Politics discussion thread

by Judith Curry

It’s time for a politics thread, to deflect the political comments that are sneaking into the technical threads.

Have at it.  U.S. presidential politics is an obvious topic.  Interesting things going on in Europe and Australia and Hong Kong, etc.

801 responses to “Politics discussion thread

  1. Blaming Trump for everything – even US covid-19 deaths – is outright cynical deceit.

    • Trump is the master of cynical deceit.

    • Wake me up when you get to Peak Conspiracy Theory Mergers & Acquisitions

      https://vvattsupwiththat.blogspot.com/2020/09/they-dont-make-conspiracy-theories-like.html

      • I think that is something the world’s rich and famous and royals and upper class fly around the world in private jets to meet up and preach to the rest of how our use of petroleum products is no better than a heroin addiction and that we must “move away from a society that is obsessed with consumption and consumerism,” and that, “we need to reexamine our lifestyles and consider how our actions and daily life are affecting our world,” e.g., unleashing polar bear-killing runaway global warming doomsday.

      • Wagathon said: “I think that is something the world’s rich and famous and royals and upper class fly around the world in private jets to meet up and preach to the rest” Hey stop messing with my travel budget thats deductible as charitable contributions!

    • You’re correct. He’s only totally screwed up about 95% of what he’s attempted. I’m still waiting for the cheaper, better healthcare plan he first promised when campaigning and recently total a reporter would be out shortly. Trump is a master con man who is doing his level best to destroy our republic.

      • Any serious threat to the Left’s hegemony will be the victim of conspiratorial subterfusion and lies.

      • Conspiratorial subterfusion should not be confused with subluxional chemtrail warming by underwater volcanoes or people making words up.

      • A Trump victory with weight is the lowered corporate tax rate. That makes your 95% number more like 50%. It’s that important. And he doubled the child tax credit to $2000 per child. (There are limitations) That’s significant. Not bombing other countries. Also significant. Taking on China. Do think Biden will give us the Green New Deal? He will not. Will he heal the climate? No. Will he keep electricity affordable and reliabe? No. He has all ready failed. Will he make race relations better? No.

      • Biden, his handlers, are running a con. That’s what they do.

    • First it was just a little bit of rioting. Then, rioting is a problem and it’s Trumps fault. Took them a few months after Lake Street in Minneapolis burned to figure this out.
      Trying to assume power by stepping over the coffins of old people. Just another day for the Democrats.
      Keeping children out of school to assume power. It’s not really about the children. The less they know, the more they vote for us.

  2. Robert L. Bradley Jr.

    Since Biden now has no more problem with fracking, I guess the climate threat is not what he and the Left thought.

    • Those in academia who were afflicted with ‘Bush Derangement Syndrome’ also were afflicted with Hot World Syndrome but the cause and effect point probably should be reversed and accordingly, it should come as no surprise that Trump Derangement Syndrome would be the result when Trump defeated Hillary Clinton.

  3. Wi;lliam Norton

    I listened to Joe Biden’s press conference today. The press was not lobbing soft balls at him: they allowed him to play T-Ball. Disgraceful.

    • It’s so easy to be Presidential it is hard to understand why Trump never mastered it. I guess the learning curve was too great.

      Condemn violence on both sides. How hard is that?

      Don’t let the states and cities go bankrupt. No-brainer.

      Make a plan to deal with a pandemic. Geez. That’s a refreshing thought.

      • J Cross “Condemn violence on both sides. How hard is that?”

        Apparently pretty hard – Neither Biden or Harris has condemned BLM or Antifa violence. On the other hand, trump quickly denounce the violence from the white supremists in charlotsville.

        Was trump supposed to condemn the self defense shooting by Kyle Rittenhouse?

      • It is one thing to condemn violence on both sides, it is another thing entirely to be reported on as condemning violence on both sides.

      • “I want to be clear about this: Rioting is not protesting. Looting is not protesting. Setting fires is not protesting. None of this is protesting—it’s lawlessness—plain and simple,” he said. “And those who do it should be prosecuted. Violence will not bring change, only destruction. It’s wrong in every way. It divides instead of unites.”

        – Presidential Biden

      • You didn’t mention when old senile sleepy joe said that, jimmy. I will help you. It was a few days ago, after the very stupid and cynical Democrats had been encouraging rioting, looting and burning for months because they thought the turmoil could be blamed on POTUS Trump with the aid of their media stooges. But it went on too long and the worm turned.

      • You didn’t mention when old sleepy senile joe said that, jimmy. It was only
        a few days ago, after months of the cynical and very stupid Democrats cheering on rioting, burning and looting. But the folks got tired of it and the worm has turned.

      • WordPress is messing with me. Smarmy Democrats.

      • James Cross says “Don’t let the states and cities go bankrupt. No-brainer.”

        No James. The no-brainer is for states and cities to NOT SPEND MORE THAN THEY HAVE. Easy-Peasy.

      • One of the major, long term financial problems states and cities face is over committing to pension benefits. They got into the mess solely through their irresponsible actions. Let them solve it all by their lonesome.

  4. Is there any difference between climate change discussion and politics?
    Because … the FCCC defined Climate Change in Article 1 as follows:

    “…a change of climate which is attributed directly or indirectly to human activity that alters the composition of the global atmosphere and which is in addition to natural climate variability observed over comparable time periods”

    The FCCC statement is legally binding on the Governments who signed the Convention. It amounts to an assertion that all change in the climate is caused by human emissions of greenhouse gases, even when it is only “attributed, directly or indirectly.” There is no need for evidence, scientific or otherwise. As they define it, change of climate that is natural is mere “variability”.

  5. From a climate perspective, the choice should be clear to anyone with half a brain. Global warming is beneficial. Therefore, there is no valid justification for policies to reduce GHG emissions. Therefore, vote Republican. It’s that simple.

    • Further, vote Republican to stay out of the Paris Agreement – and then lead other countries to pull out too.

    • Unless, of course, you are concerned about racial justice,or a coherent response to the Covid-19 pandemic, or economic support for the people who lost their jobs and businesses, ot a foreign policy that doesn’t make the U.S. the laughing-stock of the world, or an administration that doesn’t look like a mafia shake-down for family personal gain, or federal agencies run by people whose entire goal is to destroy them. But hey.jama

      • the “racial justice” issue is a lie, look at the data, even from Obama’s administration. As for foreign policy, I guess the first actual peace deal in the middle east between Israel and UAE, is not as worthy as Obama sending plane loads of cash to terrorist supporters who chant “death to America”. Hmm.. so you don’t think Obama weaponizing the FBI, CIA, EPA, and every other federal organization to spy on and persecute American citizens in a problem? Also you fake concern about the family of politicians making boat loads of cash doesn’t apply to the Clintons, Bidens or any other leftists…. only what you perceive is being done by non-leftists. Like with the man made climate change scam if you take an objective look at the facts you will see all of your concerns are based on lies.

