in getting the timing right. Something that no government is capable of. Ultimately low interest rates and high inflation require increased taxation. The alternative is to have more stability in prices and interest rates across the business cycle with modest but reliable economic growth.

        Following the crash of 2008 governments embarked on bailout and stimulus programs that were vaguely Keynesian but were poorly targeted and created an immense debt overhang that persists. The Covid crisis has amplified the problem. Cutting interest rates, deficit spending and quantitative easing all result in an increase in money supply which cause price bubbles in economies. Increasing taxation to control asset bubbles push economies into collapse.

        In robust democracies we may argue for laws and tax regimes as we see fit – but not everything is up for grabs if we are holding out for economic stability and growth. Economic stability is best served with government at about 25% of GDP, price stability through management of interest rates on overnight cash markets and money supply, balanced government budgets, effective prudential oversight, effective and uncorrupted enforcement of fair law and a commitment to free and open trade.

        https://watertechbyrie.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/jrnlcovercropped.jpg

        Economics is a networked, nonlinear system – a map would look something like this only vastly more complex and multi-layered. It is made up of individual players who can interact with each other, with corporations and with government. It is fuelled by sweat and tears and is vulnerable to fear and greed. The key to managing fear and greed is to avoid bubbles and the inevitable bust.

    • The way I remember progressive commentary from my more-left Facebook friends, Harris was too pro-police for them, so they went for Sanders. She wasn’t considered as much of a progressive by those who I know who called themselves progressives.

    • > Is this stuff being taken seriously?

      Well, by some people it is.

      And generally from a cohort somewhat likely to hang at climate “skeptic” websites (i.e., rightwing fringe Trump supporters.)

  4. yes, the violence was appalling. A variety of what I take to be extreme right wing commentators have claimed that the protestors were deliberately let in to the Capitol as a means of discrediting Trump further and ensuring his complaints were not aired at the official count

    This seems typical

    http://themostimportantnews.com/questions-about-the-chaos-at-the-capitol-that-desperately-need-to-be-answered/

    This would have to be a massive conspiracy, as would the actual vote being ‘stolen’. Is this stuff being taken seriously?

    tonyb

    • The lack of security to prevent the breach of the capital is a classic “let it happen on purpose” tactic. The same tactic was used by FDR. It was later revealed he had advanced warning (intercepted messages) the Japanese were going to attack. FDR needed the Pearl Harbor tragedy to galvanize a reluctant nation to war. Trump’s objectives were far more sinister.

      • I know the conspiracy about FDR has been around for generations but I wouldn’t put much faith in the theories. There was a lot of bungling by the military and others and there were warnings that the Japanese were going to attack, but as far as exactly where and when I’ve never seen credible evidence that he knew in advance. He gets a pass. My parents and grandparents never did give him one.

        Even though I’m a conservative, I believe for a lot of reasons, he was our greatest President of the 20th Century.

        Just as an aside, he and Churchill repeatedly took unbelievable risks crossing the Atlantic (and Pacific by FDR) by ships and planes during the War, and at times with nearly the entire military leadership of their respective countries. Each had their close calls, that could have led to their deaths.

        An intercept could have led to a Yamamoto ending for either of them.

      • cerescokid,
        RE: FDR, My grand parents were hard core Charles Lindbergh followers beginning back in the late 1920s. They were in the original America First movement which was staunchly non-interventionist and shared a number of features with the modern Trump foreign and trade policy. My Uncle was named Lindy in honor of Lindbergh “Lucky Lindy” popular nick name. Too bad Trump wasn’t more like Lindbergh – Luck Lindy was a very moral and patriotic man.

      • Chris Morris

        jack smith
        IIRC, Lindbergh fathered a number of children after the war to several women in Germany while married to Ann Morrow. He refused to be named on the birth certificates and wouldn’t publicly acknowledge their existence. That doesn’t seem very moral to me.

      • Chris,
        I stand corrected. I retract endorsing Charles Lindbergh’s morals (unless he’s a secret Mormon(joke)). As a cherished American hero I’m not surprised those elements of his private life have been downplayed. He was quite impressed by the Germans but was blind to the dangers of their ideology. Made up for it later by his contributions to the war effort but his political future was over by then. I have also read he supported the emerging eugenics movement but it was a bit murky being clouded by arguments of “medically humane” treatment of decedents of the mentally challenged.
        Idiot – Severe learning disability IQ= 0 to 50
        Imbecile – Moderate learning disability IQ = 25 to 50
        Moron or Feeble Minded IQ = 50 to 70.
        I think Google and Facebook use a similar scale to target their advertising.

      • joe - the non economist

        While there was tremendous amounts of info that japan was going to attack Pearl harbor, the ability to put all the pieces together beyond the intelligence apparatus to ascertain the “when Where & how”.

        While there a a lot of things FDR did work, (his approach to the depression prolonged it needlessly), he did several things correctly
        A) there was two competing labor movements; socialism vs unionism. (top down vs bottom up – sound familiar). FDR favored the union movement so that the communist/socialim movement didnt gain the foothold that was emerging in europe (pre ww2)
        B) he did recognize the dangers of facism and imperial japan
        c) the march of dimes was promoted by FDR as part of the fight against polio

    • climatereason, it most certainly would not have had to been a “massive conspiracy.”

      Let’s imagine how it might work. Let’s suppose that a couple of really high rollers get together and talk about how to counter Trump and his rally. Let’s listen in:

      Big John: OK, maybe we turn the tide on the bastard … maybe we actually let them into the capitol building and get photos of them trashing the place.

      Joe: Great idea! Jim [fictitious, made-up names for illustrative purposes] you know Captain Bob of the Capitol police, don’t you?

      Jim: sure do.

      Then why don’t you have a drink with him and talk things through, feel him out easy at first, just a nibble, see if he goes along, and if he bites let him know that we’ll be pushing for a big promotion for him if we can pull this off? Ralph, since you know DC chief of police, you talk to him, make sure he has a light touch that day.

      Later….

      Jim reporting back, with Bob: Bob says not a problem, he gets it. He’s talked to a few of his people and they’re in agreement. Says he’s got it all covered.

      Bob: this won’t be a problem, we have key people in key places.

      Big John: OK, great, we’re covered. You didn’t tell them what this is about, did you Bob?

      Bob: No, sir. We only have a few folks on board, and they understand that the orders are coming from the top, above me, out of my hands, etc., let’s just play it by that book and get this over with. They understand that this is the way we’re doing it because we want to keep the bulk of our forces for the evening, when we expect rioting and burning. That’s the line, anyhow.

      Ralph: The police chief understands that we want to handle this our way. He’s not asking questions– a good soldier. I let him know that we’d be appreciative. He gets it.

      Big John: Great. Good work, boys, let’s see what happens with this “wild” rally. It’ll be wild alright. Let’s have a drink!
      _________

      Mainstream media on day of rally: Protesters Storm Capitol Building, Threaten Congress While Voting in Session!

      • You have an extra tinfoil hat I can borrow?

      • Before the crowd entered the capital, I heard C-Span reporters speculating why the police had been given a non engagement order. The best they could come up with was that the police did not want to excite the protestors. And there is the removal of the barricades.

    • Think of the risk a superior officer would be taking to issue orders to allow the protestors into the capital. They’d be risking that every one of their charges would just accept the order to allow a treasonous riot to take place. Not one would provide evidence of the treasonous orders. Not one would blow the whistle.

      And the penalty for treason is….

      But of course, we all know that all those officers in law enforcement are diehard leftwing commies, so they’d be more than willing to take the risks to overthrow Trump and steal the election.

      • Officers would simply be following orders. No blame. Whoever gave the order might even have had a good reason. We don’t know. But once again, the police do not just arbitrarily decide to abandon their charge. One thing we do know, from looking at the video, is that the police DID in fact let the protesters in, without any resistance whatsoever. There was no fight. They just moved the gates and let the protesters waltz in, even walking alongside them. You can see for yourself. You’re the one trying to rationalize this bald fact away. Why it happened is another question, but it did NOT happen because the police, all at once, all together, decided to be chummy with the rioters who were threatening the building. It was obviously an order from someone who was in charge of that group of policemen. Whoever gave the order might have been incredibly stupid, yes. Or, he might have been following orders himself. We don’t know. Maybe there was a perfectly innocent explanation for this that we don’t know. But, it happened, and it was an order from someone in charge, you can bet on that.

        You really are terribly innocent, aren’t you, Josh? Sheltered much?

    • “Hanlon’s razor is a principle or rule of thumb that states, ‘never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity’.”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

    • what ‘violence’?
      Just like lefties a million times, maga stormed the capitol.
      Nothing was broken, there was no grafiti, no fires….
      Unlike the similar incidents by the left.
      Stop gaslighting.

    • I haven’t seen that much footage, but I’m not sure anything I have seen could be called ‘appalling violence’. By the standard of many protests it looked fairly sedentary – mostly just pushing and shoving. I haven’t seen any beatings, rampaging wanton destruction, fire starting or stuff usually associated with angry out-of-control mobs.

    • What ever happened in Washington it wasn’t at all like the storming of the Bastille or the Winter Palace.

    • “yes, the violence was appalling.” – As wrong as it was to invade the Capitol, this was the least violent “uprising” I’ve ever seen. Maybe I’m not looking at the right videos, but I didn’t see any one being clubbed (an Antifa specialty) or Molotov Cocktails being thrown.

      I am not trying to justify it. These idiots did immense damage to the conservative cause. I think they did little damage to democracy or the government, other than that resulting from a political loss for the right. But they were wrong – wrong to trespass, wrong to shut down Congress. And a few broke windows, and did other idiotic stunts like leaving a note on Pelosi’s desk, or in one case, stealing a lectern – which some wag noted was “taking a stand” – a little humor in this unfortunate situation.

      But “violence was appalling?” Where the hell have you been the last year? Under a bed?

      • If you want a thorough discussion of the motivation of the media in the internet world, read Matt Taibbi’s “Hate Inc.: Why Today’s Media Makes Us Despise One Another” https://www.amazon.com/Hate-Inc-Todays-Despise-Another/dp/1949017257 Taibbi, as you probably know, is a top Lefty journalist of the old school. He is no longer welcome on mainstream television. He publishes now as an independent journalist on Substack https://taibbi.substack.com/ . Interesting the number of journalists who have left their homes and moved to Substack. Pulitzer Prize winner, Glenn Greenwald, left the “the Intercept”. He was a co-founder and creator of what he believed would be an open forum. He left because the other editors insisted on censoring an article he wanted to publish that was in part critical of Biden. https://greenwald.substack.com/p/my-resignation-from-the-intercept. On the other side, Andrew Sullivan joined substack because the “New York Magazine” refused to publish an article critical of the BLM and the associated riots. So it goes.

      • @CMS “read Matt Taibbi”

        He’s not the only Leftist journalist with integrity. I would also count Glen Greenwald in that number, and often Krystal Ball as well as a few ex.TYT staff who departed that organisation because it wasn’t radical enough for them, lol! They are all miles away from me on the political spectrum, but they are not lying scumbags and so a) earn my respect, and b) are worth listening to. I like hearing what people with a very different slant to me have to say, as long as they are not toads!

        As Taibbi and Greenwald demonstrate, it is not possible to be honest and work for a mainstream liberal media company because they are intellectually and morally corrupt. As such, they don’t employ journalists – only wh*res.

        One of the most surreal sights in journalism is Greenwald on Tucker Carlson’s show where he makes point after point, and Tucker just sits there nodding saying, “I agree, I agree, I agree.”

    • Curious George

      Not only did Trump disappoint badly, but far more importantly, so did all big media. They don’t inform any more; they just editorialize. They suppress anything that’s not in their line – like Hunter Biden’s laptop.

      Without a source of reliable information, the conspiracy theories bloom.

    • Tony – If you search jim2 on this post, you will find links the to State of Georgia where voting documentation can be found. One big issue is that the only signature verification for mail-in ballots requested by mail was that the application signature match the external return envelope containing the ballot. That person may or may not have been on the voter rolls or even a citizen of Georgia. You don’t have to believe anyone here if you read the rules for yourself!!!

      There are other potential problems Georgia and other states as well. If the losing side has no confidence in the integrity of the election, obviously it could get really ugly.

  5. To balance the link above, here is an article from the Daily Mail firmly pointing the finger for the violence on the far right

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9122495/The-violent-pro-Trump-mob-stormed-Capitol.html

    tonyb

  6. It’s a whole new world:

    https://youtu.be/SpI4ZpV9bZw

  7. It is what it is. Trump is out. Biden/Harris are in.

    Sometimes the comments are the most interesting. Here’s one that I think is spot on: “My dad worked for both DOD and Homeland Security. You can’t just take over a federal building, and do what we saw today without some help from the inside. This was orchestrated by members of the Senate, and members of the capital police.” This from following Jim2’s link.

    We did see police letting protesters through, didn’t we? This could only happen if the order was given to let them through. Why?

    Was that the plan all along? How do you turn the tide on a president who thinks his supporters are going to pressure Congress in a massive rally? What would the optics be, to see rebels in Pelosi’s office, and in the Speaker’s seat? I would say that most of us are appalled at this. Would we have been appalled if the rioters had then proceeded to burn buildings in Washington (which, unlike the BLM protesters who burnt buildings, they did not do)? Maybe not, since we allowed burning and looting to go on for so long this summer and took it in stride– just people expressing themselves, right? But not if it’s the side that’s against the mainstream media?

    Anyhow, I’m done, I’m tired of this. No sense arguing anymore, it’s over, at least for now.

    • Don –

      > This could only happen if the order was given to let them through. Why?

      That’s perfect. You set up the construct based on the assumption that a conspiracy is the only possible explanation.

      • And if course, there’s no refuting it. Just because there’s no actual evidence of orders being given from on high to let the protestors in, doesn’t mean that such orders weren’t given. And of course, there’s no way it could have happened had such orders not been issued.

      • The Mueller probe of 2 years and 35 million dollars was based on the conspiracy theory that Trump could only be elected with Russian assistance.

      • No, Joshua, I make my statement through an understanding of how things work, based partly on my time in the US military and partly as a member of corporate America, and partly as a member of “the working class.” The police do not do things just because they unilaterally decide what’s best, trust me on that. It’s a top-down organizational structure.

        We can see the video, and we can see that the police are acting in unison. I’m not assuming a conspiracy; I’m stating a fact: orders were given. Anyone who’d been in any organization like the police or the military would understand that. “By whom” and “why” are other questions. You’re the one making assumptions about what I’m saying. I am NOT saying there was a conspiracy, but I am saying that the facts look shaky to me, and the optics of Trump supporters in the capitol building really would be too good to be true. It IS possible that the plan was to get rioters into the building. I’m not sure how probable that was or if it there even was a plan.

      • Don –

        > I’m stating a fact: orders were given.

        That’s beautiful.

        Because you deduced that it happened, therefore it’s a fact.

        There couldn’t possibly be a better example of how you k iw the election was stolen. Evidence be damned.

        Fortunately, relatively few of the “working class,” the military, law enforcement, or the corporate world share your conspiracy-addled method of reasoning. Otherwise, we’d really be in a whole lot of trouble.

      • Matthew R Marler

        Joshua: >Don –

        This could only happen if the order was given to let them through. Why?

        That’s perfect. You set up the construct based on the assumption that a conspiracy is the only possible explanation.

        Such an order would not have required a “conspiracy”, merely a command decision for the police to act weakly — as in Minneapolis and Seattle this past summer. The questions remain: who was in charge, and why were the barriers not enforced?

      • Don –

        The main problem with your wacky theories (or should I say “facts”), is that apparently you never even bother to consider whether they’re even remotely plausible.

      • > Such an order would not have required a “conspiracy”,

        Of course it’s a conspiracy theory. It involved multiple people and multiple levels of the chain of command, all agreeing to COMMIT TREASON without a single one of them blowing the whistle.

        Keeping in mind that the people conspiring together would be committing treason, according to this theory, to advance commie/leftie/whatever goals when we know that it’s likely that the people comprising this putative cabal would be more right-leaning and likely strong Trump supporters.

        They’d be willing to risk the penalties of being caught committing treason. And for what? To delay the inevitable? You have low enough respect for law enforcement that you think they’d just en masse follow orders to commit treason? And on top of having ideological unwillingness to do it, they’d be willing to risk their futures, perhaps even their lives, to commit treason and never blow the whistle?

        It’s a nutty conspiracy theory. No more, no less. It’s hilarious that y’all try to work your way around that.

        Whenever you’re tempted to go along with a nutty conspiracy theory, just take a little time to evaluate the probability. You’ll be doing yourself a favor.

      • And keep in mind, that Don has zero evidence to support the wacky conspiracy theory that he considers to be “fact.”

        He has a very short clip of a completely un-contextualized video where any number of events might have come before or after. He’s interviewed exactly zero of the peope involved. He’s done exactly zero investigation. That’s not actual evidence that supports his made up explanations. It’s like Willis looking at curves on his computer screen and saying it’s a fact that population fatality deom COVID will have a “hard limit” of 0.085%

        There are any number of potential explanations, yet he think that his deduction for the only possible explanation of the clip is “fact.”

        That’s another reason why it fits the characteristics of a conspiracy theory. Because it’s where someone declares as “fact,” as the only potential exoplanation, an explanation where they’ve dreamed up after having done zero investigation – and declaring that. O other explanation is possible.

        That’s why the whole “stolen votes” nonsense is a conspiracy theory on the same level. And what solidifies it even further is that when investigations were conducted, the implications of those investigations were considered immaterial to the convictions of the conspiracy- addled about the certain “facts.”

        You boyz are hilarious.

      • Thank you, matthew. That was my simple point, exactly. Joshua is blowing this up. The video says what it says, that’s all, and there’s no disputing what it’s showing us.

      • The capitol police were vastly outnumbered, and there is plenty of video showing violent clashes with rioters. And one cop now has died. There is also email/Twitter exchanges among extremists with plans to storm the capitol.

    • “You can’t just take over a federal building, and do what we saw today without some help from the inside. ”

      I think Hanlon’s Razor applies: ” “never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity””

      On a more serious note… I don’t think anyone expected this. Trump rallies are usually very peaceful, and Trump supporters tend to be law abiding, supporting the police, etc. In this case, something happened – we don’t know what – but some people pushed more than was expected, or whatever.

      I just watched a video where police let a bunch of demonstrators in – removed barricades – but they may have felt overwhelmed. I saw no violence in that.

      So let’s see what happened. But again, keep Hanlon’s Razor in mind. It us pretty reliable.

      • Joe - the non epidemiologist

        Concur – Trump supporters and conservatives in general rarely rioting of any sort. contrast with the typical left wing/progressive peaceful protest .

        Note from Steve Mcintyre twitter feed – “Biden just called pro Trump protesters “domestic terrorists”, but he and Obama called these jihadi head chopping pigs in Syria “freedom rebels” and “peaceful protesters”..

        Similar comments from Biden and most every leftist all summer

      • > Note from Steve Mcintyre twitter feed – “Biden just called pro Trump protesters “domestic terrorists”, but he and Obama called these jihadi head chopping pigs in Syria “freedom rebels” and “peaceful protesters”..

        -snip-

        raham called for the prosecution and imprisonment of every person who forced their way into the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, people whom Trump had sympathized with. Graham dismissed them as “domestic terrorists.”

        At the Republican National Committee, communications director Michael Ahrens released a statement Wednesday on Twitter also calling the riot “domestic terrorism” and denouncing as “unfounded conspiracy theories” the false claims of election fraud peddled by Trump that motivated the attack.

  8. Speaker Lindsay Hoyle has written to Nancy Pelosi to express his “shock at last night’s events in the Capitol”:

    “Dear Nancy

    I just wanted to express my shock at last night’s events in the Capitol, and to offer you my solidarity against such unprovoked violence.

    Seeing your office trashed in that way and its occupation by one of the rioters was particularly outrageous. I am just so relieved you were not hurt, although I can only imagine how violated you must feel after having a protester at your desk.

    I hope none of your personal effects were damaged, particularly the lovely picture you so proudly showed me of Churchill’s address to the joint session of US Congress in 1941, which was witnessed by your father.

    Suffice to say, you are in my thoughts and prayers – and I look forward to welcoming you to the UK later this year.

    With warmest wishes Lindsay
    Sir Lindsay Hoyle Speaker of the House of Commons”

  9. What’s going on in Washington is like the late 1960’s and early 1970’s, only without the good music of that era.

  10. On the bright side it’s nice that rioting and mob rule and occupying buildings is bad again.

  11. I haven’t seen anyone call this election better than senior Mediaite columnist and podcaster John Ziegler:

    https://www.mediaite.com/opinion/10-reasons-trump-fans-are-still-convinced-he-is-going-to-win-and-why-they-are-likely-mistaken/

    10 Reasons Trump Fans Are Still Convinced He Is Going to Win, and Why They Are Likely Mistaken
    By John Ziegler Nov 1st, 2020, 11:15 am

    This is 2016 All Over Again: Trump fans see amazing similarities between the circumstances just before Trump’s miracle election victory and what the situation is now. They therefore assume that events will repeat that same path from this point. However, this time there is no Hillary Clinton, no James Comey, no independent voters curious about what Trump might be like as president, and no Democratic complacency. There is also obviously the Covid pandemic which has the news media claiming Trump is somehow responsible for over 230,000 deaths this year.

    Polls Are Meaningless: To them, the polling industry totally discredited itself in 2016 (even though many of the polls, especially nationally, were quite accurate). Polls, except for the ones showing Trump doing well, are, at best, totally off, and, at worst, a propaganda tool intended to diminish the morale of Trump voters. To be clear, the polling error this time around would have to be worse than it was in 2016 for Trump to repeat his improbable win, despite the entire survey industry being acutely aware of the mistakes made in the last cycle.

    For the record, there are SOME Trump super fans who are open to the idea that he could lose. And, in case you hadn’t already figured it, they already know EXACTLY why that would be…

    Voter fraud!

  12. Jim Eichstedt

    Just a few years ago when Walker was governor of Wisconsin, democrats, anarchists, students, teachers, etc., stormed the state capitol building and held it for days – camping in it, smoking weed, defecating. Capitol police thought that was OK, they didn’t like Walker, either. Republicans were publicly threatened – in front of their children! Media regarded it as a circus, a demonstration that was justified because Walker wanted limitations on collective bargaining that held communities hostage to teachers pay demands.

    • Precisely! The breathless sermonising about the violation of the sanctity of the Capitol building is absurd. Technically-speaking, the buildings the protesters invaded belong to them. If they are just making a point, and did not engage in gratuitous violence and wanton destruction (which seems to be the case), then good for them.

      I’m sure many of the people getting their knickers in a twist have participated in student protests – where the invasion of the President’s office is absolutely compulsory, as is the occupation of the administration buildings! A politically disciplined attack is where you target the specific thing that ails you. Going on the rampage smashing things up and burning stuff down is more in the style of a rabid mob of thugs.

      Whether right or wrong, many people think the political system in which they participate is rigged. This isn’t just about the suspicion of election fraud, but a broader sense of the chasm between the elites and their servants and ordinary people. Even Judith’s Tweet being blocked is a small example of this – those who are fully franchised to participate in public discourse, and those who can be casually disenfranchised. If the system is rigged, few other options are open to you except direct action.

    • They did it first.

    • So this is what we’ve got.

      The single most powerful and influential public official in the country inspires and eggs on “demonstrators” who force their way into the Capital, and the most that the “law and order” crowd can muster is “They did it first,” or “They do it too,” or “They do it worse.”

      The level of violence was significant but not huge. That’s not the point.

      The point is that we have been reduced to the stage where the most Trump supporters can muster is a hate-inspired and insipid juvenile reaction. They aren’t unique in that regard. Such a reaction is widespread on both sides.

      My main question is whether this kind of behavior will off, somehow get better, or continue in the current trend. My Magic 8-ball says “Outlook not good.”

  13. “List of rallies and protest marches in Washington, D.C.”
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rallies_and_protest_marches_in_Washington,_D.C.

    The list is long and diverse. This is what we do.