      • John Egan–Reexamine your positions they seem to be based on superficial analysis.

        1. racial justice-

        The actions of local police and government is just that local. If the administration of a city is determined by the local populace to be inefficient/ineffective, vote in new management. The cities that are the worst managed all seem to be run by one group.

        2. a coherent response to the Covid-19 pandemic-.

        The response was earlier than the opposition party wanted and provided effective assistance to State governments who were the lead to actions.

        3. economic support for the people who lost their jobs and businesses-

        Legislation to authorize such relief requires bipartisan action. Democrats keep demanding financial aid unrelated to the virus.

        4. a foreign policy that doesn’t make the U.S. the laughing-stock of the world-

        US foreign policy currently supports USA interests far more than under previous administrations. The US has now actually taken meaningful action against China for their poor trade practices. The US actually eliminated ISIS. The US has gotten N. Korea to vastly reduce their offensive actions against their neighbors and the USA. The US has actually gotten European nation to start to meet their financial commitments. The USA has gotten Arab nations to recognize/work with Israel.

        5. an administration that doesn’t look like a mafia shake-down for family personal gain

        Please show where this is occurring. He is donating his salary. Unlike other politicians who got rich as a result of being in politics he has no motive to enrich himself.

        6. federal agencies run by people whose entire goal is to destroy them.

        The actions of federal agencies reflect the administration in power. It is difficult to change the course of the swamp. Federal agencies come and go as do their policies.

    • “Political and economic issues
      Tilak Doshi analyses the differences between the Biden and Trump energy policies. Biden has adopted the key Bernie Saunders policies. Though he would not phase out fracking, he favours “near-zero” emissions by 2040, ending the sale of gasoline and diesel cars by 2030, denying federal permits for new fossil fuel infrastructure projects. As James Taylor points out, Kamala Harris sought 100% renewables by 2030.

      The Democrats plan to spend more than $400 billion a year (11 per cent of federal revenue) to eliminate greenhouse gas emissions by 2050. This excludes cost-enhancing renewable regulations.

      Only one per cent of Americans place climate change issues as their major consideration in spite of which it is central to Biden’s policies. However, as well as with fracking he diverges from radical Democrats in promoting nuclear, reversing 50 years of Democrat dogma. Perhaps his advisers recognise the economy-crushing implications of a renewables-rich electricity supply, especially one lacking a counterbalance to wind/solar’s inherent instability.

      Woke California shows the consequences of replacing fossil and nuclear plant with wind/solar. Francis Menton explains the rolling blackouts effect of a heat wave (predictably, blamed on climate change). To meet demand of 42-44 GWh California has 76 GW capacity, but 33 GW of this is wind/solar and often useless. Here is the daily production from renewables.

      • “As Frank Wolak points out, 33 per cent of supplies are required by state law to come from renewables. By relying increasingly on these variable supplies, California has put itself “in a position where regular intentional blackouts are inevitable”. Christopher Horner notes increasing blackouts were predicted by the main supplier, PG&E, after those in October 2019. The State legislature is having second thoughts about going deeper green, as is renewables advocate Governor Newsom. Due to its renewables policy, prices in California are 60 per cent above the US average.

        Virginia too is plumping for zero net emissions in a policy that will cost households over $500 a year in higher energy bills as well as reducing reliability.

        EU governments are committed to spending 30% of the EU’s budget on climate — a 10% jump from the 2014-20 budget. With a total package of 1.8 trillion euros ($2.1 trillion), the climate tag comes in at 600 billion euros. But environmental groups claim half of this is actually being spent on subsidies within the Common Agricultural Policy. Angela Merkel wants to accelerate the carbon phase-out with a new pricing mechanism, the euphemism for a carbon tax.

        https://www.regulationeconomics.com/so/adNH92U_f?cid=66c6aa27-573f-421b-8b4c-aa6bba9dcd37#/main

  6. ” … The Summary for Policymakers arises because the Governments that sponsored the Report wish to authorize it and ensure that it corresponds with their Climate Change policies. It is agreed line-by-line by anonymous Representatives of the Governments. It is drafted mainly by selected scientists from the main Report. It is sometimes not understood that they are acting on orders, not as independent scientists.

    The Summary for Policymakers is actually a Summary BY Policymakers as it is not just advice to other policymakers, it is a summary carried out and approved by the policymakers themselves. It is also a genuine consensus of their views, agreed by all of them, and it does not necessarily coincide with the views of any Government or of the scientists who participate in the Report.

    The Government Representatives who control the Reports are never named. In addition to their influence on the Summary for Policymakers, they play a large part in selecting and approving the Lead Authors of the various chapters, and permitting the views of reviewers to be considered.

    The main mechanism for ensuring uniformity of thought is applied by the presence in all of the IPCC Reports of a Summary for Policymakers at the beginning. This is really a Summary BY Policymakers, because it is dictated, line by line by the government representatives who control the IPCC to a group of reliable Drafting Authors. It is published before the main Report, to emphasize the need for conformity. In addition they try to exert pressure in the choice of Lead Authors, and in the treatment of comments made by the reviewers who receive drafts of the Reports. …”

    – Quoted from: “The Global Warming Scam and Climate Change Superscam”, Dr Vincent Gray

    After the Summary for Policymakers is done, the main scientific report is edited to conform to the summary to ensure the “consensus” is undisturbed.
    BTW: Asking for a friend: Is this how “science” should be done?, or is it only how “simple physics” is done?

  7. I was not allowed to comment. It keeps asking for a password and it doesn’t like the one i have.

    My comment was that AGW is best understood as anti fossil fuel activism. Link below.

    https://tambonthongchai.com/2020/03/23/anti-fossil-fuel-activism-disguised-as-climate-science/

    • It’s likely asking for the password of your wordpress account. Perhaps you forgot it? If so you’ll need to reset your password by going through wordpress. Requesting a reset, giving them your email, responding to their email.

      Also – it does not remember you between posts. A wordpress bug.

  8. I have read that any contributions made to the Black Lives Matter organization are laundered directly to the Democratic Party, and that they are described on their Web page as being a Marxist organization. Is this Fake news, or is it correct?