  14. Everett F Sargent

    Conspiracy Theory Addiction
    https://www.addictioncenter.com/drugs/conspiracy-theory-addiction/

    “A conspiracy theory can be defined as the belief that a secret, but influential organization or individual is responsible for a circumstance or event. People often think that these beliefs are rare or sometimes absurd, but research shows they may be more common than we thought. A study found that about 50% of Americans believe in at least one conspiracy theory. Conspiracy theories come in all forms, but most theories involve political and social events. Some examples include the belief that certain celebrities are immortal vampires, and controversial topics such as the belief that a small group of people are planning to overthrow the government. Often, one theory will have accompanying and sometimes contradictory conspiracy theories which can be dangerous if not challenged. On the other hand, it can be noted that some conspiracy theories have been proven to be true. With the increased popularity of conspiracies and exposure to information, it is possible to harm your mental health and relationships by developing a conspiracy theory addiction.

    Conspiracy theory addiction is a behavioral addiction that can have a hidden impact on the way you perceive events and has been linked to having more negative attitudes. Rather than helping one cope with their negative feelings, the belief in conspiracy theories can create a cycle of distrust and disempowerment. As a person encounters different sources, it is important to be able to analyze the information and distinguish between false theories and real threats.

    People who strongly believe in conspiracy theories and become addicted may experience some of the following:

    – Feeling anxious or fearful for no particular reason.
    – Feeling a loss of control.
    – A need to make sense of complex topics or unrelated events, even with little or no topical knowledge.
    – Low self-esteem.
    – Strong urge to make connections between a series of unrelated events or behaviors.
    – Belief in paranormal explanations for scientific phenomenon.
    – A sense of not belonging or isolation.
    – A great alienation, disengagement, or disaffection from society

    If the presence of the previous feelings and behaviors significantly impact a person’s ability to function in their daily lives, they may have a conspiracy theory addiction.”

    See also DSM-5 and paranoid personality disorder which Trump has along with narcissistic personality disorder, antisocial personality disorder, pathological lying and psychological projection. Dementia also likely within the next 4-8 years.

    • Everett F Sargent: Conspiracy Theory Addiction

      very droll. Applicable to the theory that the Trump campaign conspired with Russian agents to win the 2016 election?

    • How very Soviet. If you don’t buy the malarky lamestream media explanation or the state explanation for things, you are mentally ill.
      Nobody buys this kind of ridiculousness anymore, although it is a very powerful method to discredit any narrative one deems inconvenient.

  15. Trump called for a peaceful demonstration to cheer for the Republicans to object to the state-certified electors. When some of the demonstrators turned violent, he asked them to be peaceful, respect the law, and go home. The Congress confirmed the Election of Joe Biden, and Pres Trump promised to support a smooth transition. Trump still believes that he won the true votes and the election was stolen from him.

    The nice thing about having Democratic majorities in both Houses of Congress is that the fractures in the Democratic party will become obvious. As they did in 2009-2010, the Democrats will avoid passing any reform of the immigration laws. Other questions don’t have such clear (to me, anyway) prognostications: will the Democrats in the House of Representatives vote themselves out of office in 2022 by passing an income tax increase? In campaigning, Pres-Elect Biden put that high on his priorities list. Will he submit the Paris Climate Accord and Iraq Agreement to the Senate and push for their ratification?

    • > Trump called for a peaceful demonstration

      That’s beautiful.

    • Matthew,
      I am sorry but that leaves many of Trump’s actions out and is many bridges too far. Donald Trump did not call for violence, but his insistence that he won the election in spite of all evidence to the contrary has certainly fueled the paranoia that led to this behavior. He bears much of the moral responsibility for what happened yesterday.

      • There are tons of evidence that the election was stolen, all being ignored! https://img1.wsimg.com/blobby/go/be36dc6d-0df4-4c20-addf-fca72be46150/The%20Art%20of%20the%20Steal%201.5.21%20FINAL.pdf

        Just because the mainstream repeats over and over and over “baseless” doesn’t mean that it really is baseless.

      • I do not follow the mainstream media. I follow the evidence presented in the court cases.

      • Here Don –

        This is about as plausible as your nonsense – and employs exactly the same quality of thinking.

        -snip-

        HOMEPAGE
        HOME MILITARY & DEFENSE
        Some among America’s military allies believe Trump deliberately attempted a coup and may have had help from federal law-enforcement officials
        Mitch Prothero
        Jan 7, 2021, 8:58 AM

        trump thanksgiving
        President Donald Trump at the White House on November 26. Erin Schaff – Pool/Getty Images
        Multiple European security officials told Insider that President Donald Trump appeared to have tacit support among US federal agencies responsible for securing the Capitol complex in Wednesday’s coup attempt.
        Insider is reporting this information because it illustrates the serious repercussions of Wednesday’s events: Even if they are mistaken, some among America’s international military allies are now willing to give credence to the idea that Trump deliberately tried to violently overturn an election and had help from some federal law-enforcement agents.
        “We train alongside the US federal law enforcement to handle these very matters, and it’s obvious that large parts of any successful plan were just ignored,” one source told us.
        Visit Business Insider’s homepage for more stories.

        The supporters of President Donald Trump who stormed the Capitol on Wednesday to stop the ratification of President-elect Joe Biden’s election victory were attempting a violent coup that multiple European security officials said appeared to have at least tacit support from aspects of the US federal agencies responsible for securing the Capitol complex.

        Insider spoke with three officials on Thursday morning: a French police official responsible for public security in a key section of central Paris, and two intelligence officials from NATO countries who directly work in counterterrorism and counterintelligence operations involving the US, terrorism, and Russia.

        They said the circumstantial evidence available pointed to what would be openly called a coup attempt in any other nation. None were willing to speak on the record because of the dire nature of the subject.

        Read more: Secret Service experts are speculating in group chats about how Trump might be hauled out of the White House if he won’t budge on Inauguration Day

        While they did not furnish evidence that federal agency officials facilitated the chaos, Insider is reporting this information because it illustrates the scale and seriousness of Wednesday’s events: America’s international military and security allies are now willing to give serious credence to the idea that Trump deliberately tried to violently overturn an election and that some federal law-enforcement agents — by omission or otherwise — facilitated the attempt.

        ‘Today I am briefing my government that we believe with a reasonable level of certainty that Donald Trump attempted a coup’
        One NATO source set the stage, using terms more commonly used to describe unrest in developing countries.

        “The defeated president gives a speech to a group of supporters where he tells them he was robbed of the election, denounces his own administration’s members and party as traitors, and tells his supporters to storm the building where the voting is being held,” the NATO intelligence official said.

        “The supporters, many dressed in military attire and waving revolutionary-style flags, then storm the building where the federal law-enforcement agencies controlled by the current president do not establish a security cordon, and the protesters quickly overwhelm the last line of police.

        https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-attempted-coup-federal-law-enforcement-capitol-police-2021-1?amp

      • joe - the non legal expert

        dougbadgero | January 7, 2021 at 6:52 pm |-
        “I do not follow the mainstream media. I follow the evidence presented in the court cases.”

        Without addressing the validity or substantiation of fraud in the 2020 presidential election, providing proof sufficient to overcome the hurdle in court is very difficult. Two good examples are the Gore Bush district court case and the NY 22 congressional district race

        In the bush Gore case, the district court was the only court that got the correct answer for the correct legal reasoning. Gore being the plaintiff had to present evidence in the during the evidenciary phase of the trial . While the gore team made very solid arguments regarding the evidence, no actual evidence was actually presented. The FL SC overruled the district court and basically said, we assume the evidence exists.

        NY 22nd district is does have a lot of evidence (each ballot, post marks etc). In this case, the volume is much smaller which makes is much easier to look at each disputed ballot.

        So while there may be substantial fraud in the 2020 presidential vote, the evidence has been sufficient to overcome the initial hurdle.

        FWIW – my personal belief is that mail in voting procedure enabled a lot of vote harvesting. Once a ballot has been deposited, there is no way to ascertain if it was fraudulent.

      • dougbadgero: Donald Trump did not call for violence,

        As I said. I do not think that worry about the election qualifies as “paranoia”, though I think that the “preponderance of the evidence” supports the contrary claim that the Democrats outhustled the Republicans, especially in the areas where Democratic complacency narrowly cost HRC the Electoral College in 2016.

        Trump always or almost always buries his good points in abrasive language, the worst possibly being his comment about “****hole” countries. I have not seen or heard a call to assault the Capitol in the text of his speech or his delivery.

        The “assault”, such as it was, was instigated by a few Antifans and a few Trumpsters; it was also resisted by the same mixed audience, with what might be called “disappointing” results.

        On the whole I think that the Bonus March of 1932 (repeated on smaller scale in 1933), also an attempt to influence government, was more momentous — especially the rather large army mobilization that was employed to evict.them (including McArthur, Eisenhower, and Patton). The dangerous addition here was the President’s encouragement to the protestors to intimidate the Congress to challenge the Democratic Electors. I never doubted that Biden would win in the Congress and that Trump would leave office. The Bonus Marchers may have helped to remove Hoover from office, through the peaceful balloting that later occurred on schedule. Subsequently, they won awards of job offers and accelerated payment of their bonuses (over FDR’s veto). Crowds trying to pressure Congress peacefully (threatening to vote them out of office later) are not new, and that is what I thought Trump was calling for..

        War protestors in the ’60s and 70’s had a major impact in turning the Executive Branch away from full support of the US “side” in the war; helped elect an antiwar majority to Congress in 1968; and finally got their aim when Congress voted to deny funding to carry out resistance to the NVA invasion. They did not produce an assault on the Capitol, but their peaceful efforts were accompanied by bombings and murders.

    • “Trump called for a peaceful demonstration”

      It was shocking for me because originally assumed that Trump did exactly what you said but when I listened to his full speech he made all kinds of references to revolutionary war events (Bunker Hill) and said explicitly that the protestors were fighting for their country like they did in the past.

      IOW, the subtext of using violence to achieve aims was made extremely clear. That tape alone should be enough to convict Trump of sedition. It is disgusting.

      • Would it be sedition if another private citizen did it? If the answer is no, then the answer is no for Trump also. It is nonsense to argue that someone is guilty of sedition when they specifically suggested protests remain non violent. This hypocritical rhetoric doesn’t help.

      • “when they specifically suggested protests remain non violent”

        He did not say that in his remarks to the crowd before the event. If he did and it was not in the video I watched then that would change my assessment. Based on what I heard it was a clear call for violence without explicitly saying be violent. e.g. stuff like:

        “if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country any more … You’ll never take back our country with weakness.”

      • “Based on what I heard it was a clear call for violence without explicitly saying be violent. e.g. stuff like:

        “if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country any more … You’ll never take back our country with weakness.””

        Wow – what an imagination, or perhaps its just lack of experience. It is absolutely normal for politicians to call for fighting for a cause. “Fighting” can mean violence, but in this kind of context, it doesn’t. Otherwise, we’d have to arrest lots of politicians and other speakers on both sides of the aisle.

        Trump explicitly called for a peaceful demonstration at the Capitol. It’s in the rev dot com link posted above. In other words, he called for the same thing lots of demonstration speakers call for: marching to the Capitol, showing support, fighting for what is right, etc.

        Now, maybe he said something not at the link. If so, please provide it. But what you quoted above is normal rhetoric. It is rhetoric Trump has used since before he was elected, and hundreds and hundreds of peaceful rallies.

        At tis rally said: “We have come to demand that Congress do the right thing and only count the electors who have been lawfully slated, lawfully slated. I know that everyone here will soon be marching over to the Capitol building to peacefully and patriotically make your voices heard.”

        So put up or shut up, please.

        And by the way, I disagree with a lot of what Trump said, and those who entered the Capitol were very wrong. But unless someone can show me something more inciteful than normal political rhetoric, I’m not going to believe he “incited” an insurrection or a riot. So far, what I’m seeing is what has become boring and tedious: overreaction to Trump’s words and reading into them what is not there.

      • TimG ignores how words are used. Politicians use the word “fight” all the time, and in various contexts. TimG’s definition is politically motivated.

      • Rather than rely on your faulty and biased memory, show us where Trump incites a riot:

        https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/donald-trump-speech-save-america-rally-transcript-january-6

      • bigter guy

        I have skimmed through the very long speech you linked to.

        Is it actually the transcript of what he said, Word for word, or is it the speech he intended to give but subsequently perhaps embellished as he was talking?

        Was that the ONLY speech or did he give others to say the media or to another audience? It seems to be at variance with the speech Timg believes he heard, although as I say I skimmed the text rather than read every word in detail

        tonyb

      • meso –

        You make a good point. It was probably all just a coincidence.

      • Joshua
        You continue to beclown yourself. Do you not understand the difference between him bearing some moral responsibility and him breaking the law?

      • Doug –

        Come back with another analysis about the number of deaths in Sweden. You might want to find a way to bury this one:

        -snip-
        dougbadgero | November 26, 2020 at 12:03 pm | Reply

        >… Two day totals are about 40 during this second wave.

      • Doug –

        Take it up with Ted:

        > Cruz said he believes Trump’s rhetoric had contributed to the siege on the Capitol.

      • Your responses would be difficult to parody.

      • Climate reason, my understanding is that is a record of what Trump actually said, although I have not compared it to the video. It’s a rather mild speech in many ways, despite the delusions within.

      • Tony –

        Trump Tweeted out the following as his mob were in the Capitol, engaging in violence, screaming Pence’s name, and crushing cops in doors to get where Pence was:

        -snip-
        “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
        -snip-

        But don’t think that would deter the Trump apologists from flailing away, denying he had anything to do with the mob riot.

        It was all just a coincidence.

      • TimG you have to look at the timeline. Trump was in the middle of his speech 1 1/2 miles away when the Capital was breeched. So whatever he said there, no matter what the content, had nothing to do with the actions at the Capital

      • Everett F Sargent

        “Trump was in the middle of his speech 1 1/2 miles away when the Capital was breeched. So whatever he said there, no matter what the content, had nothing to do with the actions at the Capital”

        Wrong!

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/capitol-insurrection-visual-timeline/

        No one had a cell phone at that time, so how could they possibly hear the end of Trump’s speech. Not! Which ended shortly ended after 1:10 PM.

        1:00 PM An initial wave of protesters storms the outer barricade west of the Capitol building as senators and Vice President Pence walk to the House chamber.

        1:30 PM The crowd outside the building grows larger, eventually overtaking Capitol Police and making their way up the steps.

        Around 2:15 PM The pro-Trump mob breaches the Capitol, breaking windows and climbing inside the building, then opening doors for others to follow.

      • It is a mistake to minimize criminality at the Capitol. Or to impute prescience to Donald Trump. The video was taken down as it contained misinformation on the 2020 election. How do know that I wonder? I don’t.

        Another thing I didn’t know. I was mightily impressed to read in the transcript that the Donald started Space Force.

      • Sargent said to me about the timeline, about the timeline I laid out.
        “Wrong!

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/interactive/2021/capitol-insurrection-visual-timeline/

        No one had a cell phone at that time, so how could they possibly hear the end of Trump’s speech. Not! Which ended shortly ended after 1:10 PM.

        1:00 PM An initial wave of protesters storms the outer barricade west of the Capitol building as senators and Vice President Pence walk to the House chamber.”

        You quote the WP, How about this.”And while the Washington Post clumsily attempts to blame President Trump for the violence – despite the President calling for “peaceful” protests and the “cheering on” of Congressmen – their own article admits the “first wave of protesters arrived at the Capitol about 12:40pm.”

        President Trump’s speech didn’t conclude until 1:11pm, and with at least a 45-minute walk between the two locations with crowd-related delays, that would put the first people from Trump’s speech at Capitol Hill no earlier than 1:56pm – a full hour and sixteen minutes after troublemakers arrived.

        In fact, rioters who breached the perimeter would have had to leave before Trump’s speech even began (at 12pm precisely) to make it in time for the events as they are detailed by authorities.

        The Washington Post also states: “Sund’s outer perimeter on the Capitol’s west side was breached within 15 minutes,” meaning the Capitol was breached over an hour before Trump speech attendees could have even begun to arrive.” https://thenationalpulse.com/breaking/ex-capitol-police-chief-says-pelosi-mcconnells-sergeants-at-arms-refused-security-measures-while-new-timeline-proves-trump-incitement-claims-bogus/
        Whole lot more here, if you are interested. You are interested, aren’t you. But of course they were just listening to cell phones. That of course cause they were so interested in this speech that they didn’t want to be there.

  16. “If you are dismayed by Trumpism, don’t kid yourself that it will fade away if Donald Trump fails to win the Republican nomination. Trumpism is an expression of the legitimate anger that many Americans feel about the course that the country has taken, and its appearance was predictable. It is the endgame of a process that has been going on for a half-century: America’s divestment of its historic national identity.”

    Reading the whole thing is instructive
    https://www.aei.org/articles/trumps-america/

    Murray was a never-trumper before the primaries.

    Seeing the white underclass of the capitol siege, the black underclass elsewhere in politics, and the underclass in general appealed to with socialism, and the growing theme is the underclass.

    Were this about governance, solutions might have occurred.

    If this is about the separation of natural selection from civilization, the implications are serious:

    https://www.amazon.com/At-Our-Wits-End-Intelligent/dp/184540985X/ref=sr_1_2?crid=2MXOHWXN0MZZB&dchild=1&keywords=at+our+wit%27s+end&qid=1610033993&sprefix=at+our+wit%2Caps%2C220&sr=8-2

  17. Those with TDS believe this was about the man, Trump. For me, as a Trump supporter, it’s not about Trump per se. The big deal was his approach to running the country. It was his focus on putting the US first and as the US President, this is exactly how it should be. It was about trying his best to negotiate fair trade deals, encourage companies to bring jobs to the US, selective use of tariffs to equalize trade advantage, urging our allies to pay their fair share of defense expenses, a global warming skeptic … there’s a lot more.

    Trump is a man with flaws, but what man has no flaws (including women here:) )

    Probably most Trump supporters would agree with the above, but the point is, we don’t have to have Trump to be President again. We do need someone with Trump’s lights and general agenda.

  18. Here’s an interesting twist:

    Devices that looked like pipe bombs found near the headquarters offices for the Republican and Democratic National Committees during rioting at the nation’s Capitol building Wednesday have been determined to be “the real deal,” according to a senior federal law enforcement officer.

    Several IEDs, or improvised explosive devices, were found near the Capitol grounds, reports Fox News, and specifically, the devices near the headquarters offices were explosives that Washington, D.C., bomb squad officers disarmed.

    Acting Department of Homeland Security Secretary Ken Cuccinelli, who was on Fox News’ “America’s Newsroom” when the news broke, said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives is in charge of that investigation and that he can’t “relate” the explosives found near the headquarters to other items found near the Capitol.

    https://www.newsmax.com/us/pipe-bombs-cuccinelli-dnc-rnc/2021/01/07/id/1004631/

  19. Mark Steyn to Tucker Carlson:

    They’re blathering, people from the Vice President on down, saying these riots are not “who we are”. Have you switched on a TV since Memorial Day? This is exactly who we are.

    It’s OK to loot Macy’s, it’s OK to incinerate the precinct house in Minneapolis… but suddenly you expect the Capitol of the United States to be immune from this? Ifwe have equality before the law, a Wendy’s franchisee is expected to have his property rights as respected as the United States Congress…

    “Some groups have enjoyed a license to loot and burn at night…”

    We’ve got a completely bifurcated system…the less law that applies to one group the more microregulated the lives of the other group are.

    As for equality before the Media: A woman was killed in Congress, apparently shot by an agent of law enforcement. But on the news tonight, there were no candlelit vigils, no slo-mo replays. No demands for answers. It was the chaos that “led to her death”. It’s all in the phrasing.

    @TweetBrettMcDonald Cops shoot a woman and MSNBC calls the conservative mob “deadly”

    No memorials for deplorables.

    https://joannenova.com.au/2021/01/steyn-some-riots-are-ok-theres-been-a-complete-collapse-of-equality-before-the-law/

    • There is a real false equivalence in your argument.

      A random Wendy’s or Macy’s looted by mob is one thing. That’s bad.

      The Capitol in the middle of certifying an election with Senators, Representatives, and the Vice President invaded by an armed mob egged on by the President is another. That’s sedition.

      • Steyn is referring to a concept know as “Rule of Law.” Google it.

      • Were they armed? That’s a legit question, no snark. I have seen no footage that shows any of them brandishing a weapon.

        That said, as someone who has worked most of my life in a facility that has signs on the fences that basically say “if you breach this fence we will shoot you” I am surprised the body count wasn’t higher. I am glad it wasn’t, but I am still surprised.

      • @dougbadgero ““if you breach this fence we will shoot you”

        Perhaps it was one of those happy occasions where the police correctly judged there was no real threat.

        I have enough personal experience of dealing with the police to know there are some pretty nasty thugs in their ranks. Despite the portrayal of them collectively by the Floyd family lawyer and many others as an undifferentiated apparatus dedicated to the systematic genocide of young black men, I suspect most are very reluctant to actually shoot someone ‘in cold blood’ – by which I mean, when not under stress.

        Indeed, militaries discovered this embarrassing truth about their own troops more than a hundred years ago: Even on the battlefield, most soldiers will not shoot at all or will shoot to miss even in the face of the enemy unless they are convinced the person in their sights is an immediate danger to them. Whatever the training, it seems that most people are naturally hesitant to kill other people.

        In his latest vlog, Scott Adams said he’d raised the question on social media about why the young female protester was shot, and had been contacted by someone with knowledge of the police, military and security services who thought it very likely she was killed by an agent providing personal protection, rather than a soldier or police officer. Firstly, they are carefully selected so there is no question they will shoot, and secondly, they operate under a different set of rules – i.e. if you come within a certain distance and have no business being there, you’re going to be neutralised.

      • Yes they were armed and there were explosive devices.

        To compare the siege of the Capitol, let’s suppose Joe Biden had assembled a group of armed BLM protestors across the White House and told them to go in and loot the White House and remove Trump.

      • aporiac –

        You should get together with Don. Between the two of you, you can probably write some very entertaining fantasy books.

        -snip-

        Officer who shot at Air Force veteran and Trump backer placed on leave amid investigation of her death during Wednesday riot

        -snip-

        Make sure to add looney political content and a few references to the climate change hoax and you’ll get a lot of business from the denizens at Climate Etc.

      • James Cross – you are ruining your credibility. Show proof that a protester in the Capitol had an explosive device. IEDs were found at the DNC and RNC headquarters, but no one knows who put them there, AFAIK.

      • A1960
        The issue is one of protocols. I am surprised the protocol wasn’t to shoot first and ask questions later. There are places in this country that security cannot allow unauthorized entry when intent is unknown. I do suspect you may be right that security had read the crowd during the day and felt their intent was not violent.

      • @James Cross

        “Yes they were armed and there were explosive devices.”

        Providing any arms were licensed, this is allowed in law. It is important not to confuse laws you don’t like with illegality. The picture you paint is of people taking weapons and explosives with intent to engage in an armed insurrection. Nothing even close to this happened no matter how much you attempt to stretch reality. As Scott Adams would say: you are hallucinating.

        “let’s suppose Joe Biden had assembled a group of armed BLM protestors across the White House and told them to go in and loot the White House”

        Nothing even close to this happened, although you are correct that had the protesters been BLM supporters it might have done. When Trump supporters assemble in large numbers for a rally or other event, it invariably ends peacefully unless they are set upon by self-styled “anti-fascists.” When BLM supporters do the same it typically ends in rioting, burning and looting. The former chant “lock them up,” “drain the swamp” or “fake news”, whereas the latter chant “burn it down”. Everything else is a product of your imagination working under the direction of your prejudices. You need to try to rid yourself of these because they are playing havoc with your reasoning.

        There is no doubt that things got out of control at the Capitol building protest. The protesters who entered the building had no business being there, and those individual crossed the legal line. As I wrote in an earlier comment, the reason this did not end in a blood bath is because that was transparently not the intent of the protesters despite your absurd characterisations, and the police and other security personnel recognised this because it would be obvious to anyone who wasn’t hallucinating. From the footage I’ve seen, it is uncertain the extent to which people broke in or were let into the building.

        I suggest you take Trump at face value and heed his call for calm – especially in your fevered imaginings.

      • @James Cross

        Despite my previous remarks, I am willing to concede you some things without necessarily joining in your flights of fancy.

        There is a phenomenon that in Britain we call “giving a dog a bad name”. John Stuart Mill described this in terms of the legal system when he remarked that if a man is likely to be convicted whether guilty or innocent, he has little incentive not to engage in criminality because he’s going to punished whether he does or not.

        In the case of Trump supporters, they have spent the last four years being told they are white supremacists, if not out-and-out Nazis. They have also been popularly characterised as violent and dangerous scum, and heard physical assaults against them being justified, or even celebrated, on the grounds that it is a form of defence. In fact, they were entirely peaceable. However, they did say things their political opponents didn’t like, and worse, demonstrated they were an effective political force. This was the assault they perpetrated. The rage was not on their side, but on the side they defeated, which was unleashed as slander, and at the extreme a desire to administer a beating. Although most of their opponents weren’t willing go this far themselves, they were very happy for others to take on the job for them.

        You may be right that some of the people subjected to this are less peaceable than they were.

        Meanwhile, this same group witnessed social and political grievances being expressed as violent protests, to which the response was, “These people are clearly angry and upset, we should listen to them and address their complaints.”

        To use another dog metaphor, I’m not an American and so I don’t have one on the fight. However, those are my observations. Your own correspond with the official account as provided by the ‘liberal’ corporate media (i.e. most of it), and by the self-styled ‘intelligentsia’. It has the convenience of being ready-made, and so spares you the trouble of having to think. Also, in the current climate it is probably expedient to hold these opinions, so there is that to consider as well.

      • “You may be right that some of the people subjected to this are less peaceable than they were.

        Meanwhile, this same group witnessed social and political grievances being expressed as violent protests, to which the response was, “These people are clearly angry and upset, we should listen to them and address their complaints.” ”

        Thank you for your perspective from across the pond. You seem spot on in that.

        I’m curious what media you read to be informed on the situation here in the states. And just for fun, what’s your personal view on Brexit – pro or con?

      • “ There is a real false equivalence in your argument.
        A random Wendy’s or Macy’s looted by mob is one thing. That’s bad.”

        You also raise a false equivalence. Antifa mobs destroyed and occupied federal buildings, just like the Capitol, although the business therein was not equivalent. Many police cars were burned and officers attacked and killed by the leftist thugs – Much worse than breaking windows or disrupting Congress.

      • @bigterguy – don’t confuse the lefties with facts. They might have cardiac arrest if they actually see one.

      • But they called us mean names.
        But expressing themselves.

      • @mesocyclone

        “I’m curious what media you read to be informed on the situation here in the states.”

        I try to find the widest range of viewpoints. I watch some CNN, some Fox, and PBS News, the BBC, etc., but also lots of more fringe Left, Right and Centrist independent sources. Mostly, anyone who’s interesting! I follow stuff from TYT, Eric and Bret Weinstein, PagerU, Matt Taibi, Glen Greenwald, Brietbart, Dershowitz, Shapiro, Jimmy Dore, Krystal Ball, Cernovich, Larry Elder, Thomas Sowell, Christina Sommers, Scott Adams, Robert Barnes, Michael Malice, Joe Rogan, Scott Adams, Niko House, Dave Rubin, and a few others! Obviously, White House TV, and @realDonaldTump as well! There are also a few British commentators on American affairs (probably largely unknown in America) who are worthwhile.

        I supported Brexit because the competencies of the EU require a 90,000 page legal document to define them. In every practical sense it is undemocratic. The only way to remove the people who make the real decisions is to leave the EU so they no longer have sovereignty over you. That’s why they’re p*ssed-off with us: they were certain they couldn’t be fired, and we proved them wrong. Geopolitically, it’s a tired old wh*re – a popinjay superpower. 90% of the time this is not a problem, but 10% of the time it’s a potential disaster. I don’t know Britain’s future role in the world, but I’m certain that a) the EU is the wrong place for us, and b) we’ll be able to work it out for ourselves perfectly well.

      • Thanks for your detailed answer. I also recommend PJMedia.com as an interesting right wing source. And for a more intellectual take, the National Review. Also, the American Spectator is a fun right wing outlet – a former magazine, now a web site.

  20. Barack Obama, Democrats, leftists fuel hypocritical anti-free speech movement

    https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2021/jan/7/barack-obama-democrats-leftists-fuel-hypocritical-/

  21. So this is what we’ve got – as demonstrated on this thread as well as the previous:

    > Trump said the election was stolen, as have many, many people, and they have evidence to demonstrate this,

    Evidence to demonstrate this. Evidence to demonstrate that orders were issued to allow the demonstrators into the Capital. Evidence that the planes didn’t cause the building to collapse on 9/11.

    This is what we’ve got, where a significant segment of our citizenry is fully convinced that what happened is justified by a deep state and libz and commies and people who are mean to Trump.

    And when you point out how vapid the thinking is, what you get in return is “They do it too.”

    Sad. The takeover of the Capital was one thing. It’s these responses that’s really troubling.

    I like to hope it’s mostly just outliers. After all, online commenters clearly comprise an outlier group. A lot of conservatives have left the Republican party. A significant chunk of those left are turning their back on these nuts. But how many remain?

    • So if you are a conservative, you are a nut? No freedom of speech for those who disagree with the left.

      This is not going to end well for the republic if more and more citizens (both left and right) lose faith in the evenhanded application of rule of law and Bill of Rights. That is precisely what occurred in a number of our cities this last year and death and destruction was the result. I fear that if we stay on this path, extremists on both sides will attempt to spread even more anarchy to further their own warped agendas.

      Everybody needs to step back from the ramparts, take a deep breath and remember this nation was created so all can be free. Our freedoms can only endure so long as hatred is kept at bay. The left would do well to remember that and the right should avoid walking further down that same path.

      • > So if you are a conservative, you are a nut?

        Huh? There are tons o’ conservatives who aren’t remotely nuts. They’ve been driven out of the Republican Party (except Romney) but there’s plenty of them out there.

    • Josh, You are such a vacuous person. You don’t know what the evidence is so you brand that mountain of affidavits as a conspiracy theory. It’s masterful rhetorical obfuscation.

    • I love how you boyz come to the defense of someone who claims it’s a “fact” that orders were issued to allow the mob into the Capital, who thinks that its a “fact” the buildings didn’t collapse on 9/11 because of the planes that flew into them, who thinks it’s a “fact” that the election was stolen.

      • Joshua, thanks for the flattery, but I highly doubt anyone is actually coming to my defense, rather than stating their own opinions.

        And Josh, please note, I focused on one specific video of a minor area where police did indeed let protesters in. So there was obviously an order of some sort, at the area. That’s my claim. In other areas it’s a fact that police were overwhelmed. Was there a plan in place to allow protesters in by having an insufficient police presence, no tear gas, no shields, no rubber bullets (or whatever they use now) at the ready, when everyone knew that these people would be mad as hell, believing that an election had been stolen? Think about that. Yes, it could be gross incompetence, maybe. Who would gain if this happened? Well, listen to the news and you can hear who benefited. Does that mean that absolutely this was a “conspiracy”? No, it does not; it’s mere speculation. But to believe that such things don’t happen, and couldn’t happen, is to be politically naive, IMHO.

        So far as my other assertions go, I, and many others, believe that numerous instances of gross election irregularities have gone unanswered and have been swept aside, and the key issue isn’t whether Trump won, the key issue is, if we can’t have scrutiny of our election process and answer all claims of irregularities instead of insisting that everything is baseless, then can we have fair elections going forward? The mere assertion that everything is baseless, without any serious scrutiny (except for evasive measures such as: “we matched all signatures in a minor county you don’t care about, so go way”) is frightening in its implications for future elections.

      • Don, those are good points. Most importantly, the elections of 2000, 2004, 2016, and 2020 have all been called suspect for any number of reasons. In order to restore faith in our election system we need a fully 100% auditable system. Thus means that every single vote must be able to withstand scrutiny as to its validity. We certainly have the technology to make this happen, but many politicians (more Dems than Reps) seem to be against it. One can only assume that those against fully transparent elections have nefarious motives.

      • > One can only assume that those against fully transparent elections have nefarious motives.

        Arguments from incredulity can never be disproven.

      • Please suggest another reason to oppose honest, auditable elections.

    • -snip-

      Trump’s ex-White House chief of staff John Kelly supports using 25th Amendment to remove the President

      -snip-

      Wall Street Journal editorial calls on Trump to resign.

      You boyz are hilarious.

      • Devis, Chou resign.

        3 republican governors say Trump should resign.

        But at Climate Etc Trump’s still a hero.

        I’m living this.

      • Loving this.

        How many members of his administration have reigned?

        But yeah, that mob got a “little carried away” and Trump had nothing to do with he. He told them to be peaceful. They just got a little over-excited. Because they love America so much. Just like Trump.

        Keep it up, boyz. Very entertaining.

    • “A lot of conservatives have left the Republican party. A significant chunk of those left are turning their back on these nuts.”

      If these conservatives who are leaving/turning their back on the Republican party are a viable political force, then how did a maverick like Trump manage to win the nomination in 2016 and subsequently bend the party to his will? If Romney is the figure who epitomises the not-nuts faction of the party, how did Trump manage to accumulate nearly 3x his number of delegates in the primaries? If Trump rode into the Presidency on the coat tails of these traditional custodians of the party, why didn’t they then exert control over him, rather than supplicate themselves to him? If Trump was an unfit and unrepresentative Republican candidate, why was he unopposed in 2019?

      How was Trump even possible if all was well in the State of Denmark? And I’m not just talking about the Republican Party, but the settled American political dispensation that was supposedly a faithful expression of the will of the American people. The very fact of Trump blows that theory into orbit. That said,Trump blew the theories of all the political theorists into orbit. As someone interested in politics, it was a joyful experience to listen to the almost daily pronouncement of his certain demise following some action, statement, revelation, etc., or about the imminent reassertion of the forces of civilisation in the form of Hillary or the never-Trumpers. Indeed, this continued unabated pretty-much after he won the Presidency, but with the post hoc dragon slayers being the Resistance, the FBI or Congress or maybe his doctor, lol.

      I also find it strange that many people are urging a reversion to pre-Trump normality and welcome this prospect, apparently forgetting that Trump emerged in precisely this idyl. The solution, of course, is to explain Trump as a Martian visitation – a freak event with no earthly explanation – and therefore unlikely to be repeated.

      It is true that Trump has been got rid of, and so the system could be considered to have corrected itself. Leaving aside questions over the legitimacy of the election, it seemed to take rather unconventional and unbecoming means, and no doubt this will continue in the effort to abolish Trump supporters as well as Trump.

      I don’t disagree that Trump was a fool, a bombast, an egotist lacking self-awareness, a bit of a fraud, and somewhat dangerous. I just think he manifested these qualities less acutely than the people he was up against, and that, ultimately, explains his success.

      I don’t expect to stop laughing anytime soon.

  22. OK.

    Just heard the best lame excuse I’ve seen yet. A Trump supporter. Still supports Trump. Complained about the mess yesterday because they made Trump look bad.

    I doubt anyone can top that.

    • Joshua-

      As a non-austrlian living a comfortable life in australia (i infer this from your active and frequent participation in comments sections), do you feel wronged by Trump? Are you a victim of Trump?
      Just curious.

  23. I have no wish to criticize another nation’s politics but there is a more general issue here. Rioting and street violence may have become more prominent but I doubt whether political divisions are deeper than ever as commentators love to claim. What has happened is that easier communication and greater prosperity and mobility have become powerful enablers. The pool of people disposed to physical demonstrations of opinion can now vent their opinions more vigorously than ever. The pool hasn’t grown or become more extreme, people haven’t changed much. But what they can do with their time has. We should all just relax and watch. Which in fact is what’s happening.

    • Tom,
      As far as the nature of the electorate I think you are correct. The last poll I saw indicated that fewer than 10% of the electorate identify as extreme left, with a similar number identifying as extreme right. The polarization and rhetoric is unprecedented in my lifetime though. I believe this is enabled by social media…we all now know what others politics are, and think we need to excoriate them for their views.

      We are not too far gone yet I think. Banning voices on social media will not help though. We will all just retreat to our own echo chamber never hearing any arguments counter to our own views.

  24. Dear Judith,

    I don’t know if you will read this far down in the comments, but I’d like to thank you for your efforts over the past 15 years to try and explain what is really happening in climate science and the Global Warming research. You are one of the people that I go to for answers (such as are available) concerning my own opinions on climate science.

    I work in the construction industry and it’s incredible the changes that we’ve had to make to our buildings over the years to address these dubious climate predictions. People often ask me why homes are so expensive and I include the cost of global warming mitigation as a significant factor. The biggest factors are a lack of skilled labor in the market and political land use authority being the first two. However, climate mitigation is definitely the third biggest factor increasing the cost of housing. In California, I would estimate the cost of climate mitigation at between $20K and $40K per new home.

    Anyway, I just wanted to say thank you for your efforts and please keep it up.

    John

  25. Here’s a video of Trump protesters stopping a man from hammering a window open …

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1347046917512028162

    • Oh, because someone was shouting ‘antifa’ that means they were actually antifa? Well, that’s easy, isn’t it? Shout out that the bad people among you are actually your enemies and, poof, it is the truth!

      • The point is, people in that crowd did not want to see windows being smashed, and stopped it. I agree completely that whoever starting breaking windows, from whichever side, was wrong. I recognize that. So, apparently, did people in this supposedly right-wing, white nationalist, while supremacist (I heard that on NPR today!) crowd.

        Why was this an “insurrection!!!” when all the burning and looting and destruction of property this summer was merely people stating their impassioned views?

        What’s the aftermath of all this? Who gained? Who got the upper hand? Just coincidence? I heard today that they’re even worried Trump might start a nuclear war before he leaves office! My, my.

      • But fringe group.
        But Antifa.
        But they said insurrection.

    • All poor misunderstood do-gooders.

      • Yeah. They just wanted to express their views. Crushing a cop in a doorway was just a coincidence.

  26. What’s with the “warning” on Gross’ tweet? The tech titans are every bit as powerful as the malefactors of great wealth of the 19th Century. They are more powerful in a way because they control our main means of online communication.

    It’s part of a very alarming trend toward punishing people for their political views and trying to silence them. Apparently Josh Hawley’s book has been canceled by the publisher.

    • dpy6629

      “It’s part of a very alarming trend toward punishing people for their political views and trying to silence them.”

      Today’s titans of “industry”, in this case mass communication like Google, Facebook and others, as those in the 19th Century, are subject to the same remembrance in history.

      “The evil that men do lives after them;
      The good is oft interred with their bones.” Shakespeares, Julius Caesar

      For these commanders of the airwaves, a bit of circumspect and cognizance of their legacy may influence to some degree their willingness to step over the boundaries of such an imperial state.

      • These “Titans” of industry want cheap labor from India and other parts of the world and want as much of the market in China as they can get. They don’t give a dam n about us Citizens of the US. They don’t care even bout the USA. All they care about is the billions they can rake in with Biden and Commie-lah. Peas in a pod.

        If Biden and Commie-lah release krim I nails into our common neighborhoods, it won’t affect them in their mansions with security guards. They dont’ care. They have money to spare and Biden, Commie-lah, and the other Dimowits will gladly take some.

  27. The price we pay for democracy I guess.

  28. It’s always the same with cult followers, isn’t it? The Dear Leader is not responsible for the actions of his fanatics (even though he encouraged them to demonstrate and be ready for action, while feeding them a constant stream of delusional conspiracies) but, even if he is, it’s actually the police’s fault (because they had a secret plan to make the demonstration look bad) or the fault of lefty, antifa provocateurs!
    You only have to look at the different reaction to the BLM demonstration in the Capitol last June to understand how deluded it is to think that the police are not in any way biased – but not against Trump’s followers, however. Tear gas, batons and riot gear against the BLM demonstration; relaxed and open barriers in front of the cultists.
    Wake up, Trump cultists – you’re looking more deluded by the day.

    • “You only have to look at the different reaction to the BLM demonstration in the Capitol last June to understand how deluded it is to think that the police are not in any way biased – but not against Trump’s followers, however. Tear gas, batons and riot gear against the BLM demonstration; relaxed and open barriers in front of the cultists.”

      Wait a minute– are you saying that the capitol police, who are charged with defending the capitol, would not defend it against an angry mob when they knew that the mob believed an election had been stolen from them? Interesting. So then their superiors would have to be Trump supporters, disregarding their duty to protect the capitol building with tear gas, etc., if need be, in order to support Trump, because SOMEONE would have to decide how this was handled, wouldn’t they? So the superior officers were in a conspiracy to NOT protect the capitol with all available force? They were derelict in their duty because they love Trump? Really?

  29. In the near term, it’s pretty simple for the nation’s governors – get the vax to the people, put riders and looters in jail and stop standing on the neck of free enterprise…

  30. Just to take a moment to take note of how far we have come.

    We have a blog that is dedicated to the principle of interrogating evidence, and analyses of that evidence for the potential influence of bias, and examination of the role of how uncertainty was factored into those processes.

    And we have widespread support, at the at this very website, for the idea that simple assertions = “evidence” despite that zero empirical or analytical study can support that conclusion.

    And we have through Nic, a situation where empirical analysis was provided, independent of examination for the influence of bias in that analysis, that was later shown to clearly under-value uncertainty, and there has been precious little examination for how that bias played into the analytical process, and virtually zero accounting for the under-valuing of uncertainty.

    Notably there have been some exceptions from someone like Frank (and at least on COVID, meso).

    Great work, Judith. You’re at the leading edge of the spear for providing a space for examining how cognitive bias and under-valuation of uncertainty and analytical processes interact.

    Even if mostly it’s happening unintentionally.

  31. Apparently the Dimowits forgot they broke into the Kavanaugh hearings.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1047935416182235136

    • Everett F Sargent

      Update: Police Arrest 302 Anti-Kavanaugh Protesters At Senate Building
      https://dcist.com/story/18/10/04/huge-crowds-march-from-kavanaugh-co/

      Arrested the same day even.

      • Everett –

        Problem with conspiracy theories is plausibility. As someone else (I think) said above, don’t attribute malice when simple incompetence or stupidity or motivated reasoning would suffice.

        A lot of people would have had to have been involved. The penalty for getting caught would be severe. Not a single whistle-blower with a conscience when they find out what was going on? If there’s any chance it was just incompetence, that’s by far the more likely explanation.

    • They did it first.

      • Everett F Sargent

        TASS = Trump Apologists Sycophant Syndrome

      • It’s truly impressive that despite a fairly widespread phenomenon of longstanding conservatives and even some of the remaining Republicans calling for Trump to be held to account, the diehard “skeptics” here will unendingly trot out the most lamest of excuses to avoid acknowledging the obvious.

        Each and every predictable lame excuse will be trotted out.

        Rheu did it first… They do it too.. He didn’t actually say “go kill some people for me…”. Etc.

      • Everett –

        This is why I love our “skeptics” so much.

        They think they’re making good arguments when in reality they’re just providing great examples of just how lame reasoning can get when people are highly enough motivated.

        You gotta love ’em.

        The conspiracy theories remain my favorite. Which are your favorite?

      • Everett F Sargent

        I think I might score a zero for originality, but my own conspiracy theory, with exactly zero evidence, mind you …

        There were security appeasers that allowed this to happen. Trump supporters in the police and national guard ranks. There was not even a single bus or holding pen waiting in which to place or accommodate arrested rioters. Zero accommodations for holding hundreds of rioters.

        In the last thread, I was the 1st that mentioned rioters when the DC mayor called up all of 100 unarmed DC National Guard. They did not want to upset Trump and the rioters by a strong showing of force.

        OK so far out there in nutbar territory. I don’t believe that is what happened at all.

        But in terms of risk assessment someone in charge seriously missed the real risks involved when several Trump supporters had the microphone at The White House that led up to this insurrection. The planning that went into this protest. All points to some very lax security measures and precautions.

    • “Apparently the Dimowits forgot they broke into the Kavanaugh hearings.”

      How many people died at the Kavanaugh hearings?
      Apples and oranges.

  32. Now maybe the reason for the Pentagon firings and replacement by Trump. It looks like the National Guard only got sent in after the failed putsch.

    Pentagon placed limits on D.C. Guard ahead of pro-Trump protests due to narrow mission

    quotes

    On the call, Capitol Police Chief Steven A. Sund was asked whether he wanted help from the National Guard. “There was a pause,” one of the D.C. officials said. And Sund said yes. “Then there was another pause, and an official from the [office of the] secretary of the Army said that wasn’t going to be possible”

    Maryland Gov. Larry Hogan (R) said he received a call from House Majority Leader Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.), who said he was in a secure location with House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Charles E. Schumer.

    “I was actually on the phone with Leader Hoyer, who was pleading with us to send the guard,” Hogan said. “He was yelling across the room to Schumer and they were back and forth saying we do have the authorization, and I’m saying, ‘I’m telling you we do not have the authorization.’ ”

    Hogan said Maj. Gen. Timothy Gowen, the adjutant general of the Maryland National Guard, was repeatedly rebuffed by the Pentagon. “The general . . . kept running it up the flagpole, and we don’t have authorization,” he said.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trump-protests-washington-guard-military/2021/01/07/c5299b56-510e-11eb-b2e8-3339e73d9da2_story.html

    • The Mayor of D.C. had requested that the National Guard not be called out for the demonstration.

      As for “attempted putsch” – get a grip, man. Did that look like a serious attempt to take over the government?

      It was a riot – you know, like the ones in Texas and Wisconsin where leftists staged “attempted putsch” by invading legislatures.

      To be clear – it was wrong, and even worse, supremely stupid to invade the Capitol.

    • Everett F Sargent

      Well, that is a bit closer to the conspiracy theory I floated above. An investigation is needed immediately to ferret out what actually occurred between the Trump administration and security forces throughout the immediate region in the days/weeks leading up to this insurrection.

      Something went sideways, something that did not have to go sideways, in the 1st place.

    • https://twitter.com/PressSec/status/1346918582832168964?s=20. The time stamp when this first came out was 2:36.

      • Kayleigh McEnany
        @PressSec
        ·
        Jan 6

        US government account
        At President
        @realDonaldTrump
        ’s direction, the National Guard is on the way along with other federal protective services.

        We reiterate President Trump’s call against violence and to remain peaceful.

  33. I mean seriously, check this out:

    -snip-

    Former Attorney General William Barr accused President Donald Trump on Thursday of a “betrayal of his office” — the latest rebuke of the president by a former high-ranking administration official after pro-Trump rioters stormed the U.S. Capitol.

    -snip-

    William Freakin’ Barr

    The man who Trump himself appointed to be the highest laww enforcement official in the land.

    Even the Wall Street Journal editorial page gar up the fought. Cabinet members resigning…

    And yet our much beloved “skeptics,” it seems to a man, just hang on for dear life.

    You gotta admire the fortitude if nothing else. That’s dedication.

    • > The man who Trump himself appointed to be the highest laww enforcement official in the land

      After firing the previous guy for not sucking up quite hard enough.

      Clearly, Trump should have scanned the pages of Climate Etc. to find a replacement for Sessions. I’m sure he wouldn’t have been disappointed if he had done so.

      • Curious George

        For a lack of other response, you comment on yourself. I’ll bite. Joshua is always sooo right and righteous.

      • George –

        Thanks. I don’t know about “righteous,” but you’re spot on with the “sooo right” part.

    • Rats off the ship.

    • Barr probably has his own issues that should be investigated but he is hoping to fly under the radar with the bigger fish to fry in the White House and a little bit of belated condemnation.

  34. Jesus –

    > Cruz said he believes Trump’s rhetoric had contributed to the siege on the Capitol.

    In a other couple days there may be no one left in the TASS* crowd except Climate Etc. denizens?**

    * Trump Apologists Sycophant Syndrome
    ** I’m sure that WUWT has its share, also.

  35. Equating the proud boys to antifa shows just how clueless you are. The fact that you believe this makes everything else you say suspect.

    The same media machine and propagandists who smeared you are the same people who smear the proud boys and of course anyone else that goes against the mainstream narratives.

    Advice for the future, do your research on matters outside your climate sphere before you speak on them to avoid sounding like just another mainstream parrot.

    • Lol. Thanks God someone’s here to step up for the Proud Boyz.

      • Workhorse: Workhorse | January 8, 2021 at 2:44 pm | Reply
        Equating the proud boys to antifa shows just how clueless you are.