    • > I have read that any contributions made to the Black Lives Matter organization are laundered directly to the Democratic Party.

      No, it’s true. They launder it all through that pizza shop where Hilary Clinton is running that pedophile ring. Or at least she did until her Parkinson’s got so bad that Seth Rich else has o take over. But then they killed him so Jim Comey had to step in.

    • They are indeed Marxists, as their founders proudly state. Where the donations have gone no one knows, AFAICT.

      w.

      • Here is one of the public funding websites for BLM in the UK. Several have been taken down and monies withheld by gofundme who want clarification as to the destination of the £1plus million given

        https://de.gofundme.com/f/ukblm-fund

        Amongst the aims of BLM are the dismantling of borders, the defunding of police, decriminalisation of drugs, partial closure of prisons, the deconstruction of the nuclear family and that preference should be given to supporting Black businesses.

        I am not aware of any link between BLM and any political party in the UK although clearly they are a far left radical party who I believe were started by three American activists.

        There was supposed to be a million man march in London last weekend for BLM but only 300 or so turned up. The media especially the BBC give them air time although more attention is being reclaimed by an avowedly Marxist organisation Extinction rebellion.

        This was started by a failed British Organic farmer who failed to get a Phd in social unrest and how to cause it and was side lined by the group for anti semitic comments.

        XR are currently lobbying Parliament to pass a climate bill so I guess BLM will not get much of a profile over here for the moment.

        I couldn’t see any sign that money to BLM goes directly to the Democrats

        tonyb.

      • Straight of a Scooby Doo episode. Russia does that stuff knowing they will get caught. That’s what they want you to think they are doing.

        Russia’s government gets 50% of it’s revenue from energy, primarily fossil fuels. If Putin did something to put Clinton’s election at risk, he’d have been assassinated in a heartbeat.

    • donations go to the Tides foundation and Actbue

      ActBlue Charities is a registered charitable organization formed to democratize charitable giving. A copy of our latest financial report may be obtained by emailing info@actblue.com or calling (617) 517-7600. Alternatively, our report detailing our programs, a financial summary, and the percentage of contributions dedicated to our charitable purpose, along with a copy of our license, may be obtained from the following state agencies: FLORIDA (registration #CH46938) — Division of Consumer Services 800-435-7352 http://www.800helpfla.com; GEORGIA (registration #CH012361) — contact ActBlue Charities; MARYLAND (registration #29971) — Secretary of State, State House, Annapolis, MD 21401; MISSISSIPPI (registration #100024326) — Secretary of State, 888-236-6167; NEW JERSEY (registration #CH3867000) — Attorney General, 973-504-6215, http://www.state.nj.us/lps/ca/charfrm.htm; NEW YORK (registration #45-25-27) — Attorney General, Charities Bureau, 120 Broadway, New York, NY 10271; NORTH CAROLINA (registration #SL009830) — State Soliciting Licensing Branch, 888-830-4989; PENNSYLVANIA (registration #104758) — Department of State, 800-732-0999; VIRGINIA — Office of Consumer Affairs, PO Box 1163, Richmond, VA 23218; WASHINGTON (registration #37969) — Secretary of State, Charities Division, Olympia, WA 98504-0422, 800-332-4483; WISCONSIN (registration #16203-800) — contact ActBlue Charities; WEST VIRGINIA — Secretary of State, State Capitol, Charleston, WV 25305. Registration with and reporting to these agencies does not imply endorsement, approval, or recommendation of ActBlue Charities.

    • True but False. ActBlue which is a Democrat clearing house allows people to use ActBlue to make donations to BLM because BLM doesn’t have their own way to make donations. So even though all the money is going directly into a Democrat site run of by and for Democrats, they are promising all the money is kept carefully separate and only ends up in the hands of BLM for their worthy activities. Therefore according to the Dom Fact checkers, saying donations to BLM go directly to the Democratic Party is false. And if you believe that I’ve got some ocean front property in Saskatchewan perfect for winter getaways on a tropical beach.

    • I can say this about BLM. It’s helping major league sports commit suicide. But as to if the Democrat Party will also do that, it remains to be seen. Lake Street in Minneapolis burned. Minority owned businesses. Thanks BLM. What else do you do? People are always asking Trump to denounce the 20 actual racists that amount to anything. Not the Democrats though. They embrace these people. People put up BLM signs in their shop windows. Read Havel’s Greengrocer. Don’t hurt me signs. I used to think I lived in a country where we voted and sued each other. Now we intimidate people. It aint Rednecks doing this. When gun sales go up, you might be doing something wrong.

  9. Is there some way I could be allowed to comment in Climate Etc?

    User: gseattle

  10. A 7 year old and a 12 year old in separate incidents over the last week have been attacked by anti Trumpers for having Trump signs. There have been years of unprovoked attacks on adult Trump supporters, but this is a new low. The attribution of mental disorder to the one side seems to be appropriate. Or the suppression of dissent might be just an ideological legacy from the Bohemian Corporal days.

    • Biden is Hitler. Beatcha to it. Before you guys got around to calling our President the H name.

      • Randomengineer de Leather

        He was basically talking about brownshirt type territory the modern far left seems to have allowed, and the parallels are in fact there. Biden seems more akin to a pet that one lets out for show and gets put back in the box before it poops on the floor. If you want to go for a more apt Biden / Hitler comparison, the best one might be the original series Star Trek nazi episode where Prof John Gill (mistakenly) uses german efficiency to help a planet and is drugged by the bad guys. Biden seems to be functioning at the drugged Gill’s level.

        If Biden were actually 80’s Biden (clearly functioning and clearly in charge) then there would be an actual trump/biden race, but it appears more and more like he’s the figurehead propped up as best as can be done and others are calling the shots.

  11. Words escape me……as they do him. Little League Baseball has the Mercy Rule…for good reason. I’m embarrassed for him.

    https://t.co/7YtTHWnwXX?ssr=true

  12. Majority Of Republicans Believe The QAnon Conspiracy Theory Is Partly Or Mostly True, Survey Finds
    -snip-

    ….

    -snip-
    Online and in real-life demonstrations, two viral conspiracy theories are increasingly coming together.

    At first glance the only thing they appear to have in common is their vast distance from reality.

    On one hand, QAnon: a convoluted conspiracy theory that contends that President Trump is waging a secret war against Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles .

    On the other, a swirling mass of pseudoscience claiming that coronavirus does not exist, or is not fatal, or any number of other baseless claims.

    These two ideas are now increasingly coming together, in a grand conspiracy mash-up.
    -snip-

    -snip-
    The congressional candidates who have embraced the baseless QAnon conspiracy theory

    […]

    Marjorie Taylor Greene
    Greene had praised the mythical Q as a “patriot” in a video from 2017 and described the conspiracy theory as “something worth listening to and paying attention to.”

    […]

    Jo Rae Perkins
    In May, Jo Rae Perkins won the Republican nomination for US Senate in Oregon as an unabashed QAnon theory supporter.

    […]

    Lauren Boebert
    Lauren Boebert, a political newcomer, in June delivered a stunning upset to five-term Republican Congressman Scott Tipton in the GOP primary for Colorado’s 3rd Congressional District.

    […]

    Mike Cargile
    Mike Cargile, a Republican, is trying to unseat incumbent Democratic Rep. Norma Torres in the race for California’s 35th Congressional District.

    [… ]
    Theresa Raborn
    A GOP House candidate in Illinois, Theresa Raborn last month promoted a video of Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn swearing a generic oath of office and using phrases and slogans that are hallmarks of QAnon.

    […]

    Erin Cruz
    Cruz, a Republican running for a House seat in California, has not embraced QAnon to the same degree as others but has told NBC News she believes some of what Q posts is valid and that QAnon believers have “legitimate concerns.”

    CNN’s Paul P. Murphy, Michael Warren, Clare Foran and Paul Le Blanc contributed to this report.

    • Probably a majority of Democrats believe that a majority of tax revenue increase under Clinton was responsible for balancing the budget.

      Probably a majority of Democrats believed for an extended period of time that the protests in Minneapolis and Portland were peaceful since that is what they were told repeatedly by the MSM. Reality set in.

      • Kid –

        I love how you trot out the “but they do it tooo” line of defense for a widespread acceptance of a flat out nuts conspiracy theory among Republican.

        It’s remarkable how little else, other than what’s typical of a middle-schooler, some people have in their arsenal of strategies for dealing with current issues.

      • Actually, I replied so I could get some yuks by bringing up some myths about taxes that leftwing extremists have bought from their handlers, the MSM. The Clinton budget balancing act, is just one of several myths that Lefties have swallowed. They also believe there was massive income redistribution in the 50s and 60s when the top marginal tax rate was 91%. Millionaires paid less than 0.5% of taxes then.
        They believe Income inequality grew greater under Bush2 after he reduced taxes than it did under Clinton when he increased taxes. Income of Millionaires went from $176 Billion in 1992 to $817 Billion in 2000 while under Bush2, it went from $817 Billion to $1.07 Trillion.
        They believe the deficit under Bush2 rose because of tax cuts and defense spending. The deficit went up because incomes fell. The tax base shrank. Real taxable income went up by 67% under Clinton to 3% under Bush2. If real taxable income had switched between the 2 Presidents, Bush2, even with the tax cuts and the War, would have balanced the budget and Clinton would have ended with a deficit.
        Lefties believe Marginal tax rates have significant impacts on tax revenue. It’s minor. In 1988, the top marginal tax rate was 28%. In 1991, Bush1 increased it to 31%. In 1993, Clinton increased the top rate to 39.6%. So by 1993 two tax increases were implemented. And what was the change in Effective Tax Rate? It went from 13.4% in 1988 to 13.5% in 1993. Big deal. The answer to reducing the deficit is economic growth to increase the tax base and slowing the growth of social programs spending.

      • Yeah. Right. You weren’t resorting to middle-school “they so it tooo.”

        Sorry. I didn’t realize that you weren’t doing that when you said “they do it tooo.”

      • But it is a big yuk knowing I’m educating some liberals about their tax history that the complicit press never informed them about.

        How about Trump, the Master Troll Extraordinaire, pushing for voting twice. Now he has gotten the Democrats into a frenzy making sure no one votes twice, which is exactly what Trump was seeking all along. He jerks them around like no one ever. Inside their heads constantly.

        Guarantee some October Surprises for Joe Hiden. Very quiet about Tara Reade and the story about the wife of the Secret Service Agent.

      • CerescoKid, There is another problem now coming to light caused by the progressive mythology that you can spend all you want and only tax “the rich”
        The rich can move.
        Companies that are now virtual can be located anywhere.
        New York City and its parent state are entirely dependent on wealthy residents and free-spending office workers- most of whom have fled. The hole this will blow in the state and city budgets is so big that Andrew Cuomo is on television pleading for the wealthy to return.
        So now we have two big movements that our media attempting to deny in truly hilarious Orwellian fashion.
        National Democrats demand federal tax cuts for the rich- the elimination of the cap on state and local tax deductions.
        And we’re now told New York (worst Covid performance on planet earth) did so well with the virus that obviously offices and everything else can reopen now in the state while the rest of the evil empire of American must remain completely locked down. And don’t give Joshua any bunk about herd immunity having any impact in New York- it’s safe to ride the subway and elevators in New York City purely because Cuomo and DeBlasio have thrown up their blue forcefield that prevents the transmission of a virus. Ordinarily they’d be sorry they didn’t turn this on before everyone died in New York, but this is an election year, you know,

      • Hi jeff

        Since you mentioned the cap on state and local taxes deductions, I thought you would find this interesting.

        The IRS released its 2018 Annual Report on Individual Income Taxes yesterday. This is the first report to show the detailed impact of the Trump tax cuts. There are hundreds of things I will be analyzing in the next couple of weeks, but I looked up the following item because I wondered what the results would be.

        For those making over $10 Million, the amount for all taxes used as deductions fell by 93%. I looked at these numbers a couple of years ago, and as I recall, nearly 10% of all such deductions were used by tax filers in NY and CA, which shouldn’t be a surprise.

      • kid –

        > How about Trump, the Master Troll Extraordinaire, pushing for voting twice. Now he has gotten the Democrats into a frenzy making sure no one votes twice, which is exactly what Trump was seeking all along. He jerks them around like no one ever. Inside their heads constantly.

        More evidence of the cult mentality – a deluded belief in the infallibility of bid daddy Donald (I alone can fix it) Trump.

        He also said that he didn’t really mean that people should vote twice, he only meant that they should go to the polls to make sure that their mail-in vote was counted. Except people in North Carolina can do that online – and in going to the polls to check their votes his supporters would just sow confusion and interrupt the smooth operation of in-person voting which, will be likely be occurring more prevalently among his supporters because he’s been sowing misinformation about the reliability of mail-in voting.