        Joshua:
        Lol. Thanks God someone’s here to step up for the Proud Boyz.

        From another point of view: Antifa has done more actual damage to people and property (in multiple cities) than the Proud Boyz. Hence Workhorse’s objecting to equating the two groups.

      • Right.

        They do it too or they do it worse.

        Now where, outside of junior high school, have I seen that before?

      • > Hence Workhorse’s objecting to equating the two groups.

        That’s hilarious. So moral equivocation now becomes “objecting to equating the two groups. $.”

        That goes into the “can’t make it up” category.

        Or maybe the “conspiracy theories aren’t conspiracy theories” category.

        Or maybe the “But he didn’t actually SAY” Go break through the barricades and climb up the walls break windows and destroy property and steal stuff and fight with the police” category.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Noone knows who WF is talking to. Maybe JC’s original post?

        “the Proud Boys (on the right) and the Antifa (on the left)” Shows how little someone here knows about US history.

        We already have a very long history with Skinheads going all the way back to 1619 even. So no, antifa has done several orders of magnitude less damage then has been carried out by The Lost Cause types throughout our history.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Forgot to mention the fallacy of false dichotomy on the part of JC. Equating real racists to so-called anarchists.

      • Everett F Sargent: “the Proud Boys (on the right) and the Antifa (on the left)” Shows how little someone here knows about US history.

        We already have a very long history with Skinheads going all the way back to 1619 even. So no, antifa has done several orders of magnitude less damage then has been carried out by The Lost Cause types throughout our history.

        Are you asserting that Antifa has no socialist destructive antecedents? (The name is ironic for a group that acts like Mussolini’s Fascists.)

        Are you asserting that Antifa has no racial prejudice?

      • Everett F Sargent

        Yes.

        “They also engage in protest tactics, seeking to combat fascists and racists such as neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and other far-right extremists, and differing from other leftist opposition movements by their willingness to directly confront far-right activists, and in some cases law enforcement.”

      • Everett F Sargent

        Yes.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States)

        Search on the words r a c i s t or r a c i s m

      • That’s right, Bernie-bro, commie-fa is much worse than the Proud Boys. At least the Proud Boys are on the side of the USA. Commie-fa would love to see the USA fall.

      • Everett F Sargent

        I am pretty sure Proud Boys are r a c i s t.

        Which use to be a great American tradition. There is a current revival movement though, so … MAGA!!!

      • “I am pretty sure Proud Boys are r a c i s t.”

        I think their black Cuban chairman will agree with you.

      • Matthew R Marler

        Everett F Sargent: We already have a very long history with Skinheads going all the way back to 1619 even. So no, antifa has done several orders of magnitude less damage then has been carried out by The Lost Cause types throughout our history.

        In 2020, the Antifans have done lots more damage to people and property than the Proud Boyz, sometimes with encouragement of (mostly Democrat) local and national leaders. If we aggregate all the racists (Al Sharpton? Margaret Singer? Woodrow Wilson?) and compare them tot he aggregate of all socialists (Bernie-Bro James Hodgkinson? Symbionese Liberation Army? Weather Underground? Wobblies?) we end up with an indefinite swamp of incompatibilities.

        In 2020 (and throughout Trump’s term as president) the Antifans have done more damage to people (including assault, rape, and murder) and property than the Proud Boyz.
        Bo
        I

    • Extra points for the appeal to the self-aggrandizing allure of the non-mainstream elite.

  36. They are definitely different. Antifa for the most part isn’t stupid enough to post their law-breaking on social media.

    • Errr… there was the Antifa idiot here in Phoenix who got shot in the groin with a pepper ball – to the amusement of anyone watching network news.

      He was arrested after he posted about it on social media.

      Seriously – I suspect a lot of those in the Capitol were not aware they were breaking the law. Certainly those who broke in, and those who struggled with police know. But many seemed to just follow others.

      For example, there is video of them walking in an orderly fashion, between the visitor ropes, through the Capitol. That’s as sign of no mens rea.

  37. Ben Sasse –

    “He was flagrantly disregarding his oath of office.”

    Outside of using that to contrast the extremism of Climate Etc. commenters, Just to weigh in.

    I actually think we should move on. It was a serous and unexcusable breach of security that a bunch of loons with serous persecution complexes, stoked by Trump for his own personal purposes, took advantage of. Serious damage done but it should be kept in context. There was no real threat to the nation’s security. There was a non-trivial threat to law-makers. It’s a sign of serious problems with our institutions of government and our ability to work together as a nation under the threat of an authoritarian demagogue.

    I respect Sasse quite a bit as someone who is often consistent ideologically even if I disagree with him strongly on most all political matters.

    That said, let’s move on, Ben. I wish the demz trying to impeach would do the same.

  38. I have to say, the list of people with Trump Derangement Syndrome is getting awfully long:

    -snip-
    Colin Powell calls for Trump’s resignation ‘as quickly as possible’: ‘He should be totally ashamed of himself’
    -snip-

    But thanks God we have some non-biased, clear-minded truth seekers here at Climate Etc. who aren’t cowed by the meanie mainstream media who are so unfairly persecuting poor wittle Trumpie the victim.

  39. more on direct pressure brought to bear against legislators:
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/11/13/ocasio-cortez-climate-protestors-push-pelosi-962915

    This is not to excuse the attack on the Capitol, but only to show it isn’t the end of democracy. There were direct confrontations against Senators during the Kavanaugh confirmation votes. And on and on. The attack on the Capitol had unique aspects, but it wasn’t the first, the longest, the strongest such; it had no impact on the vote.

    Trump thinks the election was stolen from him. So did Samuel Tilden and Andrew Jackson. Jackson was able to come back and win two terms. Not so Tilden.

    • Right. “They did it first.”

      > This is not to excuse the attack on the Capitol…

      I always love that kind of introductory clause.

      “This is not to excuse the attack on the Capitol [but here comes an excuse for the attack on the Capitol, and of course, as a rationalization for my Trump sycophancy].”

      • The fact is the left is acting like this is unprecedented, it isn’t. There are many instances of the capital being breached. Including five members of the house shot from the gallery in 1954.

      • > The fact is the left is acting like this is unprecedented, it isn’t. There are many instances of the capital being breached. Including five members of the house shot from the gallery in 1954.

        Yah. Colin Powell. Murkowski. Sasse. Barr. Graham. George Will. Romney, etc., etc., etc.

        All those members of “the left” trying to act like this is a big deal.

      • Your comments are increasing illogical. It was a big deal in 1954 also.

      • Curious George

        Joshua, FYI: Alvin Morell Bentley (R-Michigan), who took a bullet to the chest, Clifford Davis (D-Tennessee), who was shot in the leg, Ben F. Jensen (R-Iowa), who was shot in the back, as well as George Hyde Fallon (D-Maryland) and Kenneth A. Roberts (D-Alabama).

      • What happened in 1954 is irrelevant.

        That you want to deflect is telling.

      • Not to mention the Bernie Bro who attempted to massacre members of congress at a baseball practice. That’s vastly worse and many would have died except the poor leftie was old and probably not a good shot. Steve Scalise was really on the verge of death.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Another fallacy of moving the goal posts. TASS.

  40. Maybe this will leave a mark?

    -snip-
    Former White House communications director Alyssa Farah said Friday that President Donald Trump lied to the American people about the 2020 presidential election results and said that he should “seriously consider” resigning from office after Wednesday’s deadly insurrection at the US Capitol
    -snip-

    Nah. Who am I kidding?

    It just fits right in to the “Trump is such a victim and is responsible for nothing” narrative of the snowflake, apologist Trump cult

  41. Looks like they started to round them up. I guess we’ll see soon enough how many antifa among them. LOL

    Man pictured with foot on desk in Pelosi’s office is arrested

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-foot-desk-pelosi-s-office-capitol-arrested-n1253490

  42. Peloloser and Schmucker need to be put in jail for life for commie-fa’s killing, arson, and general destruction. Trump can’t hold a candle to those id- i- ots.

  43. David Wojick

    What the storming of the Capitol shows is that the right is just as angry as the left, or almost since there was no looting and burning things down. What next is the interesting question? Resistance to Biden will not end and may well grow stronger among those who think the election was stolen, which polls show to be a large number of people. The rhetoric is still ramping up.

    Several things come to mind as highly possible.
    1. Trump will leave but not concede so the lawsuits will continue. Many of the allegations have yet to be fairly heard and responded to.

    2. Like Teddy Roosevelt, Trump may form a third party.

    3. There may be a tax revolt and/or other forms of mass civil disobedience.

    On Inauguration Day we will officially become a Nation divided. Much follows from this but like the climate it is intrinsically unpredictable.

    • > What the storming of the Capitol shows is that the right is just as angry as the left, or almost since there was no looting and burning things down

      They do it too, they do it worse.

      Nice combo.

    • Everett F Sargent

      “On Inauguration Day we will officially become a Nation divided.”

      Yes, we already knew that, it happened on January 20, 2016.

    • I think that occurred after Trump won 4 years ago. If you remember, the country was split down the middle but Clinton received the most votes.

      • I would argue we headed down this path when Clinton wasn’t removed from office for lying under oath and an inappropriate relationship with a subordinate. That is when the double standard became obvious.

      • Lol.

        But Antifa was good.

        But, but Clinton is waaaay better.

      • Your comments need to include some sort of Rosetta stone so people can figure out WTF your point is.

    • Normalizing political violence actually started under Obama. Recall Ferguson, recall the other cities where there was mass political violence and Obama winked and nodded. People died in this violence too. BTW, the Ferguson incident turned out to be a justified shooting according to a grand jury and all the evidence. It’s only due to normalizing political violence which has been a theme of the socialist and Marxist left for 150 years. After all, Marxist “science” says its inevitable.

      Some here might be alarmed by the fact that Trump is not going away. Trump supporters are not going away either. Just today Trump announced that “we” are going to start alternative social media platforms that actually allow free speech. Parler’s site is down because of masses of people going there. Many are dumping twitter too.

  44. So there are a pair of progressive pests swearing right and left that they didn’t do it first. Skinheads apparently brought slavery to the US in 1619. The fact is that they did do it first and all year in 2020. And on a much larger scale of injury and destruction egged on by leftist ‘influencers’. It legitimized such behaviour. The difference between the right and the left is that no one on the right is justifying breaking into the US Capitol Building. My attitude is that it was first said by Thomas Jefferson. Left or right – shoot them all and let God sort them out. There are a couple of commies if put up against a wall would lighten the tedium.

    • Everett F Sargent

      Well excuse me for not using historically correct language. Seriously.

      “The fact is that they did do it first and all year in 2020. And on a much larger scale of injury and destruction egged on by leftist ‘influencers’. It legitimized such behaviour.”

      You don’t know what the actual facts are. TASS. Like it all just started magically happening in 2020. Absolutely nothing of these sorts has ever happened before 2020, like never in all of US history.

    • > It legitimized such behaviour.

      Lol. They made us do it.

      • No Joshua – I didn’t do it.

      • Good point. They made them so it. It’s a slightly different variety.

        I had a new revelation today.

        People so often go into moral equivalence justification not so much because they’re “tribal,” but because they are just not very well developed intellectually.

        They just have a limited repertoire.

        I’ve been watching the rightwing go through the list in response to the mob attack on the Capitol. “they do it too.” “They did it first.” “They do it worse.” “They made us/them do it.” “They’re just a fringe group.” blah, blahb blah.

        Just to be clear, I don’t think that happens any less on “the left.”

        I think I just haven’t fully appreciated just how intellectually limited so many people are.

        Of course, it’s possible that I’m just getting a skewed sample. One should never generalize from online fanatics, or politician, or TV pundits. But then again, maybe people in those groups are. I less developed than most people in this regard.

        I will give people like Ben Sasse some credit.

      • “Good point. They made them so it. It’s a slightly different variety.

        I had a new revelation today.

        People so often go into moral equivalence justification not so much because they’re “tribal,” but because they are just not very well developed intellectually. ”

        In spite of your obnoxious mockery, sneering and demeaning of your opponents.. I thought I’d give you a bit of info you are missing.

        A lot of the “they did it first” is not to justify the action, it is to point out the rank hypocrisy of the left and the mainstream media (but I repeat myself).

        The demonstrators should not have invaded the Capitol. That is clear. It was wrong and it was dumb.

        BUT.,.. where is the outrage about the invasion of the Kavanaugh hearings by the left, resulting in over 100 arrests? How about the leftist bombing of the Capitol? How about the takeover of the Senate Office Building? How about the Puerto Rico nationalist shooting attack in the Capitol that wounded five members on the floor of Congress?

        Yeah, crickets.

        Meanwhile, we hear that this was an “attempted coup.” It clearly was not. As mistaken as some of the attackers were, they were hardly dumb enough to stage a coup without weapons, military backup, and all the other things coup planners do.

        So, Joshua, I expect one of your mocking replies, since you have had nothing else to contribute lately. I’ll ignore it.

      • I’m an equal opportunity tyrant. Which bit of left or right shoot them all didn’t he get. People are responsible for their choices. Unless you are Joshua it seems.

        If lawlessness of any flavour is excused – something that is becoming commonplace from the left – we risk breaking something more significant than some glass at the Capitol. In this we can contrast the excuses of the left for months of violence and mayhem with the condemnation of the Capitol invasion by the right. These commies are a far more insidious – albeit tedious – danger than conservatives.

      • Everett F Sargent

        The fallacy of the strawdog …
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

      • > These commies are a far more insidious – albeit tedious – danger than conservatives.

        Lol. And like clockwork, Chief demonstrates my point precisely by recreating that precise moral equivalence framework.

        Of course I certainly expected no less from Mr Chief (of unintentional irony) Hydrologist.

        As they say, you can lead them to water…

        But you never disappoint. I’ll give you that.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Oh and TASS.

      • Yes, Elliott. That’s a good point.

        It is certainly a form of a straw man argument. You deflect from the moral failings of a group with which you identify (or at least hate less) by re-directing focus to the moral failings of a group that you hate

        Kind of just a “Look. Squirrel!”

        Take Chief’s example above. He ignores my point so he can express his moral superiority and his hatred of libz.

        As if any of his comments contain anything other than just that.

      • See what I mean about tedium? There is a moral equivalence that they object to. Every one is responsible for their actions.

        The point where it get’s fuzzy is when pissant progressives like Joshua and Everatt approve of one and condemn another.

        And Joshua imagines he has a point? LOL

      • Everett F Sargent

        “Every one is responsible for their actions.”

        All actions (or reactions) are the result of previous actions. Another strawdog on your own part.

        Oh and you are losing it. Seriously losing it. You need to calm down.

      • Newton’s third law replaces moral and legal responsibility in human affairs. This guy is a complete joke. He thinks in clichés and uses rote disparagement. If he imagines that he is capable of making me angry – he is mistaken.

      • Careful Elliott.

        He might threaten to take his ball and go home.

        He threatened me with a good time many times by promising to not read my comments and respond ever again – unfortunately he never had the self-discipline to follow through.

        If he gets really upset he’ll whine to mommy (Judith) and demand that you be banned.

      • > U.S. Sen. Lisa Murkowski said Friday that Donald Trump should resign the presidency immediately and that if the Republican Party cannot separate itself from Trump, she isn’t certain she has a future with the party.

        No moral equivalence there. Good for her.

      • This is the emptyheaded nonsense that Joshua inevitably resorts to. It is a tedious waste of time and has no substance to respond to.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Name calling! You have lost it. Again I say, please calm down.

      • I have on more than one occasion responded to Joshua without reading his comment. It makes not a whit of difference. LOL

      • Everett F Sargent

        In an extremely twisted form of logic … “It is a tedious waste of time and has no substance to respond to.” … is itself a response.

      • Oh and you are losing it. Seriously losing it. You need to calm down.

        He leads with rubbish and objects when I call him a joke for replacing moral and legal responsibility with Newton’s 3rd law. The latter attitude is the rationale for approving of months of mayhem. Draw your own conclusion.

        Joshua seems to believe something unrelated about Trump resigning. It has nothing to do with a day of spirited free speech at the Capitol. Roundly condemned by everyone.

        A coherent discussion is not something they care for. As is very obvious.

      • Everett F Sargent

        At the end of an incoherent post we get … “A coherent discussion is not something they care for. As is very obvious.”

        The irony …

      • Josh: You are one of the few who makes sense. Why do you bother to try to straighten out these guys? They are beyond help. As you point out, they are unable to distinguish fact from belief. Indeed, they mostly have preconceived beliefs which they claim as fact. I keep reading their inputs and your rebuttals, and you are obviously right, but a person of faith does not resort to logic or evidence.

      • At the tail end of a drawn out series of comments that have no substance – we get a version of Joshua’s allegation of unintended irony intended as an ultimate cancel culture dismissal. They have proved my point of what a tedious pair of progressive partisan pests they are. Coherent enough for you Everatt? The alliteration I throw in for free.

      • Wow – Donald – you are clearly one of those who do not appreciate the distinction between moral and legal responsibility and they made us do it. So you cannot admit to the moral (bad) equivalence of months of mayhem and a day of spirited free speech at the Capitol.

        I refer you – ironically – to Thomas Jefferson’s blood of patriots and tyrants – and his resolve to pacify and correct the spirit of rebellion in a free American society. But then pissant progressives don’t care for a free society do they?

      • Everett F Sargent

        “a day of spirited free speech at the Capitol.”

        Yes folks, a bad joke to be sure.

        Storming the Capitol is no one’s idea of free speech, except maybe for someone in Australia.

      • So he is going all mealy mouthed holier than thou now. The last resort of a scoundrel.

      • > it is to point out the rank hypocrisy of the left and the mainstream media (but I repeat myself).

        Because the rank hypocricy of the left (good thing thee isn’t rank hypocricy on the right) is sooooo relevant to the mob that attacked the Capitol.

        I get it. They made them do it.

      • Ben Sasse deserves respect for not trying to deflect.

        Follow his lead.

      • As for Josh’s intellectually superior sparring – you have to hand it to him. It’s difficult with both his faces tucked up his nether regions.

      • Every time you feel an inclination to deflect just stop yourself. Examine what’s inclining you to deflect. It’s not an immutable impulse

      • Any time you feel like saying something completely pointless… What am I saying – it’s all pointless.

      • Everett F Sargent

        OK. Let’s rewind this tape …

        Ignorant yours truly, me, myself and I did not know that the 2020 riots caused billions of damage and hundreds of casualties.

        But David originally stated …

        “And it is indeed true that Antifa and BLM caused hundreds of causalities and billions in property losses and ruined dreams over the last year.”

        And Robert then recycled with …

        “Antifa didn’t cause hundreds of casualties and billions in damage?”

        Both of these statements are incorrect, misleading and false …
        2020–2021 United States racial unrest
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_United_States_racial_unrest

        Parties involved:

        Executive branch of federal government including
        Army
        DOJ
        DHS
        FBI

        Local law enforcement

        Protesters:
        Black Lives Matter
        Antifa
        PSJBGC
        NFAC
        Other groups

        Others:
        Boogaloo movement

        Counterprotesters:
        QAnon supporters
        Three Percenters
        Patriot Prayer
        Proud Boys
        Armed vigilante groups and individuals
        Other groups

        So. in summary, a lot of groups were involved and all together. this lead to associated costs and casualties. Not antifa alone and not BLM and antifa alone as Robert and David would have you believe.

      • “So. in summary, a lot of groups were involved and all together. this lead to associated costs and casualties. Not antifa alone and not BLM and antifa alone as Robert and David would have you believe.”

        Speaking of deflection.

        Antia, BLM, sympathetic groups, and followers were by far in the majority in this. In most riots, they were the only groups present. And, just like with the Capitol protest, most were not violent. But enough were, and far more violent than the Capitol thugs – Antifa/BLM engaged in widespread arson, violent attacks on political opponents, looting, and murder.

        Yes, Proud Boys did show up a few times in Portland and elsewhere. But Proud Boys were not burning buildings or looting. Mostly, they were defending themselves (although a few were aggressors). I consider Proud Boys to mostly be a convenient group for the left to vilify and to caricature. For example, they are constantly called racist, even though their membership and leadership is multi-racial.

        Boogaloo were hardly seen at all, which is a good thing since they make qAnon followers look positively sane. But a couple of Boogaloo’s were arrested as they allegedly were traveling to commit a mass shooting incident.

        Boogaloo are an anomaly. They have a Charles Manson style vision of inciting a race war that will bring down the government. That can’t be classified left or right as far as I can tell. They’ve also been around for decades, without causing much trouble. But they are apparently dangerous.

      • It’s not surprising that Sargent didn’t know the truth about the riots. The media have been lying about it. This is the reason there is a crisis. The main institutions of our culture are corrupt.

      • > This is the reason there is a crisis.

        But the media.

      • You are on a heretic climate website, and you quote Wikipedia. Here I will insert "2020 riots caused billions of damage and hundreds of casualties." on to that page, now it is true.

        Sargent , yo

      • Everett F Sargent

        Well that is very interesting …

        Someone with the user name (all in bold type) of …

        “You are on a heretic climate website, and you quote Wikipedia. Here I will insert “2020 riots caused billions of damage and hundreds of casualties.” on to that page, now it is true.

        Posted on “January 9, 2021 at 2:00 pm”

        The following message “Sargent , yo”

        To which I would reply are all true statements. No antifa and no BLM. Very interesting indeed.

        Anyways, I posted the following link previously …
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_United_States_racial_unrest

        And it is a good read for an honest account of said events, so I will quote just a paragraph, but I would suggest reading the entire Wikipedia article …

        “The racial unrest precipitated a national American cultural reckoning on topics of racial injustice. Public opinion of racism and discrimination quickly shifted in the wake of the protests, with significantly increased support of the Black Lives Matter movement and acknowledgement of institutional racism, i.e. systemic advantages and disadvantages due to race.[36][37][38] Demonstrators revived a public campaign for the removal of Confederate monuments and memorials as well as other historic symbols such as statues of venerated American slaveholders and modern display of the Confederate battle flag.[39][40] Public backlash widened to other institutional symbols, including place names, namesakes, brands and cultural practices. Anti-racist self-education became a trend throughout June 2020 in the United States. Black anti-racist writers found new audiences and places on bestseller lists. American consumers also sought out black-owned businesses to support. The effects of American activism extended internationally, as global protests destroyed their own local symbols of racial injustice. Multiple media began to refer to it as a national reckoning on racial issues in early June. By the beginning of July, The Washington Post was running a regularly collecting new stories of the day related to “America’s Racial Reckoning”.[36][37][38][41]”

        You all have a nice day now. So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.

    • Actually Ellison has a good point. This happened once before in the 1850’s. Gradually political violence became normalized by extremists and the result was disastrous. And it is indeed true that Antifa and BLM caused hundreds of causalities and billions in property losses and ruined dreams over the last year. That has normalized political violence especially media and Democrats cheered them on.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Yup, January 2021 is indeed Bad History Month. /:

      • The climate enforcer as usual cites no facts and denies reality. BTW, Ted Wheeler was assaulted again this week at a restaurant. I’ll let you do some research and educate yourself on who the perpetrators were.

        This is too important for children like Josh and angry old men. There are a growing number of people who are very worried about a civil war. That would be much harder on angry old men and mental children than on functional adults who can still defend themselves.

        Murder rates in Democrat run cities this year are up by a lot in some cases more than 50%. Those are real innocent victims of BLM and their demands.

      • Antifa didn’t cause hundreds of casualties and billions in damage? I don’t think we can believe the guy who thinks skinheads landed slaves in Virginia in 1619.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Please list the so-called “hundreds of casualties” if you don’t mind. TIA

        The list the billions of $$$ property losses if you don’t mind. TIA

        Both requests must be from direct links to the the MSM and not nutbar wingnut media (or NWM). Sorry, but we need something other than alternative facts.

        Not in good form to simply repeat another persons deeply flawed rhetoric either.

      • I checked insured losses before commenting. You look it up.

      • Sargent, The first thing that came up doing a search says exactly what Robert and I said about damages.

        https://www.axios.com/riots-cost-property-damage-276c9bcc-a455-4067-b06a-66f9db4cea9c.html

        My question to you is are you lazy to type a few words into a search engine or just too afraid of what you might find?

        You can do your own research on casualties. Certianly in Chicago alone, hundreds have died in the strong upsurge in crime after the riots.