        So he shoots himself and his party in the foot, like a bumbling fool, and his deluded cult members convince themselves that he’s omnipotent and the master manipulator.

        Well, he’s not omnipotent. He may be a master manipulator in that he has manipulated a whole lot of people to be cult followers. But I tend to think it’s more likely that he’s the lucky beneficiary of a gullible band of fanatics that are just looking for an authoritarian father figure and for some really hard to understand reason he seems to fit the bill.

      • Remember when the cult followers thought that Big Daddy Donald (“Anyone who wants a test can get a test”) Trump had master-manipulated Kim to bring NoKo to its knees? Hilarious. They had themselves convinced that Bit Daddy had convinced Kim to dismantle his nuclear arsenal.

        Well, he convinced some folks to dismantle something, alright. He convinced his followers to dismantle their common sense and throw it into the trash can.

      • J

        Haven’t caught up yet. It doesn’t matter what he said or didn’t say or intended to say. All that matters is the Dems and their water carriers, the press, within minutes of What Trump said or what you said Trump didn’t say, were saying exactly what you said he didn’t say. They told the world it was illegal to vote twice. They repeated it every second of the 24 hour news cycle. They took the bait and ran out the line ….until there was no line left.

      • Cerescokid: It is worthwhile looking at the tax system in its entirety. In 2018, the feds collected 49% of total government revenue, while state and local governments collected 51%. However, the feds did 54% of government spending, courtesy of the massive federal deficit (more than 20% of revenue).

        Federal income taxes, which are highly progressive, provided only 25% of total federal, state and local taxes in 2018. And federal corporate income taxes added only another 3%. Social security taxes provide 12.6% of total government revenue – half as much as federal income taxes! The top marginal tax rate for social security is a very regressive 0%, because there is a cap on social security benefits (which are paid out progressively). Medicare employment tax and other social insurance taxes are flat taxes totaling 4.6% of total income.

        About one-third of states have state income tax rates that are relatively progressive (similar to federal income taxes), about one-third have effectively flat or no state income taxes, and the remaining third are modestly progressive (often with a top rate that applies to roughly the top half). However, state income taxes represent only 7% of total government revenue (8% adding in corporate taxes). Sales taxes (11%), property taxes (9%), fees (8%) and social insurance taxes (10%) provide the bulk of state and local revenue. Except for the latter, these taxes are formally flat, but regressive to highly regressive considering those who can afford to save a significant fraction of their income.

        If you add it all up, almost half of government income is collected from flat taxes, most of which are regressive after accounting for savings. (This is my own analysis of data from http://www.usgovernmentrevenue.com).

        Effective tax rates in 2016 (from the tax policy center) are also informative. The top 5% made more than $200K, with 40% paying an effective tax rate of 15-20%, 18% paying 20-25%, 12% paying less than 15%, 7% paying 25-30%, and only 3% more than 30%. For those making $100-200K (the rest of the top quintile), 50% paid an effective tax rate of 10-15%, with 22% each paid 5-10% and 15-20%. The next highest quintile ($50-100K) had 42% paying 5-10% and 30% paying 10-15%. About 20% of the bottom three quintiles (less than $50K) each pay 0%, 0-5%, or 5-10% and the most of the rest have negative effective tax rates up to -25%. (The tax policy center’s analysis doesn’t consider filing status, partially explaining these wide ranges.) So, both nominal and effective federal income tax rates are very progressive, but few pay an effective tax rate higher than 25%.

        FWIW, IMO there is no such thing as a “fair” tax system, but the big picture is quite different from what I expected.

      • Frank

        Thanks, good stuff.

        You mentioned some info was not what you expected. At another time I mentioned having gone back through all the IRS Annual Reports back to 1916. I found a lot data which was surprising to me and not what I would have expected. Although, in some cases I’m not sure that I’d ever thought about it. Here are a few interesting historical goodies.

        During much of the 1920s and 1930s only 5-7% of the workforce paid Federal Income Taxes. Even under FDR, in 1936 it was that low. Social Security taxes started January, 1937, so nearly everyone began paying some Federal Taxes then. It wasn’t until WWII and buildup of defense when a much higher % of the workforce paid income taxes. Withholding started in 1944. As I recall a higher % of tax filers paid taxes in 1944 and 1945 than they do now.

        In 1932, during the Depression, population was 120 million in US. Total Income Tax collection was $120 million (not Billion). That means just $2 taxes for each person. Today nearly $10,000, including SS.

        In 1929, the Federal Government spent $3.1 Billion which was 3% of GDP. Today it’s about 22%.

        In 1948 and 1949, the Effective Tax Rate for Individual Income Taxes was 9%. Today about 15%. If SS Taxes are included it is 10% then and 21% now.

        In 1962, prior to JFK calling for the 91% Top Marginal Rate to be reduced, only 62 filers of the 340 who made over $1 Million paid any part of their income at the 91% rate. Some paid a bottom 20% marginal rate. That is why the Top Marginal Rate is only 1 factor in determining the Effective Tax Rate.

        During the 1950s to 1963, the 1%ers had an Effective Tax Rate of about 30-33%. Those over $500,000, about being in 1% class, pay today about 27%. What’s different now from then is that the $500,000 earners pay the same Effective Rate as the earners over $10 Million, about 27%. With the 91% top rate, as noted, the 1%ers paid 30-33%, while the Millionaires paid 45-50% Effective Tax Rate. Clearly, something needs to be changed. But always keeping in mind it’s potential deleterious effect on future economic growth.

        Since mid 1950s, there has been a relatively tight range of Effective Tax Rates of 12-15.5%, with tax increase and tax cuts. Given that Individual Income Taxes make up only ~40% of total Federal Tax Revenue, and the change in Marginal Rate is a 1 time change, the impact on the total Federal Tax collection is relatively minor. Real Growth in the tax base is more significant because that affects the Taxable/Gross Income ratio ( with indexing of Standard Deductions) and because Real Growth affects the other 60% of Federal Tax Revenue.

      • Frank: “If you add it all up, almost half of government income is collected from flat taxes, most of which are regressive …”

        Flat taxes like Social Security and Medicare taxes generally only apply to working age people with jobs. One of the purposes of “medicare for all” is to fund health care in the US with a much higher regressive flat tax. This is why people who understand taxes know that “medicare for all” is simply an attempt to do a massive wealth transfer from young to old. The fact that Democrats have semi-convinced (some) of the youth that they somehow benefit from this helps explain why that same subset of youth assumes there is no downside to burning their cities.