      • Everett F Sargent

        1-2 is 1-2 billion. Not billions. Lives lost show the antifa amd BLM loses. Those making claims need to provide links. So stop moving the goal posts to other people. If you make claims then you need to provide said evidence for those claims, not the other side in your poorly formed rhetorical style.

        So make a claim AND provide a link that supports your claim. Really simple stuff.

      • The $1-2B is insured losses. I was comfortable going with billions. Does that make a jot of difference? And the question is rhetorical.

      • There have been about 25 to 30 deaths attributed to the rioting this summer. Only one that I could find that was a protestor shot by a cop. A guy in Los Vegas who wouldn’t put down his gun. Based on available info his fellow protestors asked him why he was carrying a gun also. Sounds more like a nutter than an actual political protestor based on available info.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Black Homeowners Struggle to Get Insurers to Pay Claims
        https://www.nytimes.com/2020/12/29/business/black-homeowners-insurance-claim.html
        Black policyholders suspect discrimination as they deal with insurers, but it is impossible to prove because the insurers keep a lid on claims data.

        Somehow claims actually paid is the only real numbers I care about. But they are a sekrit or so it would appear.

      • Everett F Sargent

        OK. Mia culpa. I had no idea that insurance estimates were so high for the 2020 riots.

        Deaths directly attributable to those 2020 riots is a different matter though. That one requires a list of actual fatalities.

      • I said casualty and not fatality.

      • Everett F Sargent

        OK. Mea culpa II. Sorry for any confusion on my part.

      • Everett F Sargent

        OK. Let’s rewind this tape …

        Ignorant yours truly, me, myself and I did not know that the 2020 riots caused billions of damage and hundreds of casualties.

        But David originally stated …

        “And it is indeed true that Antifa and BLM caused hundreds of causalities and billions in property losses and ruined dreams over the last year.”

        And Robert then recycled with …

        “Antifa didn’t cause hundreds of casualties and billions in damage?”

        Both of these statements are incorrect, misleading and false …
        2020–2021 United States racial unrest
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_United_States_racial_unrest

        Parties involved:

        Executive branch of federal government including
        Army
        DOJ
        DHS
        FBI

        Local law enforcement

        Protesters:
        Black Lives Matter
        Antifa
        PSJBGC
        NFAC
        Other groups

        Others:
        Boogaloo movement

        Counterprotesters:
        QAnon supporters
        Three Percenters
        Patriot Prayer
        Proud Boys
        Armed vigilante groups and individuals
        Other groups

        So. in summary, a lot of groups were involved and all together. this lead to associated costs and casualties. Not antifa alone and not BLM and antifa alone as Robert and David would have you believe.

      • You mean rewrite history. The looting and destruction were not caused by police – or I presume proud boys notably. Or indeed peaceful protesters.

      • It’s instructive to review what happened here. Robert makes a completely true and undisputed statement. Two juveniles who are disconnected from reality spend scores of comments sarcastically trying to deflect and deny. Can we just grow up please? And then there is the lengthy dissertation trying to shift blame away from a domestic terrorist organization. Sounds like a sympathizer to me. Oh and then they hypocritically condemn others.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Yes David, you are always right and have never make a mistake ever in your entire life. You are perfect.

        But, I did get through to the entire truth WITHOUT your own perfection, that Wikipedia link …
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020%E2%80%932021_United_States_racial_unrest

        Which anyone can read to get to the entire truth of the matter.

      • So Wikipedia is the final arbiter of truth. And he is pretty good good at Wikipedia erudition. It is a matter of fitting facts to a narrative rather than the pesky alternative of crafting a narrative based on the facts. As he said – if it ‘crushes racism’ looting and destruction is fine. Besides it was everyone else wot done it.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Yes Robert, whatever you say must be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help your God.

        Oh and a definite yes to crushing racism.

      • On the other hand you are God and anyone who disagrees is racist?

  45. Chucklehead China Joe’s first COVID-19 response is a slap in the face of “the science.” The science says two shots are necessary. It isn’t known what the long-term result would be with only one shot – it was tested by “the science.” This guy was a joke before and now we will be the victims of this more on. I’m sure this is just the beginning.

    When Commie-lah steps in, she’ll probably initiative a study of the virus’ gender, ignoring everything else about it.

    Trump was a great President. Now bring in the clowns.

    Fox News contributor Dr. Nicole Saphier said the incoming Biden administration’s plan to release nearly all coronavirus vaccines was wrongheaded when the focus should be on administering the ones already sent out.

    Only 28 percent of the coronavirus vaccines released to the 50 states have been administered thus far, leading Saphier to argue on “Outnumbered” that Biden’s plan to flood the country with more vaccinations would not fix the bottleneck.

    The Trump administration is holding back a wave of coronavirus doses to ensure those who receive their first dose of the Pfizer and Moderna vaccinations get the second one to maximmize their efficacy.

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/biden-coronavirus-vaccine-plan-fix-bottleneck-administering-shots-saphier

  46. The China Joe vision of “unity” probably includes concentraton camps for Trump supporters – all 70 million of them.

    • Everett F Sargent

      All 74 million of them, shipped to China to begin their making of car tags for African and Asian nations. That is what is called a good start.

  47. I’ll defend Jim’s right to say it. It’s as funny as all get out.

  48. Everett F Sargent

    Dominion Voting suing “kraken” lawyer Sidney Powell for $1.3B
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/voting-machine-firm-files-1-3b-defamation-suit-against-kraken-lawyer/

    “Dominion Voting Systems has filed a suit against former Trump campaign attorney Sidney Powell, alleging that her widespread, unfounded conspiracy theories led to both reputational damage to the company and death threats against its employees. Dominion is seeking $1.3 billion in damages.”

    We’re going to make you eat the Kraken. All of it until you explode.

    FBI arrests Republican lawmaker who stormed Capitol with pro-Trump mob
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/fbi-arrests-republican-lawmaker-who-stormed-capitol-with-pro-trump-mob/

    “The West Virginia state lawmaker who was part of a pro-Trump mob that stormed the US Capitol was arrested today and is being charged by federal authorities.”

    A coal miner’s squatter.

    • You do know who the Kraken she is referring to is, don’t you. It is the 305th Military Intelligence Battalion. So eating a battalion would be quite an accomplishment.

  49. Stephen Segrest

    Can people give some “brief” bullet type items of what “SHOULDN’T” be allowed under Free Speech on Social Media?

    • “SHOULDN’T” be allowed under Free Speech on Social Media?

      It is not really a reasonable question. Any online platform needs to censor porn, trolls and unsolicited adverting which are all protected speech under the constitution. If they do not their business would suffer as people leave the platform.

      This reality means private companies need the freedom to make subjective judgement calls on what speech is allowed. If a company wants to drive away every user with conservative viewpoints then they are free to make that business decision.

      That said, government should demand transparency when it comes to the rules and the enforcement for companies with a large share of the market. Government should demand that users have a means to appeal censorship decisions to an independent body that would decide if the company applied reasonably applied its rules.

      • Free Speech is becoming extinct really fast. Much worse problem than the Capitol incursion yesterday!!

        Apple has given Parler, the social network favored by conservatives and extremists, an ultimatum to implement a full moderation plan of its platform within the next 24 hours or face expulsion from the App store.

        https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/ryanmac/apple-threatens-ban-parler

      • jim2,
        Do you believe that Apple should be forced to allow porn apps in their store?
        If not then the you are already against free speech and the only debate is over what gets censored.
        Whether you like it or not people spreading probably false claims about election fraud are guilty of sedition. Companies really have no choice but to act lest their business is harmed by association.

      • Wow, Tim. China would love you too!

        Sedition? In your dreams maybe, but not in the real world.

        In the real world, nothing is perfect, including free speech. Anyone who produced child porn or puts in on the internet should be summarily shot upon conviction. Oh noes, I’m against free speech.

        Grow up already.

      • “Anyone who produced child porn”

        I said porn – the legal kind – not child porn.
        Do you think that Apple should be required to have legal porn apps in their store? Or do you believe a private business should be able to set standards for what they allow on their platforms?

        Immediately after the election claims of fraud were reasonable speech. But after 2 months and 60+ cases no credible evidence has been found. Continuing to claim fraud is free speech with the intent of inciting revolt against the lawful authorities. This is sedition and, like child porn, is against the law.

      • So TimG – The Portland mayor, in charge of the police, and the AG responsible for prosecuting krim – i – nails, turned their backs and allowed the Federal Court house to be attacked. They should be put to death for SEDITION!

    • Everett F Sargent

      Trump (permanently ?) suspended from Twitter. Too little too late.

      • No. Waiting until it he has discredited himself was better. Doing it earlier would have increased the number of people sympathetic to him,

    • “Federal Court house to be attacked”

      I am disgusted as you are at Democrat officials who turned a blind eye to violent and seditious acts by Antifa/BLM supporters. The full weight of the law should be used against people who commit those kinds of acts,

  50. Everett F Sargent

    Permanent suspension of @realDonaldTrump
    https://blog.twitter.com/en_us/topics/company/2020/suspension.html

  51. Dimowits and China are peas in a pod …

    If the government suspects you may be sick, you may be arrested and locked away in solitary confinement and incommunicado for (it goes on to say) “three business days” (later expanded to “five”). After “such person or member of such group shall, upon request, be afforded an opportunity to be heard. If a person or group detained pursuant to subdivision two of this section needs to be detained beyond three business days, they shall be provided with an additional commissioner’s order pursuant to subdivisions two and eight of this section.”

    The good news is that “In no event shall any person be detained for more than sixty days without a court order authorizing such detention.”

    https://wmbriggs.com/post/34109/

  52. Everett F Sargent

    Michael Flynn and Sidney Powell banned from Twitter in QAnon purge
    Q D’ETAT —
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/michael-flynn-and-sidney-powell-banned-from-twitter-in-qanon-purge/

    “Twitter on Friday removed the accounts of several high-profile supporters of President Trump and the QAnon conspiracy theory. Targets included former Trump advisor Michael Flynn and former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell.”

    Release the Kraken!

    Reddit’s largest remaining Trump community banned for “inciting violence”
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/01/reddits-largest-remaining-trump-community-banned-for-inciting-violence/

    “On Friday, Reddit joined this week’s response to violent online rhetoric as spearheaded by President Donald Trump and removed its “r/donaldtrump” community, the site’s largest existing community dedicated specifically to Trump. Visiting any of that community’s pages now leads to a simple message pointing to Reddit’s rules about “inciting violence,” which starts by saying, “Do not post violent content.””

    Release the violent content!

    • ““On Friday, Reddit joined this week’s response to violent online rhetoric as spearheaded by President Donald Trump and removed its “r/donaldtrump” community, the site’s largest existing community dedicated specifically to Trump. ”

      That forum was the major online meeting place for Trump supporters.

      It’s too bad that the usual BS excuses were used. But, as a member of the tech world, I know that it is ruled by far left crazies, and people who may not be far left, but who want to look good in their eyes.

      If conservatives ever regain power, we will need to enact a law enforcing the First Amendment against large platforms. And don’t tell me that they are private businesses and can do what they please – the former is true, the latter is not – they just have a Congressionally granted waiver to do this kind of thing. It’s time to end that. After all, the phone company is not allowed to censor your calls – it’s a common carrier. Is that different from these platforms? I’d say yes, in an important way – some of these platforms are larger than any phone company that ever existed, and have far more users.

      • But Reddit

        > And don’t tell me that they are private businesses and can do what they please

        Lol. Right. Don’t tell me anything that isn’t in agreement with my view and for which I have no answer.

        > After all, the phone company is not allowed to censor your calls.

        It’s a free market entity exercising it’s view of its terms of service. So you’d have the government telling the company what they can/can’t do. No thanks. Meanwhile Trump has prolly the best ability of anyone on the planet to get his views out, but he’s a victim.

        Of course there’s a legit discussion to be had a about the parameters of free speech, But snowflake whining and calling this censorship trivializes that discussion.

        Trump Tweeted out an attack on Pence to a violent mob as they were attacking law enforcement in an effort to get to Pence.

        That’s about as close as you can get to shouting fire in a crowded theater (when there is no fire).

      • > If conservatives ever regain power, we will need to enact a law enforcing the First Amendment against large platforms

        Wow. So much for small government.

        Anyway, but Reddit.

  53. Everett F Sargent

    Michael F!ynn and Sidney P0well banned from Twitter in QAn0n purge
    Q D’ETAT —
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/michael-f!ynn-and-sidney-p0well-banned-from-twitter-in-qan0n-purge/

    “Twitter on Friday removed the accounts of several high-profile supporters of President Trump and the QAn0n conspiracy theory. Targets included former Trump advisor Michael F!ynn and former Trump lawyer Sidney P0well.”

    Release the Kraken!

    Reddit’s largest remaining Trump community banned for “inciting violence”
    https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2021/01/reddits-largest-remaining-trump-community-banned-for-inciting-violence/

    “On Friday, Reddit joined this week’s response to violent online rhetoric as spearheaded by President Donald Trump and removed its “r/donaldtrump” community, the site’s largest existing community dedicated specifically to Trump. Visiting any of that community’s pages now leads to a simple message pointing to Reddit’s rules about “inciting violence,” which starts by saying, “Do not post violent content.””

    Release the violent content!

    • Content isn’t violent, pea brain. Yesterday, the US Army read Dick and Jane Go to School to the Iranian Army! Total and Utter defeat ensued!

      • Everett F Sargent

        Name calling! How low can they go. I will note that I have never report anyone other than one single time elsewhere (that one time was clearly justified).

        But do try to stay on topic. /:

      • Sorry about the pea brain comment. Just exasperated.

  54. US Capitol is the sight of an investigation into the murder of a police officer.

  55. Donald –

    I like to spar. It’s also just a crazy addiction.

    Sometimes I learn something from one of them (although I do wish that more of them would at least occasionally put up a real challenge). Sometimes I deepen my thinking in the process. Many of them are quite amusing (on occasion even intentionally so). Their insults are of no consequence. I like to think that some of them sometimes think things through a but more deeply in spite of themselves.

  56. “Let it happen on purpose” is a pretty good alibi. Darn near impossible to prove intent.
    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/republican-ags-group-sent-robocalls-urging-march-capitol-n1253581
    “An arm of the Republican Attorneys General Association, a national group representing the top law enforcement officers in their states, sent out robocalls encouraging people to march to the U.S. Capitol the day before the building was stormed by a pro-Trump mob.

    “At 1:00 p.m., we will march to the Capitol building and call on Congress to stop the steal,” said the voice on the recording, which was obtained by NBC News.

    The calls, which did not advocate violence or suggest the building should be breached, was sent out by the Rule of Law Defense Fund, a fundraising arm of the Republican Attorneys General Association. “

    • There are few areas of law that are more settled than this. Start here:

      https://reason.com/2021/01/08/did-trump-commit-a-crime-when-he-riled-up-his-supporters-before-they-rioted/

      • Well it was a good plan but when Trump and his all star team of provocateurs retreated to the WH after telling his followers he would be marching with them to the capital he failed to lead his troops in to battle. Coward.
        I think Giuliani rally cry of “trial by combat” was spot on perfect but he bugged out too when the troops assembled for the charge.

    • ““An arm of the Republican Attorneys General Association, a national group representing the top law enforcement officers in their states, sent out robocalls encouraging people to march to the U.S. Capitol the day before the building was stormed by a pro-Trump mob.”

      Yep – a normal American tradition, done by many groups every year. Of course, the media makes sure to imply blame with the “before” clause.

      I was involved myself in organizing such a demonstration. Like I say, common stuff.

      Those thinking the riot was intentional have to ask themselves:

      Why did none of the intelligence organizations (FBI, DC Police intelligence unit, etc) not expect a riot?

      Here’s a likely answer: Trump and his allies have been giving basically the same speech to large crowds of angry followers for months, without riots ensuring. They didn’t expect a riot, didn’t intent a riot, and neither did the other organizations. The Democrat mayor of DC asked that the National Guard not be deployed.

      And, ask yourself – in the hyperbolic media reports of this, how many times was context given – such as the repeated attempts to invade the White House during BLM riots in DC last year or the attack on the Supreme Court?

      • But Antifa.
        But no one could have known.
        But Trump didn’t actually say, “Go and attack peope violently.”

        Trump Tweeted out an attack on Pence at the very same time that his supporters formed a violent mob, screamed for Mike Pence, stormed the Capitol, and engaged in battle with the law enforcement that were protecting Pence, his family, and other legislators.

        But keep deflecting.

      • But just expressing themselves.

      • Deflecting…you keep saying that word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

      • But you said “deflection.”

      • “Who Let the Barbarians Through the Gates?
        The storming of the Capitol on Wednesday was a catastrophic failure of protective law enforcement, as rioters overran Capitol Police barricades and gained access to a building that a lot of police were supposed to be protecting. How did it happen? Who screwed up? And what can be done about it? Benjamin Wittes sat down with Fred Burton, the executive director of the Center for Protective Intelligence at Ontic and a former protective officer; Garrett Graff, a journalist who covers federal law enforcement and who wrote a book about continuity in government; and Lawfare’s executive editor Susan Hennessey. They talked about how bad the failure was on the part of the Capitol Police, who is responsible for it, what can be done now to bring the perpetrators to justice and how we should think about changing security protocols on Capitol Hill going forward.”
        https://lawfare.libsyn.com/who-let-the-barbarians-through-the-gates

  57. Blue Ridge Weather

    I am likewise happy to turn the page after Trump tried unsuccessfully to overturn the election.

  58. Trump has the choice to declare this a free and fair election and that he lost. He can go on national TV and tell his supporters to stand down. He can say he just lost.

    If he doesn’t, hopefully there won’t be violence going forward. If he did, there wouldn’t be violence going forward. If he keeps saying the election was stolen from him, that he won in a landslide, and he will never accept defeat, and there is violence going forward, his supporters will continue to deflect. He could make the difference. If he doesn’t make the difference and there is violence going forward, his cult supporters will continue to deflect.

    Guaranteed.

    • Why would people who voted for Trump need to deflect? Do you understand what physiological deflection is? They were not given a choice between Trump and a saint.

      • psychological

      • Look at these threads.

        But they did it first.
        But they do it to.
        But they do it worse.
        But fringe group.
        But he didn’t specifically say “go physically attack legislators.”
        But they made them do it.
        But Bill Clinton.
        But Twitter.
        But “the left.”
        But….. blah, blah, blah, deflect, deflect, deflect.

        Then read what Ben Sasse had to say. Or Colin Powell. Or Murkowski. Or Romney. For God’s sake, or Graham, or Rubio, or Cruz.

        Compare and contrast.

        Open your eyes.

      • But 1954 was actually the best.

        You deserve some credit.

      • Your comments continue to confuse me. I have said nothing about whether I think Trump should be removed. Progressives claim that the events at the capitol were unprecedented and Trump committed sedition. They weren’t and he didn’t.

        I hope he gets impeached. But if that happens it will happen without a clear violation of the law. Which I believe would be appropriate based on the moral responsibility he has for what happened.

      • > Progressives claim

        Ah. I forgot but progressives.

        > I hope he gets impeached.

        I actually don’t. And even if he does get impeached the chances of him being convicted in 12 days seems vanishingly small to me so what’s the point?

        I’d rather move on. And if he gets impeached it would probably only make the Trump apologists just that much more shrill and whiney. As hard as it is to believe that they could get even more so.

        But I won’t lose any sleep over it if he is impeached.

        At any rate, good riddance.

        Maybe once he’s out of office the American carnage will finally start diminishing.

      • ” But if that happens it will happen without a clear violation of the law.”

        Presidents should be held to a higher standard than “was it legal?”.
        Impeachment is legitimate for any number of offenses that are not specifically illegal including:

        Improperly exceeding or abusing the powers of the office.[1]
        Behavior incompatible with the function and purpose of the office.[1]
        Misusing the office for an improper purpose or for personal gain.[1]

      • “I’d rather move on. And if he gets impeached it would probably only make the Trump apologists just that much more shrill and whiney.”

        The objective of impeachment is to allow the US to move on because without it we will be subjected to 4 years of Trump trying to hijack the Republican party for a second run. The best thing that could happen for the GOP (and the US) is 2024 primary that does not include Trump because that would allow the GOP to debate ideas instead of splitting into Trump and anyone but Trump factions.

        No impeachment and this drama continues.

      • Trump Tweeted out the following as his mob were in the Capitol, engaging in violence, screaming Prnce’s name, and crushing cops in doors to get where Pence was:

        -snip-
        “Mike Pence didn’t have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our Country and our Constitution, giving States a chance to certify a corrected set of facts, not the fraudulent or inaccurate ones which they were asked to previously certify. USA demands the truth!”
        -snip-

        Hmmm. I don’t think the legality of that is terribly clear.

      • That’s about as close as you can get to shouting “fire” in a crowded theater.

      • Tim –

        > The objective of impeachment is to allow the US to move on because without it we will be subjected to 4 years of Trump trying to hijack the Republican party for a second run.

        You think the Senate will vote to convict that quickly, let alone vote to convict at all?

        Otherwise nothing would be better about the next 4 years and it might actually be worse

      • “You think the Senate will vote to convict that quickly, let alone vote to convict at all?”

        I don’t know. But it is in the self interest of many republicans to convict because I don’t think any of them want Trump to run 2024 (especially the ones like Cruz who have their own ambitions). More importantly,many GOP senators have already alienated the Trump base by refusing to over turn the election. They have, electorally speaking, nothing to lose. Also Georgia proved that having Trump involved can actually hurt GOP more than it helps by driving Democrats to the polls. IOW, don’t assume they can’t find 17 to convict.

      • I don’t see it happening. Especially in such a short time frame, no time for an extensive trial.

        It would be fun to see his lawyers trying to explain away Trump tweeting out criticisms of Pence and making phone calls to Senators even as law enforcement were risking their lives to protect Pence (and his family) from a violent mob that was rampaging in the Capitol building.

      • For me the strongest argument for impeachment even though he has only two weeks left is that he couldn’t run again in 2024. If he had months or years left and did something equivalent I think he would almost certainly be impeached.

        His narcissism I could see him running again in 2024 and screwing over the Rs again. I could also see him winning the nomination again in a large field, just as he did in 16.

      • Regarding the current “carnage”, Trump didn’t come to power by accident. The conservative electorate was waiting for someone who would stand up to the vicious attacks on conservatives and constant ass kissing of progressives in the media.

      • > The conservative electorate

        There are a lot of life-long conservatives who reject Trump completely and have from the start.

        They were drummed out of the Republican Party.

        Trump cultists ≠ “conservatives.”

      • That’s right. Trump is more a libertarian than a traditional Republican. If Romney is an example of a “good” Republican, we need a new party.

      • Classical liberalism is pro legal immigration, pro trade, and for small and limited government. Trump is not those things. For example,, the Trump administration ordered a moratorium on evictions because of the pandemic, the government doesn’t have that authority.

      • “Classical liberalism is pro legal immigration, pro trade, and for small and limited government. Trump is not those things. For example,, the Trump administration ordered a moratorium on evictions because of the pandemic, the government doesn’t have that authority.”

        Trump is for legal immigration. But sensibly, he isn’t for unlimited legal immigration. He is also pro-trade. Most of his anti-free-trade actions were defensive in nature. Free trade without reciprocity is a national security and economic trap, as China has shown us so clearly. But at least a little of Trump’s trade actions were not defensive, they were IMO not consistent with classical liberalism.

        It isn’t clear his attitude about big government. But, one of his major pushes was deregulation, which is a small government action.

        But, classical liberalism is also about freedom from government. Trump acted in that vein.

        The moratorium on evictions is defensible on national emergency grounds. In emergencies, ideological guidance is still important, but strict adherence can be fatal.

        Overall, Trump is not very ideological. It’s why I voted against him in the 2016 primary. But, his results were very good, but not perfect, from a conservative standpoint.

      • Libertarian. That’s hilarious.

        He’s all about increasing the power of the state and the exercise of that power (as long as the state helps him to pursue his interests).

        My God, the cultism is all consuming.

      • “You are not motivated by a desire to have the government leave people alone if you support tariffs, stricter immigration controls, limits on tech firms, higher defense and intelligence spending, asset-forfeiture laws, a stepped-up drug war, and much of the social-conservative agenda.