        Kid, I haven’t run the numbers but it would be interesting to see by how much the SALT cap increased the amount federal taxes paid by high income New Yorkers even after factoring in the Trump tax cut. One fallout from this new virtual business world is that many companies will probably discover there is a competitive advantage to avoiding paying the bizarrely high premium of being based in a city. My expectation is that the highly compensated execs will live and work virtually from lower-tax places while young, single, lower paid employees will still live in the city.

      • What a beautiful portrait of how the trump cult (conspiracists) view the world:

        > The fact that Democrats have semi-convinced (some) of the youth that they somehow benefit from this helps explain why that same subset of youth assumes there is no downside to burning their cities.

        So “the democrats” are responsible for fooling black people into voting for them, racism, violence, and convincing people to support insane Healthcare policies.

        Democrats, apparently, have great powers.

        Black people, youth, have no agency unto themselves. They can’t look at the world and decide for themselves. They can’t reject Republicans and Republican ideology based on their own evaluation of what’s going on.

        Nope. Democrats, with their magical hypnotic powers, are able to convince innocent people with no agency to support murderous, racist, violent, and inane ideas. Isn’t that obvious? What else could possibly explain how anyone might disagree with Jeff’s view of the world?

        It must be a conspiracy. And if course it must be those evil Democrats.

      • Imagine that – people thinking they they want healthcare. What could explain such insanity other than a conspiracy?

        Thanks God that big daddy Trump is around fight back and prevent us all from being victims any more than we already are. Imagine he alone weren’t here to fix it?

      • “Imagine that – people thinking they they want healthcare.”

        Do you know why Obamacare had an individual mandate? Because young people weren’t buying health insurance and they needed their money to pay for old people.

      • > Do you know why Obamacare had an individual mandate?

        Because Republicans, for years, said that it was a basic requirement of personal responsibility?

        People want healthcare. They don’t need Democrats to brainwash them into wanting healthcare.

        Stop with the conspiracy ideation.

      • Jeff

        I’m not sure the IRS has run out all the sub categories yet but I will look at it to see what they have.

        Yes, an interesting question.

      • Joshua: “Because Republicans….”

        Do you just reflexively type that for everything without thinking? The mandate exists because young healthy people don’t buy health insurance. Because it doesn’t pencil out for them. And it exists because “free” isn’t a real thing. In order for somebody to have something free, another person who doesn’t use it pays for it. That’s actually how insurance works- I pay my car insurance every month and the money goes to people who had a wreck.
        So let’s look at where the health care dollar is spent.
        Two thirds of health care spending in this country is for people over age 45. Age 19-34 is 11% of health care spending while it is 22% of the population. Statistically almost all of that spending in the 19-34 age bracket is for a very small number of very sick people plus elective events- like having a child. I’m young enough that I actually know people who didn’t bother to sign up for health insurance until the year they were planning to have a baby.
        “Medicare for all” is the Obama mandate turned into a big increase in the flat, regressive, medicare tax all of us pay now. California ran the numbers and couldn’t make “free” health care work without a 15% payroll tax. Healthy single 28-year-old programmers in Silicon Valley making $100k a year would be paying $1,250 a month for “free health care” that they don’t use. The most liberal state legislature in the nation wouldn’t do that because they knew it would be political suicide.
        https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-expenditures-vary-across-population/#item-people-age-55-and-over-account-for-over-half-of-total-health-spending_2016

      • Hi Jeff

        Here are the data from the newly released IRS report for 2018, State of New York, for filers with over $1 Million Adjusted Gross Income. (AGI)

        # filers 2017. 53,480. 2018. 57,210
        AGI. 2017. $220.6 B. 2018. $220.7 B
        Deductions taken for state/local taxes
        # filers. 2017. 52,860. 2018. 46,700
        Amount. 2017. $28.2 B. 2018. $2.47 B
        Tax Liability
        # filers. 2017. 53,460. 2018. 57,190
        Amount. 2017. $61.4 B. 2018. $62 B
        Effective Tax Rate
        2017. 27.8%. 2018. 28.1%
        Taxable Income
        2017. $182.2 B. 2018. $198.9 B
        Taxable Income/AGI Ratio
        2017. 82%. 2018. 90%
        Observations
        More filers making over $1Million, but total AGI almost exactly the same. Average AGI per filer less. Deductions for state/local taxes down 90%. Effective Tax Rate up slightly. The small increase surprised me, I would have expected a little more change.

      • cerescokid: Thanks for appreciating data. I can’t make much sense of your older tax data unless it is expressed in the form of a percentage of GDP. Today (2018), the feds collect revenue equal to 16.2% of GDP and state and local collect 16.9%. However, the feds spend 20% of GDP, which is about the same IIRC as during the late 1990s boom, the last time the budget was balanced. So divide my percentages of total revenue by a factor of 3 to convert them into %GDP. When you get back to FDR’s time and before, a large amount (and sometimes the vast majority) of federal revenue was collected from tariffs. At one point after the Civil War, the protective tariff was so high that the federal government wasn’t spending all of the revenue. So you need trustworthy sources of information to understand the big picture over time. I collected my data while attempting to find a personal answer to the question: “How Progressive is our Tax System.” Everyone else wants to show only the fraction of the picture that supports their position. After a particularly obnoxious and misleading editorial about high marginal tax rates from the fanatics at the WSJ, I sent my findings to my Senator (a long serving centrist Democrat) and received a request for my data and sources. Apparently they had never seen such a summary.

      • jeffnsails850 wrote: | September 8, 2020 at 9:10 am |

        “Flat taxes like Social Security and Medicare taxes generally only apply to working age people with jobs. One of the purposes of “medicare for all” is to fund health care in the US with a much higher regressive flat tax. This is why people who understand taxes know that “medicare for all” is simply an attempt to do a massive wealth transfer from young to old. The fact that Democrats have semi-convinced (some) of the youth that they somehow benefit from this helps explain why that same subset of youth assumes there is no downside to burning their cities.”

        Some of this is pure speculation with no basis in fact. The rest is nonsense. ObamaCare was funded by a new 3.8% tax on investment income (ie by the rich). Many options for addressing the long-term solvency of Social Security involve lifting or removing the cap on income that is taxed for Social Security purposes. That potentially could be a 12.4% increase in social security taxation above today’s limit of about $137K. That would also be a massive tax increase on the rich.

        You are correct that ObamaCare attempted to coerce (through penalty) and bribe (through subsides) young, healthier people into signing up for health insurance that would subsidize coverage for older, less-healthy people. Younger people probably recognized that Obamacare allowed then to sign up for health care after developing an expensive illness (a pre-condition) and that they can get free care in emergency rooms in the meantime. Many fewer younger people than expected signed up for Obamacare and aren’t subsidizing health care for older Americans. The Trump administration claimed they would be ending unappropriated subsidies to insurers, raising the already high prices needed to cover mostly older working Americans. Since this hasn’t been in the news lately, I’m not sure this really happened. Those subsidies were being paid by those who pay federal income taxes (mostly the rich), not those who pay employment taxes (workers).

        A POSSIBLE FUTURE “massive wealth transfer” from young to old via medicare-for-all is not the reason urban youth are burning some cities. Where do you get such fantasies? Blacks are burning cities to get revenge for the perceived systematic racially-motivated murder and maiming of blacks by the police. They believe in this propaganda for a variety of reasons: 1) Such murders were reality in the Jim Crow era. The recent higher profile of white supremacist groups (especially under Trump) and their attempts to recruit police and former military suggest that the Jim Crow era may be returning. 2) For the past decade, the liberal media has grossly distorted and over-publicized the deaths of a handful of blacks under suspicious circumstances. The press doesn’t care that there is no evidence (I have seen published) that race motivated those who killed Floyd or Brown, or that three of six officers charged in the death of Gray were black. All police officers involved in a suspicious death or arrest are automatically assumed to be racists. 3) It’s cruel to challenge the deeply held beliefs of mothers and other family members who have lost loved ones in such tragedies. 4) Most of all, male blacks growing up in high-crime areas have frequent personal or indirect experiences (perhaps once a month/one hundred times a decade) with a police force that systematically uses non-lethal force against blacks more often than they do with whites…. A police force that arrests blacks for minor drug possession much more often than they do whites, even though both groups report similar amounts of drug use in surveys… A police force that stops questions and frisks blacks more often than whites… A police force deeply frustrated by the inability of our legal system to deal with drugs, the mentally ill, gang intimidation, spousal abuse and resisting arrest; allegedly prompting some officers to occasionally personally “deliver justice”… A police force that instantly (and correctly) guessed that George Floyd was “guilty of something”. A police force where officers allegedly are expected to lie to protect a fellow officer, where officers who fail to lie are allegedly left without needed backup in dangerous circumstances, where management tolerates such behavior, and where unions contracts make reform impossible. A police force that is the face of a legal system that incarcerates half of young black men in some urban areas… No one should be surprised that the black community believes they are being systematically murdered by that police force – even though careful analysis usually concludes they are not. Since you believe in nonsense from the far right, if you grew up black in a high-crime community, you’d probably swallow BLM propaganda and be out burning too.

      • “Apparently they had never seen such a summary.”

        That doesn’t surprise me. When I went back through the IRS reports there were a number of items that were counterintuitive and I wondered if anyone in Congress would have been aware of that. For instance, as mentioned somewhere else, in the late 1940s the Effective Tax Rate for Individual Income Taxes was 9% ( lower than today) while the top marginal tax rate was 91%. In 1988, the Top Marginal Rate was 28% with an Effective Tax Rate of 13.4%. The other thing I’m sure most legislators don’t know is the relatively small impact that changing the marginal rate (up and down) has on total Federal tax revenue. First, Individual Income Taxes provide only about 40% of Federal Tax Revenue and the rate change has a one time impact. As noted elsewhere, the Effective Tax Rate went up only 0.1% after two increases in the marginal rate in 1991 and 1993.
        Without getting into the weeds, the most effective way to increase tax yields on income is through real growth in Income. Because of Indexing on Personal Exemptions (pre 2018) and Standard Deductions, When Gross Income grows faster than inflation, the Taxable Income to Gross Income ratio expands, gaining more Taxes and conversely when Gross Income is less than inflation that ratio shrinks resulting in a reduction in the Effective Tax Rate. That wasn’t true before the tax Act of 1986, when indexing was initiated. The real growth in Taxable Income under Clinton was 22 times the amount under Bush II and that was responsible for the budget being balanced in one and creating a deficit in the other.

        As an aside, relative to your points about regressive taxes in States, more than 40 years ago my state, in effect put a semi cap on growth of home property taxes. As I’m sure other states experienced, some homeowners with limited income were paying ever increasing tax payments on their homes with large increases in valuations during the 1960s and 1970s due to inflation. That helped a lot people by at least slowing the growth of that tax bill.

    • “QAnon: a convoluted conspiracy theory that contends that President Trump is waging a secret war against Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles”.

      The fumiest thing is that Donald Trump apparently believes it too. Probably one too many mini-strokes.

      • James –

        I am still up in the air as to what he actually believes, and what positions he stakes out for the sake of political expediency.

        As with so many subjects, with Qanon he walks the line of plausible deniability. I think that with the number of issues for that’s where he lines up, it can’t merely be by coincidence. It has to be a deliberate strategy. But if course there may be some things that he actually believes.

        Whats funniest about the situation is that his cult followers think that he’s a no BS truth-teller, and that unlike every other politician on the planet he doesn’t pick and choose his stances based on political expediency.

        But sure if he deserves credit for developing a sophisticated way to create a deluded cult, or if he’s just lucky in being aligned with a well-aligned with an incredibly gullible cohort that love them a big daddy who’s going to solve all their problems – you know that “[He] alone can fix it.”

      • Let me clear up some misconceptions about Qanon.

        This conspiracy theory does not say that Trump alone is waging a war against Satan and the deep state. It says that Trump is part of a larger campaign, apparently based in military intelligence, to take down the deep state that’s been controlling America and the world for a very long time. It asserts that Trump was asked to be president for that specific purpose (i.e., an apparently bumbling buffoon who is underestimated.) This plan has been forming for over 20 years; “Q” is the anonymous source of purportedly high-level intelligence drops whose central purpose is to inform the American public about this plan.

        Q asserts that JFK was one of the greatest presidents (he worked toward world peace); both Bushes, Clinton, and Obama were deep state puppets. So this theory isn’t exactly “Republicans vs. Democrats.” (If one doesn’t believe in the deep state, then some research into the JFK assassination might shed light.)

        Q asserts that Covid-19 is a manufactured virus released to cause confusion and destroy the economy prior to the election, and to prepare us to be obedient “for our own good” (see “The Great Reset” of the World Economic Forum.) It’s a real virus and it kills people.