        Maybe the New Year might usher in a truce. If we want the government to leave us alone, then we need to be willing to leave them alone. Until Americans spend less time “owning” the other side and more time restoring some governmental boundaries, all of us will labor under a tightening yoke.”

        Steven Greenhut in the Orange County Register. He said it as well as I could.

    • You are so smart you can tell the future – at least you think you are – it’s nothing but hubris. You don’t know what will happen if Trump does A, B, or C. Do you get paid to troll Climate Etc?

    • Remember:

      “This American carnage stops right here and stops right now?”

      Remember:

      “I alone can fix it.”

  59. Everett F Sargent

    Book ’em Danno …
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DRheWpoVwAAinhN.jpg

  60. UK-Weather Lass

    My father once told me that when good people fight, it is a fair fight, and at the end the opponents shake hands, acknowledge each other and accept the result. He went on to say that when bad people fight, it is never a fair fight, and the bitterness and spite present before the fight gets magnified exponentially afterwards and things just go from bad to worse. Peace in such cases only breaks out when both parties are dead.

    An election is a part of the continuous fight for a free and fair democracy and it is a requirement of all participants to obey the law at all times. That helps to make it a fight between good people. It would seem the 2020 US Election was a fight between bad people with the Democrats being better at fraud than the Republicans this time around. My question is how long have bad people been fighting US Elections (because it didn’t start suddenly with Trump and Biden) and how serious does any political crime have to be before someone somewhere does something sensible about it?

  61. “Democrats being better at fraud than the Republicans this time around.”

    There is no credible evidence of widespread fraud. Audits and recounts have proven that there were no issues with signature checks or machine counts. Republican claims are largely nonsensical conspiracies that can’t be addressed reasonably because they are fundamentally irrational.

    The one area where Republicans do have a semi legitimate case is when it comes to arguments about interpretations of election laws but they fail completely from moral perspective when they demand that legal voters, who followed the rules they were given, should be disenfranchised out because of legal technicalities.

    So there is no “2 bad guys” in this fight even if the Democrats have many other issues where they are morally challenged. There is one side trying to steal an election they lost by undermining the system with conspiracy theories and one side trying to defend its integrity.

    • > There is no credible evidence of widespread fraud.

      Evidence? We don’t need no stinkin’ evidence.

      After all, we’re climate “skeptics” and COVID is a hoax.

    • Signature checks are absolutely meaningless. The consent decree, below, states the signature has to match only the application for a ballot, not the registration signature. The Republicans own this and were complete dumba$$e$ for doing it. But they felt guilty because they were accused of making it more difficult for African-Americans, as if they couldn’t handle voting like everyone else for some reason. It was a fatal mistake and now everyone in the country will pay a high and onerous price for it.

      https://demdoc2.perkinscoieblogs.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/45/2020/07/GA-Settlement-1.pdf

      • IMO. As I see it one side is saying there was massive fraud and the other saying ‘Oh no there wasn’t’.

        One said said the 9/11 attacks were an inside job. The other did not.

        Are you seriously arguing that they should be treated as 2 equally valid claims?

    • UK-Weather Lass

      “There is one side trying to steal an election they lost by undermining the system with conspiracy theories and one side trying to defend its integrity.”

      That is a very poor conclusion IMO. As I see it one side is saying there was massive fraud and the other saying ‘Oh no there wasn’t’. That’s pantomime isn’t it?

      • Not even one side is saying there has been massive fraud!
        Donald Trump and his fanatical supporters, plus a fair amount of Republican politicians, are saying there was fraud.
        The other side – which includes everyone involved in the voting system and the judicial system, as well as the Democrats – are saying there wasn’t. And there wasn’t, because there is no sign or proof that there was. You know, in the real world.
        So, in the real world there was no fraud. In Trump world there was.

      • Everyone wants to repeat the talking points of the MSM as god given truth without looking at alternative points of view. Here is an analysis by Harvard educated economist and professor Peter Navarro which lays out the case for fraud in detail. If you are going to say there is nothing there, after you decide no one, including yourself, should look there, then you are little more than a useful idiot. Look, analyze, critique, add something to the conversation beyond parroting.
        https://bannonswarroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/The-Immaculate-Deception-12.15.20-1.pdf

  62. The Rasmussen poll, one of the most accurate polls of the 2020 election, finds President Trump’s approval is actually rising after Wednesday‘s protests.

    As Democrats move to impeachment and some establishment Republicans call for the 25th Amendment to remove Trump, the poll finds 48% approve of the President’s job performance.

    A source close to the polling firm tells Newsmax that the rolling survey saw Trump’s approval soar to 51% on Thursday night.

    https://www.newsmax.com/us/rasmussen/2021/01/08/id/1004872/

  63. “Signature checks are absolutely meaningless. The consent decree, below, states the signature has to match only the application for a ballot, not the registration signature.”

    The application is only accepted if valid photo ID is provided or if the signature matches the registration signature. IOW, the signature check is done at application time so you have no valid argument.

    More importantly you ignore the reason for the consent decree: signatures change over time and can be different if they are written on a paper vs an electronic pad. Blind insistence on only one way to match signatures has the effect of tossing out many legitimate ballots. This is why a judge ruled that the rules needed to change. The consent decree was a negotiated settlement rather than an solution imposed by the court.

    • OK, how does an absentee voter supply a photo ID TimG? Those are evaluated only by signature on the application OR registration. This is why use of absentee ballots was expanded – to enable fraud.

      • You have to upload a scan of your photo ID to the web portal used to submit an application. The ID is cross checked with state records. Signature match is done against state records.

        If the application is mailed in the signature on the application form is checked against state records. No ID is required in this case but signature match is against the application.

        So ID is not required unless the web portal is used. If it is used it is required. The Georgia system is remarkable robust with numerous checks and counter checks. It is absurd that so many lies have been spread about it.

        Spare us the hyperbole. You know that COVID made voting in person risky and no one should have to put their life at risk to vote. Expanding absentee ballots is a rational thing to do for anyone that cares about the right to vote.

      • TimG – I supplied a link to voter instructions in Georgia. Read it!

      • Jim2 – your link has a link to the secure web portal which is now down because the elections are over. You are only looking at one half of the information.

    • You are not required to provide identification when you vote absentee by mail.

      https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/elections/georgia_voter_identification_requirements2

      • Everybody who has a voter registration card in Georgia has provided photo ID and birth certificate or equivalent at some point. Many people are automatically registered when they apply for a driver’s license which has the same requirements.

        They also have an address associated with each to which the absentee ballot was sent.

        There have been instances of people (usually living at the same residence) requesting absentee ballots for dead relatives, then voting for them and forging the signature. But these instances of this sort are usually less than a dozen in most elections and I think in November they were mostly or entirely Trump votes. The number of dead people on the rolls in Georgia is probably small because the state has been vigorous, actually too vigorous from the various lawsuits that have ensued, in purging people.

        A random audit of thousands of absentee ballots in Georgia found zero fraudulent ballots. The few that were suspected by signature matching were investigated by interviewing the people and found to be legitimate ballots. People’s signatures change over time, particularly as they get older and less motor control issues like Parkinson’s.

    • Are you incapable of reading Georgia’s own instructions for mail-in ballots? Can you follow web links? What exactly is your problem. If you can’t read this excerpt, you are beyond help!

      Vote By Mail: Voters can request an absentee ballot 180 days before an election without providing a reason. To vote by mail, send or bring a written request to your county registrar’s office that includes your name, address, signature, and the election for which you are requesting an absentee ballot. You can also go online at http://www.sos.ga.gov/elections, print and complete the application, and return it to your county registrar’s office. The county registrar’s office will mail your ballot after the application is approved and ballots are available. Your county registrar must receive your absentee ballots by the close of business on Election Day. Voters are not required to provide photo identification when voting by mail. Vote Early in Person: Voters may vote

      https://sos.ga.gov/admin/files/Voting_3_panel_for_website.pdf

    • James Cross – and nothing you said here demonstrates the need for anything other than a signature on the application and one on the external envelope containing the ballot. A person may have had a photograph from a roller coaster at Disney World, and that won’t come into play either.

      You guys are trying to obfuscate the truth. Read the dam n text. It doesn’t take a genius to understand it.

      • And nothing you’ve said here indicates there was any massive fraud.

      • What I am saying is that the consent decree made massive fraud possible. There were a huge number of mail-in ballots. This by itself undermines faith in the election.

      • Nope. The application signature is matched to voter registration and the returned ballot is again matched. ” Not only is it entirely possible to match signatures, but that the state requires it”.

        But again no evidence of any fraud let alone enough fraud to change the results.

        quotes

        TRUMP: “The Consent Decree signed by the Georgia Secretary of State, with the approval of Governor @BrianKempGA, at the urging of @staceyabrams, makes it impossible to check & match signatures on ballots and envelopes, etc. They knew they were going to cheat. Must expose real signatures!”

        THE FACTS: There is nothing in the consent decree that prevents Georgia election clerks from scrutinizing signatures. The legal settlement signed in March addresses accusations about a lack of statewide standards for judging signatures on absentee ballot envelopes.

        Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger, a Republican, said that not only is it entirely possible to match signatures, but that the state requires it.

        When a voter requests an absentee ballot on a paper application, he or she must sign it. Election officials compare that signature to the signature in voter registration files before a ballot is sent to the voter, Raffensperger said.

        When those ballots are returned, the required signature on the outer envelope is compared to signatures in the voter registration system.

        This process was spelled out in detail in the consent decree,

        https://apnews.com/article/ap-fact-check-donald-trump-georgia-elections-voter-registration-40bb602e6f0facf8eecc331e83ab36e0

      • OK, James. I’ve posted documents from the Georgia web site that says you are dead wrong. You post a link to a document stating an application signature is matched to voter registration one. You blather on and on but with zero evidence. Fortunately, anyone reading this thread can find out for themselves who is right – and it ain’t you.

      • And I don’t want any articles from AP. I’ve posted a link to the consent decree and other documents from the STATE OF GEORGIA web site – and it means you are wrong and AP is wrong. Link to something official.

    • One can argue against signature verification if you want. Though it is not convincing if a signature is kicked out and voters are notified they need to cure their ballots. The real reason is that a consent decree is illegal. Under article two of the Constitution only state legislators can set and determine voting procedures. That excludes not only the executive including AG offices and election officials, but also courts. Any change in the procedure which is against the explicit rules set by the legislature are ipso facto unconstitutional.

  64. While Pence and his family were being protected from a violent mob that was screaming Prnce’s name, what was the president doing?

    -snip-

    Trump first called the personal cell phone of Lee, a Utah Republican, shortly after 2 p.m. ET. At that time the senators had been evacuated from the Senate floor and were in a temporary holding room, as a pro-Trump mob began breaching the Capitol.

    Lee picked up the phone and Trump identified himself, and it became clear he was looking for Tuberville and had been given the wrong number. Lee, keeping the President on hold, went to find his colleague and handed Tuberville his phone, telling him the President was on the line and had been trying to reach him.

    Trump pressured Pence to engineer a coup, then put the VP in danger, source says
    Trump pressured Pence to engineer a coup, then put the VP in danger, source says
    Tuberville spoke with Trump for less than 10 minutes, with the President trying to convince him to make additional objections to the Electoral College vote in a futile effort to block Congress’ certification of President-elect Joe Biden’s win, according to a source familiar with the call. The call was cut off because senators were asked to move to a secure location.

    -snip-

    • So in addition to tweeting out criticisms of Pence even as the mob was screaming for Pence’s blood, Trump was also making calls to try to Senators to try to convince them to break with constitutionally prescribed procedures.

      Now watch the sycophants deflect.

    • Coup? Oh yeah, that’s it … COUP!!! What a crock. Not even the Dimowits believe that – although since they operate via fraud and lies, they will say it.

      • Lol. That was from headlines from the website.

        Nice deflection though:

        But democrats said “coup.”

      • I think when they were speaking about a “coup” they were talking about when Trump was trying to convince Pence to break with his constitutionally prescribed duties.

        Then when Pence said he wouldn’t do so, Trump Tweeted out criticisms of Pence as a violent mob was screaming Pence’s name as law enforcement were putting their lives in the line to protect Pence, his family, and hundred is other legislators.

        In between making phone calls to Senators who where being held up hiding from the mob.

        It’s amazing that you’ll still defend that.

        Bur no doubt you will.

        It’s what a cult member does.

  65. I don’t agree with the use of the word “storming”.
    There was some violence – it was far less than the “mostly peaceful’ protests over the summer. Certainly there did not seem to be the mass defacement that occurred with the BLM protests.
    Equally, the notion that “lots of good bipartisan legislation was passed” in the Clinton years is highly questionable. Do you refer to the repeal of Glass-Steagall? What about telecom deregulation? The capping of tax deductibility for executive pay at $1M – which led directly to the insane stock grants+buybacks of today?
    We already know what the Biden administration will do: think of an even more gutless Obama and the Senator from MBNA won’t disappoint.
    Here’s what I guarantee won’t happen:
    1) No Medicare For All or any other form of real health reform.
    2) Return to the job offshoring ways of Obama, Bush and Clinton. Screw the little people.
    3) More foreign adventures
    These are the top 3 areas I consider of vital importance to most Americans today – and Biden will be on the wrong side of every single one of them.

  66. As I have been saying for a long time, Twitter has gone further and further in banning free speech, and tonight, Twitter employees have coordinated with the Democrats and the Radical Left in removing my account from their platform, to silence me — and YOU, the 75,000,000 great patriots who voted for me.

    Twitter may be a private company, but without the government’s gift of Section 230 they would not exist for long. I predicted this would happen and have been negotiating with various other sites, and will have a big announcement soon, while we also look at the possibilities of building out our own platform in the near future. We will not be SILENCED! Twitter is not about FREE SPEECH. They are all about promoting a Radical Left platform where some of the most vicious people in the world are allowed to speak freely. STAY TUNED.

    https://www.breitbart.com/tech/2021/01/08/message-from-the-president-on-social-media-censorship/

    • They guy used Twitter to tweet out criticism of Pence to a violent mob screaming Trump’s name as law enforcement put their lives on the line to protect Pence and his family.

      It’s freakin’ shouting fire in a crowded theater.

    • “Twitter may be a private company, but without the government’s gift of Section 230 they would not exist for long”

      This argument is exhibit A in case for why Trump is fundamentally a moron.

      Without Section 230 Twitter could be sued for the harm caused by Trump’s own tweets which would mean they would have an even greater incentive to shut him down. The same would be true of Parler – “free speech” Twitter except Parler would be shutdown by lawsuits long before Twitter.

      The only argument to be made is an anti-trust argument where Twitter due to its market dominance should have specific free speech requirements imposed on it as a condition of an anti-Trust settlement. But that has nothing to with Section 230.

  67. It really is a thing to behold the Left’s active effort to send all the riots, unrest, and fires of the past several years down the memory hole. When Ferguson, Missouri, was set on fire by Black Lives Matter and Lisa Fithian-trained shock troops, no one called for Barack Obama to be taken off Twitter, Facebook, or any other social media.

    However, his wife, Michelle Obama, this week called for the permanent removal of President Trump from all social media platforms because of Wednesday’s siege at the Capitol Building.

    The next day he was.

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/victoria-taft/2021/01/09/michelle-obama-gave-the-order-for-big-tech-to-delete-president-trump-from-social-media-platforms-n1325526

    • It’s like the ‘orange man’ is being made to pay for all of our collective sins… does the Left understand they’re turning him into a modern-day Jesus…?

  68. Sullivan said he also intended to “support the Black community” with his attendance, but also feels it was “important to understand” those who were protesting in support of President Donald Trump.

    But some of the 40-minute video he posted to his social media sites contradicts his assertion that he and another woman were “only filming” the actions and not participating as he can be heard in the video encouraging people to join them as they push their way through police barricades.

    Just after people broke into the building, Sullivan — wearing a gas mask and wielding an iPhone on a stabilizing stick — and a woman who said Wednesday that she was making a documentary on Sullivan, are on the first porch area outside the entrance looking back over the throngs of people around the Capitol. They can be heard encouraging people to climb the wall, saying, “Come on. Let’s go!”

    https://pjmedia.com/news-and-politics/bryan-preston/2021/01/08/leader-of-far-left-insurgence-usa-group-encouraged-rioters-to-enter-the-capitol-n1325304

  69. Here’s another video of Capitol Police standing down as protesters enter the building.

    https://twitter.com/i/status/1347596278583197698

    • Lol.

      They let them do it.

      • Any octogenarian with behavior like pixilated Pelosi would have relatives intervening and having “That conversation “… “Ma, it’s about time. You know Ma, what we’ve talked about before. We promise to visit you. Cross our hearts. Really, it will be alright.”

        Instead, this octogenarian just lost the House and Senate in 2022 and the White House in 2024. Way to go, Nanc, Ol’ girl.

      • jungletrunks

        D.C. Mayor, Bowser, refused extra security in preparation for the protest. She openly downplayed the need for extra security, even though the planned protest presented every indication of being a massive gathering. I suppose a logical path for a conspiracy theory could be that D.C. officials, Leftists in general, feigned a belief that beefed up security was unwarranted (demonstrable in their presentation here). Implicit within the belief was that there little chance this protest could present itself with elevated emotions, and destruction. So was downplaying security here a plan? But it’s indeed the reality. And the political benefits: let protestors destroy as Leftists radicals were allowed to do previously, in cities across the nation. Let these D.C. protestors cross important barricades to facilitate blame against Trump, blithely utilize ‘plants’ to enhance effect, maybe. With not much luck, possibly secure a great political score with the dutiful help of the MSM going forward. The odds are good based on the sheer depth of the resistance, and having the simpatico broad media as cover.

        Does not the radical Left remain true to its definition of ‘The Resistance’?But where does resistance end, and sedition begin? Regardless, don’t people need to release pent up emotion? This is the politically correct way, after all, and it has previously worked for the Left to great effect. In the end the Left can blame Trump for it all if played correctly, and in the process obfuscate Leftist past transgressions of raising communities to the ground across the nation, much of it bought and paid for by Leftist benefactors for the resistance.

        https://twitter.com/MayorBowser/status/1346530358674792466/photo/1

  70. I see that my comment is still awaiting moderation

  71. Trump expresses regret about committing to peaceful transition of power

    No regret about the coup attempt that resulted in five deaths.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/08/us/politics/democrats-trump-impeachment.html

    • Maybe TDS should be Trump’s Derangement Syndrome.

      It may require an entirely new psychiatric designation.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Trump is their figurehead and very effective in that role.

        But I think that Trump appeasers (or apologists or supporters) are the biggest threat to American democracy at this time.

        Rally around the Confederate Battle Flag Proud Boys …
        https://static01.nyt.com/images/2021/01/07/arts/08xp-Confederate-image/08xp-Confederate-image-superJumbo-v3.jpg

      • “Trump is their figurehead and very effective in that role.

        But I think that Trump appeasers (or apologists or supporters) are the biggest threat to American democracy at this time.

        Rally around the Confederate Battle Flag Proud Boys …”

        Hardly. Yes, there are some nuts – especially qAnon. And some will attach themselves to any vocal group like the Proud Boys.

        But a couple of things on your Confederate Battle Flag post. First, it is egregious – it appears to paint Trump supporters as racists. That’s risible – very few are. I am a Trump supporter and I resent that.

        Second, that flag is also a symbol of southern culture, so if you see an old guy with one, he may have no meaning other than showing his southern roots. Yes, it is also used by racists, but that isn’t the only reason people show it.

        Heck, it was used in The Dukes of Hazard TV series on the roof their car, and nobody paid any attention because back then. Americans knew that southerners used that flag for cultural, not racist reasons. And we also knew about the terrible history of the south – segregation was only a decade or so in the past at the time. We knew the difference between the racism of George Wallace and the country culture of southern “good old boys.” I served with many of them in the military, and most were not racists. And yeah, we had blacks in even larger number in our unit – racism would have been noticed – and squashed.

        Now, the left reacts to what the left, and only the left, sees as dog whistles. There are dog whistles everywhere, if that’s your think. It’s really pretty sad.

        But on the more general trend… why are Trump supporters the biggest threat? And do you recognize that there are a hell of a lot more Trump supporters than their are the few radicals – the qAnon kooks, or the Proud Boys? Do you realize that most of us who support Trump did not go break into the Capitol, and that even most who went to the rally did not?

        Why are we a bigger threat than those on the left who are successfully censoring people right an left, getting people fired for something they said or did years ago, smearing Supreme Court justice nominees, calling for court packing, etc?

        Is it because we look mean or something? Is it because we have guns? Is it because most veterans, including myself, are Trump supporters?

        Why are we so scary to you guys?

        Below, the car from the Dukes of Hazard.

        General Lee Car.

    • “No regret about the coup attempt that resulted in five deaths.”

      Once again, the left butchers the language. Trump did not stage a coup attempt. Neither did his supporters. Coups are illegal seizure of government, by force.

      That did not happen and obviously was never attempted.

      Trump’s tweets and messages are not coup attempts. They were not order, and trying to get Pence to act differently was not thought to be unconstitutional by some. In any case, he cannot order around the VP, and he knows that, and the VP did his duty appropriately.

      If you want a coup attempt by leftist standards, then the Russia collusion investigation was certainly one. It violated constitutionally protected civil liberties, scapegoated innocents, and attempted by illegal means to unseat the President. It is only the diligent efforts by conservative and libertarian journalists and legal foundations that uncovered the plotting and the illegal actions. The “mainstream media,” of course, participated in the coverup, and does to this day.

      • But they said “coup.”

      • But Russia.
        But mainstream media.
        But Trump is a victim.

      • ” It violated constitutionally protected civil liberties, scapegoated innocents, and attempted by illegal means to unseat the President.”

        Trump’s baseless claims of massive fraud are sedition.
        Trump’s attempts pressure state officials into falsifying election results are obstruction of justice.
        Trump’s call for the VP to ignore the constitution and the law to overturn the results of an election most certainly fit the definition of coupe.
        Trump’s manipulation of a mob with baseless claims of a stolen election led directly to the deaths of 5 people including 1 police officer is incitement.

        Yet despite all that you want to whinge about a out of control FBI investigation that was at least has some prima facie evidence to support it even if the FBI went on abuse their authority.

        Trump is the biggest threat to American democracy at this time,

      • That’s not how it works. Whatever threat Trump posed to American democracy ended last week.

  72. On one level I don’t really want to get involved in US politics but felt compelled to post this interview with Kamala Harris. I was quietly astounded to see her openly commend the former BLM rioting:

    https://youtu.be/XMOl6gVurBM

  73. On one level I don’t really want to get involved in US politics but felt compelled to post this interview with Kamala Harris. I was quietly astounded to see her openly commend the former BLM rioting:

    https://youtu.be/XMOl6gVurBM

    ..

  74. The ‘orange man’ has been crushed on Twitter and now I see his attorney, Mr Rudy Giuliani, has been silenced on Parler as well. Living in California I looked to fly-over country with the expectation they’d be able to save the nation, as they did in 2016 but, the 2020 elections and the subsequent loss of free speech as we see happening now, has dashed that hope but… not all hope.

    • Nobody has taken away Trump’s or anybody else’s right to free speech. Some private companies whose rights most of you love to defend have just stopped giving him a free platform. He has billions of dollars. Let him buy his own platform.

      • It’s like saying no one has interfered with your ability to cook breakfast when they turn the gas off to your house – you can always buy a Coleman stove…

      • “Nobody has taken away Trump’s or anybody else’s right to free speech. Some private companies whose rights most of you love to defend have just stopped giving him a free platform. ”

        Surely, you’re joking.

        Trump has a few billion, nothing like the amount that Facebook controls.

        But many of the rest of us are not billionaires. How about the 70,000 plus users of Reddit’s r/donaldtrump who were just cut off with no warning. Should they go out and start their own? Oh, wait – they don’t know who the others are to organize with, they just lost their comms!

        Those “private companies” are among the largest in the world, and have monopolies over specific means of communications, means used by billions of people. They have immense power.

        By your logic, I guess we shouldn’t regulate the electric utilities, right? Lose your power, hey, start your own power company.

      • I never thought you guys would be for government regulation. Industries are heavily regulated in most cases where there are single providers. But even with utilities there has been progressive deregulation of the industries and many providers. This has been a major conservative issue.

        There are multiple outlets where Mr. Trump can make his views known even if it doesn’t want to build his own Twitter. God knows, the guy has had enough free publicity on Fox News, Breitbart, NewsMax, and such. And already a bunch of alternatives to FB and Twitter for the right-wing loons have sprung up. So he shouldn’t have any problem getting his views to the people who want to listen to them.

      • How facebook and twitter be required to allow legal porn?

        If the answer is “no” then you are acknowledging that any private company has a right to decide what is appropriate for its platform. IOW, free speech is not valid argument.

        OTOH, you could make an anti-trust argument and these platforms could be forced to agree to certain content moderation policies as part of an anti-trust settlement. But there needs to be an anti-trust suit first.

        Use the right tool for the right job.

      • “How facebook and twitter be required to allow legal porn?

        If the answer is “no” then you are acknowledging that any private company has a right to decide what is appropriate for its platform. IOW, free speech is not valid argument.”

        Straw man argument. Regulations would allow censorship of illegal content. Regulations could also be different for content viewed by minors.Regulations could also allow self censorship of user groups on the platforms. In fact, Reddit had that, and yet they still shut down a major conservative rallying point.

        Your argument seems to be that platforms can regulate any way that want, and the only alternative is to allow objectionable content where everyone can see it.

        That’s not very creative.

      • Everett F Sargent

        “So he shouldn’t have any problem getting his views to the people who want to listen to them.”

        Exactly.

        IMHO the nationally mandated airing of (somewhat-to-mostly older white male) grievances comes to an end in T-11 and counting.

      • “Straw man argument. Regulations would allow censorship of illegal content.”

        Read what was written. Porn involving consenting adults is LEGAL and protected speech under the 1st amendment. Yet few people an issue with it being censored.

        “Your argument seems to be that platforms can regulate any way that want, and the only alternative is to allow objectionable content where everyone can see it.”

        My argument is there is no free speech argument. Platforms must be able to remove any content they see as bad for their business. Government has no business interfering.

        However, with FB and Twitter there is an anti-trust argument and they could be forced to agree to certain moderation policies. But these policies would be specific to these large companies with dominate market presence.

      • ???My argument is there is no free speech argument. Platforms must be able to remove any content they see as bad for their business. Government has no business interfering.”

        You are correct that there’s no First Amendment argument. That does not mean there’s no free speech argument.

        And in general, businesses should be able to run their businesses by their own rules. But we are talking about the biggest monopolies in world history – at least, for FB.

        “However, with FB and Twitter there is an anti-trust argument and they could be forced to agree to certain moderation policies. But these policies would be specific to these large companies with dominate market presence.”

        There is also a criminal issue. From big-dog litigator John O’Neil today:

        “Many conservative sites now being banned in illegal collusive action by Big Tech. Because of the flood of people leaving FB for Parler it has now been removed from the Apple App Store . Sites like Bannon War Room etc all disabled along with Trump twitter. A criminal violation of the Sherman Act Section 2 which criminalizes collusion to maintain or create a monopoly.”

        [Note: later he added Section 1 to the list]

      • The Democrat-Big Tech censorship alliance just ran a masterclass in media control for dictators around the world.

        When President Donald Trump’s supporters forced their way inside the US Capitol on Wednesday, they did not act as a unified force bent on seizing power. Instead they snapped selfies, looted souvenirs, and engaged in petty vandalism. While the rampage ended in tragedy for the protester shot dead by police, the police officer fatally injured, and the three others who suffered “medical emergencies” and died, it was soon snuffed out and Congress returned to work that evening to certify Joe Biden’s electoral victory.

        Yet politicians on all sides and their enablers in the media swiftly declared it an “armed insurrection,” a “coup attempt,” and an example of “domestic terrorism.” ‘Never Trump’ Republican Kurt Bardella described Wednesday’s events as “symbolically worse than Pearl Harbor or 9/11”.

        Silicon Valley made an unprecedented move. Trump was permanently banned from Twitter, his primary means of communication with the public, while thousands of accounts belonging to his supporters were deleted. Facebook and other platforms have done likewise.

        As the country’s most despicable journalists and pundits cheer for the unaccountable tech tyrants, budding dictators abroad are surely taking notes. Building relationships with the tech titans is the modern equivalent of seizing a television studio, and popular movements can be easily suppressed with their cooperation. If the world’s loudest and proudest democracy is doing it, why can’t they?

        And who’s to say Silicon Valley’s giants themselves would stop at the US border? What is to stop them taking a dislike to some politician overseas and snuffing them out like Donald Trump? After all if the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth can be deleted, what chance do the rest of them have?

        Back in the US, Trump has far more supporters than the mob who broke into the Capitol on Wednesday. He has 75 million of them, more than the population of the UK. Denied the opportunity to speak freely online and with their views branded as “extremist,” would anyone be surprised if they decided to take more drastic action?

        https://www.rt.com/op-ed/512044-capitol-democrats-coup-trump/

  75. quotes

    White supremacists and other rightwing extremists have been responsible for 67% of domestic terror attacks and plots so far this year, with at least half of that violence targeting protesters, according to a new analysis from a centrist thinktank.

    The report found only a single deadly “far-left” attack in 2020, the shooting of Aaron Danielson, a rightwing activist, by a self-described “anti-fascist” during a protest in Portland this August. Experts on extremism said this was the first killing linked to an anti-fascist in the United States in 25 years.

    Violent rightwing actors were responsible for 41 politically motivated attacks and plots this year, while “far-left” actors were responsible for 12, according to analysts at the Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS), who have assembled a database of domestic terror attacks going back to 1994.

    The new data stands in stark contrast to claims by Donald Trump and justice department officials, who have responded to massive protests against police violence and racism by arguing that leftwing violence is a major threat, and that anti-fascist, or “antifa,” activists should be designated as a domestic terror group.

    http://www.milwaukeeindependent.com/syndicated/rightwing-violence-white-supremacist-groups-found-behind-years-domestic-terror-attacks/

    • James –

      Just sayin’ every time you engage in the “But Antifa” discussion you’re engaging with the deflection.

    • I don’t have time to dig into this, but what about dollars of property damage and life-long businesses lost?

    • Absolutely amazing. I guess you can pull it off if you don’t consider burning, looting, and destruction of property “domestic terrorism.” I guess it was all for a good cause and that excuses it.

      • “Absolutely amazing. I guess you can pull it off if you don’t consider burning, looting, and destruction of property “domestic terrorism.” I guess it was all for a good cause and that excuses it.”

        It’s funny – the left loves to decry arguments that “others do it, so it’s okay” (although that’s not what we are saying). Then they go find a tangential “study” that shows others do it, to show that BLM riots aren’t such a big deal.

        The problem with these studies is that the definitions are chosen in a way to produce a desired result. Since there are a lot more whites than African Americans, it’s not surprising that they can find more extremists among them.

        And, they are targeting narrow categories – “terrorism” which apparently does not include looting and burning, because somehow those don’t inspire terror, or something.

        It was also quite telling how the left dialed down the riots just in time for the election, not at all a coincidence that this was after polls showed that allowing rioting and looting and “autonomous zones” was hurting leftist candidates. Even having their tame media call riots “mostly peaceful protests” wasn’t enough to hide it. So, the word went out, and the rioting and looting almost completely stopped.

        But hey, they’ll be back if we ever get another Republican President. But it will be “justified grievances” or something that makes it okay, just as it did last summer. Even “black” Kamala Harris justified it.

      • Everett F Sargent

        If it crushes racism then so be it. Racism is very much in the soil of this nation.

      • “If it crushes racism”? So burning and destruction and looting are OK if the end justifies the means? Whatever happened to peaceful protests?

        Can my group burn and loot if we feel we’ve got a good cause? How about we all get out there and burn and loot and destroy for the injustices we suffer– all you folks near the bottom of the income ladder, get out there, protest the vast income gap. Burn and destroy: you’ve got a good cause.

        Next up: women. Women across the nation can get out there and burn and destroy, because they’ve suffered injustices. Rise up!

        Who next? How about policemen? They’ve been attacked unjustly, can they get out there and burn and destroy to right this injustice?

        If we feel the media is feeding us largely BS, can we go out there and burn and destroy to call attention to what we perceive as a grave injustice and threat?

        OK, Joshua’s turn: can he get out there with his group and protest the widespread adherence to conspiracy theories that allowed such things as “Q-Shaman” in the capitol building? It’s wrong and it’s hurting us all, so can Josh get out there and burn and destroy for a good cause? After all, he’s sick and tired of it, and so are a lot of other people who really know what’s best for us all.

        Maybe we should just call a spade a spade? It ain’t “justified.”

  76. Everett F Sargent

    T-11 and counting …
    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DL9ctB_VAAA9y1N.jpg
    Oh and please remember that they were your fools but our foils.

  77. Everett F Sargent

    ADIOS —
    Google bans Parler from Android app store
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/google-bans-parler-from-android-app-store/

    “In a statement to Ars, Google said it was enforcing long-standing policies requiring that social media apps remove “egregious content like posts that incite violence.”

    • The government should step in and tell Google how to conduct their business. That’s how to create small government. Anyone who is small government would want the government to do that.

      Oh, and Trump only cares about Americans.

    • “ADIOS —
      Google bans Parler from Android app store”

      I take it that you are not in favor of free speech.

      There is some horribly obnoxious stuff on Parler, that doesn’t mean that most posters are putting up anything bad. I have an account, but I don’t usually go there because I don’t like the content. But being prevented from going there by a Silicon Valley giant is deeply offensive to me, and I view it as very dangerous.

      We have laws against certain kinds of speech. Why do you cheer when one of the largest monopolies goes beyond those laws, using its own standards, to shut down an app.

      This app does not expose anyone to that speech except those who choose to use the app. There are only two companies who control virtually all app access for every mobile device in the world. The one not mentioned here (that will ban Parler tomorrow) is happy banning apps that provide free speech to Chinese dissidents. Nice to know that you are in their camp.

      Aside: the exceptions to that control are:

      1)A Chinese company that is banned from using Google’s Android because of its CCP ties.

      2) Amazon – another tech giant that has its own Android version. They have demonstrated their own pleasure in censoring conservative speech.

      3) A large game company that provides side loading for Android apps. They are so big that their users know to go there, and that their apps are safe.

      4) A few sketchy app stores where you can download Android apps at great risk.

      • I’m a small government conservative who decries the impact of regulation on the economy who wants the government to step in and regulate how private companies can provide their services.

    • And where was Google this past summer? What language inciting violence was it banning then? Please show me, I honestly want to see it. Because I’m certain big tech is being fair-handed about all this.

    • It is of course a false dichotomy – or a strawman as they like to say – smaller government does not mean no government. At some 36% of GDP spent by government in the US – government is more than 10% bigger than the limit for optimal economic growth.

  78. “Let me now state what seems to me the decisive objection to any conservatism which deserves to be called such. It is that by its very nature it cannot offer an alternative to the direction in which we are moving. It may succeed by its resistance to current tendencies in slowing down undesirable developments, but, since it does not indicate another direction, it cannot prevent their continuance. It has, for this reason, invariably been the fate of conservatism to be dragged along a path not of its own choosing. The tug of war between conservatives and progressives can only affect the speed, not the direction, of contemporary developments. But, though there is need for a “brake on the vehicle of progress,” I personally cannot be content with simply helping to apply the brake. What the liberal must ask, first of all, is not how fast or how far we should move, but where we should move.” https://press.uchicago.edu/books/excerpt/2011/hayek_constitution.html

    Fundamental to classic liberalism is the integrity of democratic methods and institutions and the rule of law. You may make speeches and protest – but ultimately the criminal opportunism seen in the 2020 US race riots is a disgrace that cannot be tolerated. A compounding danger is that such criminality was tolerated and continues to be excused by progressives. This stands in stark and hypocritical contrast to their outrage at the Capitol invasion. They – antifa and apologists – have a neo-socialist agenda that appears to be childish sophistry – but that has deep roots.

    Eventually the US must restore faith in elections. As Mitch McConnell warned -not ratifying the electoral college vote would have plunged the US republic into a death spiral. The next steps are critical. A calm, critical and clear sighted review of the 2020 election followed by a raft of reforms directed at strengthening rules and procedures. Some of which appear to have devolved into ad hoc chaos feeding into the egotism, arrogance and recklessness of the failed demagogue. To call for restraint and then for the Republicans to develop an agenda that does have electoral appeal in a changing America.

  79. Justin Burch

    Still trying to wrap my brain on how the elected President of the United States can be banned from Twitter and facebook for causing a riot but the head of Iran who is calling for extermination of Jews and assassination of world leaders and a thread about Hang Pence is “trending”. I think Twitter an Facebook just committed suicide. 74 million Trump voters are now leaving in droves and going elsewhere. Twitter and Facebook will soon be nothing but echo chambers like CNN that no one actually uses or watches. They will go the way of myspace, killed by their own hypocrisy.

  80. I did not expect Bolsheviks to resurface with so much power and money so soon. The slogans are different.

    What the intellectuals behind these people, may not remember is that the Bolsheviks turned on the intellectuals pretty soon and sent them to Gulags.

    History repeats. History rhymes.

    • Justin Burch

      It was only a short time ago that Occasio-Cortez stormed the capital and occupied Pelosi’s office with a merry band of greenies. Now she’s a representative in congress and doing what she did now is called Pearl Harbour. ANTIFA openly plot insurrection and violence and killing of police on Facebook still. One thing about Communists, their are only good thugs, mobs and rioters, on one side.

    • “What the intellectuals behind these people, may not remember is that the Bolsheviks turned on the intellectuals pretty soon and sent them to Gulags.”

      Yes indeed. The same thing happened with the French Revolution.

      And, I try to remind those on the right who are so incensed that they talk of revolution that revolutions not only are horrible and bloody, but the wrong people usually come out on top.

  81. The Democrat-Big Tech censorship alliance just ran a masterclass in media control for dictators around the world.

    When President Donald Trump’s supporters forced their way inside the US Capitol on Wednesday, they did not act as a unified force bent on seizing power. Instead they snapped selfies, looted souvenirs, and engaged in petty vandalism. While the rampage ended in tragedy for the protester shot dead by police, the police officer fatally injured, and the three others who suffered “medical emergencies” and died, it was soon snuffed out and Congress returned to work that evening to certify Joe Biden’s electoral victory.

    Yet politicians on all sides and their enablers in the media swiftly declared it an “armed insurrection,” a “coup attempt,” and an example of “domestic terrorism.” ‘Never Trump’ Republican Kurt Bardella described Wednesday’s events as “symbolically worse than Pearl Harbor or 9/11”.

    Silicon Valley made an unprecedented move. Trump was permanently banned from Twitter, his primary means of communication with the public, while thousands of accounts belonging to his supporters were deleted. Facebook and other platforms have done likewise.

    As the country’s journalists and pundits cheer for the unaccountable tech tyrants, budding dictators abroad are surely taking notes. Building relationships with the tech titans is the modern equivalent of seizing a television studio, and popular movements can be easily suppressed with their cooperation. If the world’s loudest and proudest democracy is doing it, why can’t they?

    And who’s to say Silicon Valley’s giants themselves would stop at the US border? What is to stop them taking a dislike to some politician overseas and snuffing them out like Donald Trump? After all if the leader of the most powerful nation on Earth can be deleted, what chance do the rest of them have?

    Back in the US, Trump has far more supporters than the mob who broke into the Capitol on Wednesday. He has 75 million of them, more than the population of the UK. Denied the opportunity to speak freely online and with their views branded as “extremist,” would anyone be surprised if they decided to take more drastic action?

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/512044-capitol-democrats-coup-trump/

    • “they did not act as a unified force bent on seizing power. Instead they snapped selfies, looted souvenirs, and engaged in petty vandalism. ”

      A cop was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.
      That fact alone renders your attempt at white washing shameful.

      More details on rioters clearly shows it is was much worse than the initial reports suggested:
      https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/media/reliable-sources-january-8/index.html

      All Trump needed to do to avoid a Twitter ban is stop spreading the lie that there was massive fraud in the election because that lie is inciting his more rabid followers to commit acts of violence.

      The right to free speech does not include the right shout fire in in a crowded theater. Screaming fraud and calling for supporters to fight to “stop the steal” is the same thing.

      • Oh, this is so rich from those who said that the burning and looting and destruction this summer, which lasted for months, wasn’t an insurrection but “mostly peaceful” protests.

        Many Americans, including lawyers and legislators and many others from all walks of life, believe that the allegations of election irregularities weren’t addressed in any critical and objective manner; they were essentially brushed aside. You may not like it, but these allegations are not “baseless.”

        As Joshua says: you boyz are something else.

      • 1) The BLM issues were not a fantasy dreamed up by a megalomaniac looking for a way to subvert the democratic system.

        2) I was a pissed off as you at Democratic leaders who let Antifa rioters go wild. But I am of the opinion that 2 wrongs don’t make a right.

        ” You may not like it, but these allegations are not “baseless.””

        Yes they are. Lots of people from all walks of life are partisans that simply believe what their partisan media tells them. They have likely never heard the counter arguments provided by the various state officials which effectively debunk every one of the spurious allegations.

      • Here is something straight from leftist intellectual playbook:
        “You lost me as soon as you referenced CNN, cesspool of left wing, communist nuts who peddle in conspiracy theories.”

      • ” cop was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.
        That fact alone renders your attempt at white washing shameful.”

        Oh nonsense. The point was that it was not an organized or effective insurrection. That doesn’t mean there were not isolated acts of violence, nor that it is being whitewashed. How many times do we on the right have to say that it was wrong to invade the Capitol.

        BUT… it is quite appropriate to provide context – something the hand wringers of the media (and politicians) don’t seem to possess or be willing to share. The Senate was invaded during the Kavanaugh hearings. The Supreme Court was attacked. The left/media hardly mentioned it, and certainly didn’t use language to the effect that the Republic was about to fall apart.

        The CNN article you link to is pretty pathetic. It is largely innuendo, plus of course a pat on the back to journalists for being so “brave.” Heck, I would have felt safe reporting on that event, although in the past when I reported on Antifa, I left after awhile because I started being concerned – appropriately as it turned out as riots started a few minutes later.

        The event was complex. There was some violence – by whom, we don’t yet know. The idea that the people hunting for Pence planned violence is pretty weak, though. More likely, they wanted to harangue him about how he should reject the electors.

        We know that somebody injured cops – how badly we don’t know other than the inexcusable murder of a cop with a fire extinguisher – again, by who?

        The silly CNN report whines about an explosive device found – but… where, who put it there, was it armed, was it even real? It talks about violence but doesn’t provide it.

        One thing is for sure: this event did not threaten to upend the Republic. It was not a coup. It was a riot, a demonstration that got out of hand. It scared some representatives and reporters – but only because they lacked adequate information, not because there was a significant threat. Vandalism took place – mostly by apparent narcissists who also took selfies and otherwise acted like children, not serious insurrectionists.

      • Lol. Isolated acts of violence:

        https://twitter.com/rezahakbari/status/1347610932910952448?s=19

        Just wanted to harangue him? They were trying en masse to push through doors beyond which were Pence and his family and many legislators like Pelosi, that they were saying are “traitors, ” where they could see cops with guns drawn and ready to fire at them. They were telling the cops to go home because they weren’t interested in the cops. The woman who was killed was trying to climb through a door that cops were standing there to defend.

        .

      • More than 50 cops injured in “isolated acts of violence.”

      • They injured 50 cops (in isolated violence, doncha know) ’cause they really wanted badly to just harangue Pence.

      • “A cop was beaten to death with a fire extinguisher.
        That fact alone renders your attempt at white washing shameful.”

        I’m not sure I’d call your description a fact. I don’t know where you get your information (it wasn’t contained in the article you linked), but in latest Mail Online report I read it said the police officer who died had left the protests and return to the police station and was still on active duty before it was discovered he had been injured. No details of what happened had been released by the police at the time of the report, except to say a fire extinguisher was involved (presumably from his account). The report suggested that the police currently have no more information themselves because no other officer saw what happened, and none of the videos currently available show the incident. The police are appealing for witnesses and have obviously opened an investigation.

        He had not sought medical attention or been advised to do so, presumably because whatever injuries he had were not considered serious. However, he duly began to feel sick, at which point an ambulance was called. He subsequently died in hospital.

        It sounds like he sustained a concussion, but was unaware of it. The accounts currently available don’t really fit the description of someone being “beaten to death”, even if that is effectively what happened (i.e. he died from a brain trauma, even if there was no apparent injury). This is horrifying in its own right, but doubly tragic because he might well have survived if he’d been treated sooner. There is film of fire extinguishers being let off and directed at police. It’s not entirely unlikely that at some point a canister was thrown, struck the officer in question, and caused the fatal injury. This would be a more likely scenario based on what we know than the picture you are trying to conjure up. In a sense it makes no difference because the officer is dead anyway, but there would be a very big difference in terms of the intentions of the person/people responsible.

        The article you linked is written by an imbecile and pretends to tell us something while telling us nothing. Given that these are the two tests that anything published by CNN must pass, all one can say about it is that it confirms that CNN is still strictly enforcing its editorial policy.

      • If the election fraud is such a fantasy, then let’s investigate it thoroughly and tear it apart. Don’t we deserve that? Doesn’t this country deserve election scrutiny and due diligence, even if many people believe the election was legitimate? A substantial portion of people in this country believes it wasn’t. How about those 202,000 extra people voting for president in Pennsylvania beyond the number of registered voters? No real answers, no drilling down, just “you don’t understand!” Then show us!

        Let’s have some damn answers! Drill down, figure it out. But no, instead we have people like Raffensperger in Georgia feeding us, “we looked into it thoroughly and no, Jovian Pultizer can’t see our mail-in ballots so shut up.”

        There would have been a way to tamp down all this conspiracy talk and that would have been a complete investigation into all allegations, but instead what’s the mainstream news telling us over and over? “All the accusations of fraud are baseless.”

  82. I clicked on a linked on the Lockdown Sceptics website, under the “Round Up” section, because it was about ivermectin: “Dr Tess Lawrie, Director of the Evidence-Based Medicine Consultancy in Bath, asks Boris [Johnson] to take heed of the latest research into a well-known medicine that will save lives in the battle against COVID-19.” It was a YouTube video but alas, this had been removed for violating YouTube’s terms of service. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pXV42xkk8cM No doubt because the video was promoting “misinformation.”

    Orwell was 37 years too early, but it’s happening. Right before our very eyes. The mainstream media is blinding us to this, telling us over and over what to think.

    Conspiracy theory, or calling them as we see them? It’s right in front of our very eyes: you didn’t get hydroxychloroquine, and you’re not getting ivermectin either, so shut up. We will tell you what you’re getting, and when.

  83. We need to make Apple and Google app services and infrastructure a pubic utility like natural gas or electricity. Telephones were one. We have to have that infrastructure to obtain our right to free speech.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_public_utilities

    • > We need to make Apple and Google app services….

      Lol. It started with the love affair with Sweden. Continued with COVID relief. Now we can see the full socialism-ization of Trump cult members is near complete.

  84. The ban goes into effect on Sunday, effectively shutting down the platform that conservatives have flocked to since the big tech giants began banning conservatives.

    In a post on Parler, Matze wrote that “Sunday (tomorrow) at midnight Amazon will be shutting off all of our servers in an attempt to completely remove free speech off the internet. There is the possibility Parler will be unavailable on the internet for up to a week as we rebuild from scratch. We prepared for events like this by never relying on amazons proprietary infrastructure and building bare metal products.”

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/breaking-parler-ceo-responds-amazon-hosting-ban-says-coordinated-attack-tech-giants-kill-competition/

  85. Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton on Saturday vowed to fight Big Tech censorship with everything he’s got.

    “Twitter/Facebook closing conservative accts. Google shutting down Parler. Apple threatening to do the same. BigTech hates free speech. As we enter the Biden era, they stand ready/willing to be the left’s Chinese-style thought police. As AG, I will fight them with all I’ve got.” – Ken Paxton said.

    https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2021/01/texas-attorney-general-vows-fight-big-tech-censorship-everything-got/

  86. The Rasmussen Reports daily Presidential Tracking Poll, Sponsored by SLANTED from Sharyl Attkisson, for Friday shows that 48% of Likely U.S. Voters approve of President Trump’s job performance. Fifty percent (50%) disapprove.

    The latest figures include 35% who Strongly Approve of the job Trump is doing and 42% who Strongly Disapprove. This gives him a Presidential Approval Index rating of -7. (see trends)

    https://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/trump_administration/prez_track_jan08

  87. Everett F Sargent

    SO LONG —
    Amazon cuts off Parler’s web hosting following Apple, Google bans
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2021/01/amazon-cuts-off-parlers-web-hosting-following-apple-google-bans/

    “Amazon Web Services is suspending Parler’s access to its hosting services at the end of the weekend, potentially driving the service offline unless it can find a new provider.”

    Take your domestic terrorism elsewhere.

    • They’ll be back in a week. In the meantime some big names have deleted their twitter account. People are deleting Facebook accounts. Amazon is more problematic, but we’re working on it.

    • CENSORSHIP! FREEDOM! FREE SPEECH! WE’RE SUCH VICTIMS! LIBZ HSTE FREE SPEECH WHAT ARE THEY AFRAID OF?

      -snip-

      CNN)The CEO of Parler, a social media platform popular among conservatives, told Mediaite that it removed a post from attorney Lin Wood calling for Vice President Mike Pence to be executed by “firing squads.”

      -snip-

      • That’s easy. They are afraid of Trump. That’s why they have spend so much money and effort to elect Corrupt Illegitimate President China Joe Biden!

      • “They are afraid of Trump.”

        No reasonable person cannot be afraid of a megalomaniac that breaks the law with impunity and radicalizes his followers by making up lies about election fraud – radicalization that is now turning violent.

    • “Gab isn’t just building an alternative social network. We’re building an alternative internet. From hosting infrastructure to web browsing and more: Gab is the market leader when it comes to defending free speech against Silicon Valley tyranny online.”
      https://news.gab.com/2020/09/30/gab-just-became-resilient-in-a-big-way/

      I don’ know what Parler’s response will be – but the internet can’t be shut done.

      • “I don’ know what Parler’s response will be – but the internet can’t be shut done.”

        Parler will eventually be forced to adopt its own censorship regime (e.g. Lin Wood) because no content hosting company can survive without some moderation. Whether it finds a balance that allows to to compete with Twitter is TBD but I am happy to see competition and the news that that Parler is finally realizing that “anything goes” is not a viable business model.

      • Ped0philes are as secure online as pediatricians while anyone with politics a teensy weensy bit too right of center for Jackboot Dorsey’s liking is kicked off the internet. Is this what US marines died in Omaha beach to bequeath to their grand-children? I doubt it.

      • “But the Internet can’t be shut down.”

        First, driving one side of the conversation away from the other side is not good. If conservatives move to these platforms, and leftists stay on the other, communication, needed communication, will be less.

        Also, the Internet can absolutely be shut down for some people. I know enough about it to know how that can be done. Basically: ISP’s can deny carriage of the very bits between disfavored people and disfavored servers. At higher levels, hosting sites and services can deny service (as Amazon is doing to Parler). Content Delivery Networks can refuse service. Mobile devices can ban apps (only two companies control the gateways for almost all mobile apps – they and minority app store Amazon just all banned Parler). Mobile devices can even deny access to disfavored domain names and IP addresses.

        So yes, it can be shut down. But even with workarounds – as Parler today is trying to find a place for its servers – it is unAmerican – it is totalitarian – to force these burdens on one ideological group.

      • Gab was celebrating installing their own servers. As far as phones are concerned – the competition to Google Play and Apple App is established and growing. Switch to Android and change your service provider if they are being nefarious. Or install an onion browser on both laptop and phone. There are dozens of ways around anything.

        https://www.torproject.org/download/

        So no – it can’t be stopped. But by all means – hit Big Tech where it hurts with antitrust action.

      • “As far as phones are concerned – the competition to Google Play and Apple App is established and growing. Switch to Android and change your service provider if they are being nefarious. ”

        So far, that’s wishful thinking. Yes, you can side load apps on Android. But I’m an Android developer and I’m not about to side load someone else’s app unless I’ve read the source code. Most people don’t have the skills to do that, I don’t have the time, and most side load apps don’t provide it.

        One big game company is now bypassing the Google Play store. Maybe a few other giant companies will do so. Parler could do it, but I would be very hesitant to install their app.

      • Look closely at your app store list. For iOS, you can only install apps on *jailbroken* (hacked) iPhones.

        For Android, as I wrote, there are more choices. Yes, there are some specialized apps on manufacturer app stores (such as Samsung). As an app developer, I certainly don’t bother with those. They do not count as an alternative, because of their narrow focus. They aren’t worth my effort.

        And, of course, those giant corporations may join their peers in censorship.

        The primary Android app store other than Google is that run by Amazon and only works for Amazon’s limited devices. And guess what, Amazon banned the Parler app also.

        Plus, as I mentioned, Google has been moving more and more important functionality into Google Play. That is invisible to users, until they notice that a lot of apps on Google Play are not on Amazon – because Amazon devices don’t have the Google Play software, since they are not an authorized Android provider.

        In other words, there is a very effective duopoly (oligopoly if you include Amazon). Those three control the app world.

        If you were organizing a political party in the past, would you consider that there was freedom if 5% of your potential public hadaccess to your communications, while 100% of the opposition did?

      • One day you fools will figure out it’s your digital identity that needs protection. There is a way to do it but it’s not cheap. Our politicians are either too ignorant of the issues or their solutions would make it worse.
        https://cybernews.com/news/70tb-of-parler-users-messages-videos-and-posts-leaked-by-security-researchers/
        Love this part where Parler lies to their uses about their deleted posts.
        “The data scrape includes deleted posts, meaning that Parler stored user data after users deleted it.”

      • > And, of course, those giant corporations may join their peers in censorship.

        You oughta stop trivializing censorship. It’s not censorship.

      • The point was and is that many work arounds exist. You may of course continue marketing apps with Google Play or Apple App.

      • “The point was and is that many work arounds exist. You may of course continue marketing apps with Google Play or Apple App.”

        In the context of large political movements and mass communications, no workarounds have yet been mooted.

        Yes, you can get a few people to side load apps. Until, that is, Apple and Google decide to block URL’s from their phones – something well within their power.

        Yes, people can set up web sites without the help of giant cloud hosting services. But, at much more cost and lower reliability. There’s a reason those hosting services pull down billions of dollars from big companies – they are economical and reliable.

        So, can you not see that this attack on the free speech of conservative is effective? The companies that did this have the worlds’ experts on how the Internet works and how to sabotage those they disfavor. And those experts are almost all leftists of one stripe or another.

        Also, let’s say people go to work-arounds (of which Parler *was* one). Isn’t that just great? That we have two groups of people in the country that don’t even share the common square any more? Great for peace and democracy.

      • Do you imagine I agree with their behaviour or do you just like to hear yourself talk? It’s not where I would get my information from. But it can’t be stopped and it is counterproductive to try. Smoke signals if necessary.

        https://gab.com/

    • This is so rich: “take your domestic terrorism elsewhere.” You can burn and loot all summer all over the country, and then you’re not domestic terrorists and you can post freely, but protest for one day and take over a government building briefly, with no fires started, and suddenly this is a bloody insurrection that must be tamped down immediately.

      • But Antifa

      • Joshua,
        Your counter arguments aren’t arguments. This could get very ugly very fast if one side feels their only option is violence.

      • Doug –

        > This could get very ugly very fast if one side feels their only option is violence.

        No doubt. But that doesn’t alter the constant and uniform deflection we see in this thread. In fact, that constant and uniform deflection underscores the very thing that you say.

        The refusal for accountability we see here is part of the problem. Fortunately, it may be an outlier phenomenon among an extreme element . We see a lot of conservatives who are quite explicit in denouncing the Trumpists cult and the related social phenomena. What remains to be seen is how those forces balance out in the end. Of course there are related phenomena on the other side. It could be argued that a centrist taking the leadership kmf demz is an important signal.

        Unfortunately, however, the pandering and rationalizing we see here, mixed with an in-reflective partisan hatred, is a troubling sign. But like I said, it could very well be an outlier phenomenon.

      • There is no deflection. The Capitol invasion has been unequivocally denounced. As have much larger scale looting and burning last year by anarchists and opportunist thieves. I think Joshua is the outlier phenomenon.

    • “Take your domestic terrorism elsewhere.”

      Are you aware that Twitter and Facebook have carried actions by equivalent groups, such as BLM, without censorship?

      Are you aware that most Parler users are not “domestic terrorists.”

      I’m a member. Your remark is very offensive to me – as I don’t advocate or participate in domestic terrorism.

      But hey, the left is very prone to stereotyping and censorship. It’s what you do.

    • I swear to God, people seem to be trying to start a civil war…morons.

      • Everett F Sargent

        Yeah, that is exactly what they are trying to do, those ultraextremerightwingnutbars that is and I, for one, do not want to give those nutbars any leeway to destroy our nation. They all belong in prison.

      • Everett
        Your delusional if you think violent extremists exist only on the right. Dangerously delusional.

  88. Sasha Obama Administration
    The future of the Democratic Party one can hope for:
    https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=10154229804947360

  89. If all the right-wing, conspiracy-theorist, gullible groups and cult followers go to their own little internet world, perhaps the rest of us in the real world can get on with discussing things rationally and constructively without the distractions of whatever mad theory they latch onto next.
    Should be a breath of fresh air…as long as they don’t keep coming back to the real world to cause trouble and insult everybody every now and again!

    • There’s a very real different side to your narrative:

      https://youtu.be/jYPtkKFa710

    • Rest of you Bolsheviks you mean?

    • “If all the right-wing, conspiracy-theorist, gullible groups and cult followers go to their own little internet world, perhaps the rest of us in the real world can get on with discussing things rationally”

      You have just encapsulated the scorn against those who differ by the left, and why we ended up with Trump rather than a more moderate Republican.

      I am right wing. I am not a conspiracy theorist or a cultist. Neither are most right wing people.

      But I am infuriated by the reaction to the absolutely deplorable invasion of the Capitol – specifically, the hypocritical statements of those who were calling on us to “come together” and the tyrannical actions of the rich leftist tech titans who are eliminating our ability to communicate freely.

      • Unfortunately, the only way right now for conservatives to strike back is to cancel Facebook, Twitter, and Amazon accounts. This will deprive them of some funding, especially if 90% of conservatives did it. Also, maybe run the iPhone through a blender, or at least root it so you can control it.

      • > But I am infuriated by the reaction to the absolutely deplorable invasion of the Capitol

        C’mon. Sure, the constant deflection by some right-wingers is annoying – but is it really “infuriating?”

      • No, not those who differ, just those “right-wing, conspiracy-theorist, gullible groups and cult followers”. If you don’t classify yourself as such, good. However, there are too many who do identify as such and I believe such people can not be argued with or debated because they believe what they believe and do not intend to change their belief. They are lost to the rational world and it would be better if they took themselves off to their own little internet world where the security services can keep an eye on them, as they do with other extremists.

      • “However, there are too many who do identify as such and I believe such people can not be argued with or debated because they believe what they believe and do not intend to change their belief. They are lost to the rational world..” – JMurphy

        That could be applied to proponents of manmade global warming, exemplified by Robert Ellison who won’t listen to the many inconsistencies and a viable alternative.

  90. Nanci Pelosi and Donald Trump share equal credit for breaking democracy in the USA. Pelosi denied and rejected the election of Trump. Her false and racist Russia collusion accusation and failed impeachment show the totality of her democracy denial. For Trump to deny and reject the election result is simple symmetry. Nanci schooled him well and can take credit for that.

    From now on no election result will be accepted by the losing side. This will be the enduring legacy of the Pelosi-Trump anti-democratic partnership.

    • Spare us the false equivalency. Clinton conceded immediately and Obama facilitated the transition. There was never any question that Trump would become president on Jan 20th, 2017. Clinton attended Trump’s inauguration.

      The Russian investigations were bungled but they had a reasonable basis to believe that Trump colluded given his own words calling for Russians to hack Clinton’s emails and suspicious meetings with Russians at the Trump tower.

      Fast forward to 2020 and we have Trump refusing concede even after losing 60+ court cases. We have him repeating lies which have be repeatedly refuted by state official in charge of elections. He calls officials to demand that that they falsify election results and pressures republicans throw own election results that he does not like.

      Trump is a serious danger to democracy and it absolutely pathetic for anyone to imply there is any equivalency with the Russian collusion investigations which followed the normal pattern for partisan bickering (e.g. Bill Clinton’s impeachment, Ronald Reagan’s contra affair…)

      • “He calls officials to demand that that they falsify election results.” Get your facts straight, TimG. Trump and his team were asking for an investigation to the many irregularities in Georgia elections. They were not asking to falsify results, despite the media spin that wants you to believe this. Listen to the phone call. Raffensperger refused.

        The point of that phone call, as a Trump lawyer stated during the call, was transparency: Georgia says this and Georgia says that, but Georgia won’t allow outside investigators to confirm. Why not? Don’t all Georgians, not just those who voted for Biden, deserve to see that all allegations of irregularities have been thoroughly answered? That’s not happening.

        Why not have an investigation into mail-in ballots, as Jovian Pulitzer suggested? What’s wrong with that? It’s be easy. Simple transparency, double-checking, answering allegations, due diligence, reassuring people that the officials in Georgia are being straight with the people (“trust but verify”), but it’s not happening, is it?

        .

      • “Trump and his team were asking for an investigation to the many irregularities in Georgia elections. ”

        Nonsense. Irregularities that don’t exist according to the *republican* state officials in charge of running the elections. They are lies/fantasies. The objective of the call was clearly to pressure officials into falsifying results even if Trump is so deluded that he really believes he did not lose.

        “Georgia says this and Georgia says that, but Georgia won’t allow outside investigators to confirm. Why not? ”

        Why should they when there is no credible basis for the claims being made? Are you really suggesting that the Democrats should start making up lies about the North Carolina or Texas election and then demanding that outside investigators look into those lies?

        “Why not have an investigation into mail-in ballots, as Jovian Pulitzer suggested?”

        Again, there has to be a reasonable basis for a request. They have investigated specific allegations and found nothing. The GBI did a signature audit and found that 100% of the ballots samples were cast by eligible electors with only 2 errors missed that should have been caught.

        You also ignore the mob boss like tone that Trump took on the call threatening criminal consequences if they did not do as he said.

      • “Trump and his team were asking for an investigation to the many irregularities in Georgia elections. ”

        Irregularities that don’t exist according to the *republican* state officials in charge of running the elections. They are lies/fantasies. The objective of the call was clearly to pressure officials into falsifying results. Even if Trump is so deluded that he really believes he did not lose Georgia I can’t believe that the lawyers on the call were not aware of the real intent.

        You also ignore the mob boss like tone that Trump took on the call threatening criminal consequences if they did not do as he said.

      • Tim
        The point you have evaded (and thus tacitly admitted to be true) is that the Pelosi-led Democrats and whole swamp-establishment were all united in total denial of the election victory of Trump. They spent four years doing nothing but trying to negate the election result. You are also silence-denying the false and racist Russia collusion accusation. This was a massive political-media circus that generated millions of media talking-head hours and was maintained at a level of intensity – one could even say ecstasy – for years with a religious-like certainty that the Muller inquiry would find a smoking gun in the hand of Putin-the-Antichrist. But Muller’s report eventually came and there was nothing.

        Remember that day? Thought not.

        Once everyone had recovered from their Clinton-sulk or their Hit1er-rage fit about the lemon from Muller (the German comes up short against Russia – again!?) everyone sashayed seamlessly into the next assassination plot – contrived impeachment.

        The facts are clear that it is the Democratic Party in its reaction to Trump’s election who have destroyed America’s trust in the election process. Don’t imagine that that is going to be fixed in a hurry.

      • Yeah no one takes him seriously except the Legislature of PA. So your right, nothing to see here except delusional loonies. Really have you any curiosity at all or do you just believe that you have found one story that you can rest easy that you know it all.
        PENNSYLVANIA STATE LEGISLATURE
        January 5, 2021
        The Honorable Mike Pence
        Vice President of the United States
        United States Senate
        Washington, D.C. 20501
        Re: Reclamation of Electoral College Electors from Pennsylvania
        Dear Sir:
        This letter is written to you by the elected members of the Senate and House of
        Representatives of Pennsylvania, notifying you that we hereby nullify the Certificate of
        Ascertainment of Presidential Electoral issued by the Governor of our state. Further, we stay any
        designation of Presidential Electors from our state until such time as a comprehensive forensic
        audit of the November 3, 2020 election has taken place to determine the actual winner. At the
        end of that audit, we will exercise our constitutional authority to “appoint” electors consistent
        with the actual winner of the election.
        We take this action pursuant to a direct grant of authority to our state legislature under
        Article II, Section 1, clause 2 of the United States Constitution which grants plenary power to the
        legislatures of the several States to determine the “Manner” in which Presidential Electors are
        appointed. The U.S. Constitution vests no authority whatsoever in the Governor or any other
        state official to appoint electors.
        Pennsylvania’s Secretary of State, Kathy Boockvar, unilaterally abrogated signature
        verification requirements for absentee or mail-in ballots in violation of 25 PA. STAT. §§
        3146.2(d) & 3150.12(c) and 25 PA. STAT. 350(a.3)(1)-(2) and § 3146.8(g)(3)-(7). Secretary
        Boockvar also violated 25 PA. STAT. § 3146.8(a),(b), (g) for the opening, counting, and recording
        of absentee and mail-in ballots by urging local election officials to illegally open mail-in ballots
        prior to election day as set forth in those statutes to allow various persons—including political
        parties—to contact voters to “cure” defective mail-in ballots. In addition, non-legislative
        government officials violated 25 PA. STAT. §§ 3146.6(c), 3150.16(c) and 2019 Pa. Legis. Serv.
        Act 2019-77, that, inter alia, set a deadline of 8:00 p.m. on election day for a county board of
        elections to receive mail-in ballots, and unlawfully extended that deadline to three days after
        Election Day, and further adopted a presumption that even non-postmarked ballots were
        presumptively timely.
        In addition, to these clear arrogations of Pennsylvania election laws in violation of the
        United States Constitution, there is strong evidence of election outcome changing illegal or
        fraudulent votes that cannot be ignored. For example:
        • There is an unexplained 400,000 ballot discrepancy between the number of mail-in
        ballots Pennsylvania sent out as reported on November 2, 2020 on the SURE system (2.7
        million) versus the figure reported on November 4, 2020 (3.1 million).
        • There are 118,426 mail-in ballots that had no mail date, were nonsensically returned
        before the mailed date, or were improbably returned one day after the mail date.
        • There are as 205,122 more votes than voters recorded in Pennsylvania. Even if this
        number is off by fifty percent due to any purported delay in updates provided by counties,
        that number would still far exceed the margin of 81,587 votes separating President Trump
        and former Vice President Biden.
        As members of the state legislature of Pennsylvania, we make the following findings.
        We find that the laws enacted by our state legislature which should have governed the election of
        Presidential Electors were not followed. We find that this abrogation of the laws of
        Pennsylvania has led to greatly increased opportunities for massive voter fraud and election
        fraud. We find that even in the short time since the election, the evidence that has been adduced
        is clear and convincing that the number of votes that were fraudulently counted in favor of the
        Biden-Harris slate far exceeds the reported vote differential between the Biden-Harris slate and
        the Trump-Pence slate. Accordingly, we find that the Governor’s Certificate of Ascertainment
        purports to certify the results of an unconstitutional and fraudulent election of Presidential
        Electors, and therefore is null and void.
        Although we would have preferred to make these findings as a body assembled, in this
        day of COVID-19 restrictions and breaking new developments on a daily basis, that became
        impossible. This requires us to make our decision through this letter.
        If the joint session of Congress scheduled for January 6, 2021 proceeds to count electors
        from some states, we hereby exercise our constitutional authority to direct you to not count any
        Presidential Electors from our state. However, it is our fervent request, that the date of this joint
        session of Congress be deferred until the completion of the forensic audit of the election.
        Should you, as Vice President were to announce a winner based on a tally of
        unconstitutionally and fraudulently elected Presidential Electors, it would create a rent in the
        fabric of the nation. Our country is based on the consent of the governed, and if half of the
        country were to believe that their votes no longer matter, we fear for the consequences for the
        union.
        Having found that the process by which Presidential Electors were chosen was
        unconstitutional, that it led to illegal or fraudulent votes, and the number of demonstrated illegal
        votes exceeds the vote differential between the candidates, as members of the state legislature,
        we are compelled to take these actions as stated above.
        Respectfully submitted

    • What Democrats, elements within FBI including and DoJ did back then was sedition, far worse than the Capitol Hill protests.

      Trump took out too many political mafias and de-facto royalty (Bushes and the Clintons, remember Dubya’s little love affair with Michelle and the media fawning over a war criminal?). It was never going to be an easy ride.

    • But Democrats

    • Phil – it is highly likely the election was fraudulent. Unfortunately, no forensic audits were allowed and we will never know for sure. The array of forces against Trump was and is formidable. There is no comparison between lyin’ Peloser and Trump. Trump stands head and shoulders above any Dimowit you can name.

      • Jim
        It is my understanding that the substantive allegations of electoral fraud were never aired in court. All the cases brought by the Trump side were thrown out on procedural grounds. With no examination of the detail.

      • I sometimes wonder Trump got as many votes as he did. He got millions more than he did in 2016. And the Republicans gained seats in the House. Senators like Susan Collins who polls declared to be at risk won easily. The statistical chances of all of that happening are just about zero. So how did it happen? It must have been massive fraud that Trump even managed to get close to Biden’s count in key states. Did the Russians hack the machines? If the machines are so vulnerable, how do we know who hacked them or in what way? I think we should have a investigation. So far we’ve only looked at the swing states but let’s look at the others – Florida, Alabama, Maine, Texas, and Ohio. Biden was winning Ohio early then suddenly all of the votes shifted and Trump was winning. Polls said Texas was close. And who in their right mind would vote for Tommy Tuberville? He was even a lousy football coach.

      • James
        Some of the voting officials could even have been crypto-reptiloids.

      • Everett F Sargent

        “Some of the voting officials could even have been crypto-reptiloids.”

        Or not …
        https://media-assets-02.thedrum.com/cache/images/thedrum-prod/s3-news-tmp-77017-1455894663691.cached–default–1280.jpg

    • “Nanci Pelosi and Donald Trump share equal credit for breaking democracy in the USA. Pelosi denied and rejected the election of Trump. Her false and racist Russia collusion accusation and failed impeachment show the totality of her democracy denial. For Trump to deny and reject the election result is simple symmetry.”

      Well said, and I agree.

      But you left out another guilty party that is driving a gigantic wedge through our polity: big tech. Their leftist owners too advantage of this terrible event to deplatform free speech platforms used by conservatives, and to purge conservatives – thousands – from their non-free-speech platforms. It has gotten so extreme that shops selling Trump-themed merchandise were all kicked off of Shopify.

      The result of this attack by Big Tech is hard to predict, but I don’t see any good outcome. It is frightening, and I fear the consequences.

  91. Pennsylvania legislators note that there were 202,000 more votes cast for the president than there were registered voters:

    “We were already concerned with the actions of the Supreme Court of Pennsylvania, the Executive branch, and election officials in certain counties contravening and undermining the Pennsylvania Election Code by eliminating signature verification, postmarks, and due dates while allowing the proliferation of drop boxes with questionable security measures and the unauthorized curing of ballots, as well as the questionable treatment of poll watchers, all of which created wholesale opportunities for irregularities in the 2020 presidential election.

    “However, we are now seeing discrepancies on the retail level which raise even more troubling questions regarding irregularities in the election returns. These findings call into question the accuracy of the SURE system, consistency in the application of the Pennsylvania Election Code from county to county, and the competency of those charged with oversight of elections in our Commonwealth.

    “These numbers just don’t add up, and the alleged certification of Pennsylvania’s presidential election results was absolutely premature, unconfirmed, and in error.”

    These aren’t people who are part of the Proud Boys or White Supremacists or retired folks reading on websites about conspiracy theories. These are responsible and respected elected officials saying this.

    http://www.repdiamond.com/News/18754/Lat