        Yes, Q does assert that the highest elites are engaged in Satanic rituals, but not everyone (maybe only a small minority) is part of this. Q asserts that pedophilia is widespread in Hollywood (a claim backed by others, e.g. Corey Feldman and Elijah Woods) as well as in the halls of power (Pizzagate.)

        The Q movement has a heavy Christian presence although it advocates tolerance for all religions (except Satanism.) The central message is that an evil elite has been controlling the world, and that this is about to end.

        This is just FYI. Of course this is all conspiracy theory, but I’ve presented an accurate picture of what it really is, if anyone cares.

    • “QAnon, a far-right conspiracy theory about “deep state elites” has extensive support among Republican voters. One in three Republicans (33%) believe that the QAnon theory is mostly true.”
      The theory that some nut job believes is that, there are deep state elites with some power. Satan also believes this theory. David Duke believes it. A number of people on Fox News believe this. As to all the other theories this nut job has, I don’t care. My quote is from Civiqs. What does Farrakhan believe? Who cares? What do people believe about police shooting blacks? That’s a conspiracy once you look at the data. It’s a conspiracy that just this week, Biden discovered Trump was behind the rioting. What about the big oil conspiracy? The GMO conspiracy. QAnon didn’t burn down minority owned businesses along Lake Street and he didn’t fail to educate Black children.

    • –On one hand, QAnon: a convoluted conspiracy theory that contends that President Trump is waging a secret war against Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles —
      Some are saying that Joe Hiden is Satan.
      As general matter I would think that Satan could be diseased, stupid, and lazy- could be. And, Joe seems very creepy.
      He sort of got the Saddam Hussein thing.

      It seems as percentage one is going have more Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles, among the politicans. But a question, in terms of raw scores which party has more, the Dems or the Reps?
      And it seems if want to go war against something, going to war against the Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles, seems like good choice- few in number, weak, and of course no one particularly likes them.
      Trump seems like to crush the weak, like ISIS- and Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles would be similar.
      The burning and murdering “protesters” are similar.
      And those nurturing these animals have to be very sick puppies.
      Which reminds me, I bet there also a fair number of Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles within bowels of the dysfunctional big corporations.
      And as everyone knows, there no shortage of devils in Washington DC.

      But then again going after the Satan-worshipping elite paedophiles, doesn’t actually seem very important.
      It seems more of entertainment or hobby.
      More important would be break up the Teacher Unions- giving teachers choice, and other the stuff. As we need competition in the field of education.
      One could argue all the useless and destructive public unions- but I would say, just education is more important. And it is key part of what called “systematic racism”.
      Morally, one might want do something about the killing a babies in black neighborhoods- and certainly could seem more obvious in regards to “systematic racism”.
      I think the main battle to win should be regarding education.

  13. On climate change: (sorry bashing Joe is just too easy). It strikes me that the CO2 engine model has not proven predictively successful, nor does it have historical support. However, recent, say the last hundred years , of solar activity should have precipitated a global cooling, which it has not. I propose that man indeed has an effect on the earth’s temperature, but not via CO2 emissions, rather through the reflectivity of hard surfaces created by the urbanization of the planet; the reflected heat from surfaces warming the atmospheric layer closest to the surface and hence closest to the recording devices. I would be interested to know if any studies have been attempted to measure this phenomenon.

  14. A study of the net zero concept in climate action.

    https://tambonthongchai.com/2020/02/25/net-zero/

    • Wow, environmental racism. A new one. Does the environment exhibit racism or is racism environmental. What environment? A new kind of inventism.

      • It used to be called environmental justice, meaning minorities should not suffer disproportionately from pollution. Racism is nastier, so the Dems are using it, hoping for minority votes. Recently we also got climate justice, especially in the Greta marches. I expect to see climate racism being used soon.

        Pam Harris is big on this stuff, probably to offset the fact that as a prosecutor she used to put minorities in jail a lot.

      • Dietrich, you wrote, “Wow, environmental racism. A new one.”

        Realistically, it’s environmental victimism.. Most want to be a victim now. No one wants to be a victor.

        I thank God every day that I’m too old to watch this play out to its end.

        Stay safe and healthy, all.
        Bob

        PS: Hi Judith. Long time. Hope you and yours are well. Ciao!

    • environmental racism. Wow. Very inventive and profound. Is the environment now racist or is racism attacking the environment? I am lacking language expression, poor me.

  15. Robert Ferguson

    Judith: My view is that the politics section should be eliminated and the “science” section should be moderated so as to delete any comment that is political or disrespectful.

    • Robert

      I partially agree but you will have seen that covid discussions tended to have overtaken purely climate change matters as the first has more urgency than the second.

      XR seem to be trying to resurrect themselves so climate is coming a little more to the fore again.

      With the rioting, partly due to the lockdown and partly due to the political situation as we approach November I think there is scope for separate threads that encompass science, politics and covid.

      Tonyb

    • I am trying to keep the science threads free of politics, that is why i have one thread on politics to collect all that

      • Judith

        Sensible idea.

        Tonyb

      • Judith

        We are all your guests here and should appreciate you don’t have an infinite amount of time to moderate comments. I’ve gone over the line in the past and had no problem with the comments being eliminated. Everyone is free to ignore this thread.

      • I am trying to keep the science threads free of politics, that is why i have one thread on politics to collect all that
        CO2 alarmism (CO2ism) is politics, they cannot be separated.

      • Lysenkoism (Russian: Лысе́нковщина, tr. Lysenkovshchina) was a political campaign led by Trofim Lysenko against genetics and science-based agriculture in the mid-20th century, rejecting natural selection in favour of Lamarckism and exaggerated claims for the benefits of vernalization and grafting. It set Russia (USSR) back a Century or more. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Lysenkoism

        Nuclearism has set the World back a thousand years. We can build Nuclear Powered Warships but nothing to power the Citizens of the World. Even while we still build Nuclear Warships, we are powering some military places with solar power. Easy for any enemy to take out.

        CO2ism is a political campaign led by the 97% against science-based climate study.

        COVIDism has set the Western World back a thousand years.

        There are many who profit from the isms. Real Science requires everyone to be Skeptical. The isms have renamed people who have any skeptical thoughts, they call them science denialists. CO2 was used in this definition. https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Denialism
        Anyone who proposes theory or even study of natural causes of climate change is labeled a denier (Dissenter)

        On Sep 2 Andrew Dessler Tweeted “It’s time we admitted that the 97% consensus number is wrong. There is no way that 3% of climate scientists disagree with the conclusions that the Earth is presently warming, humans are mainly responsible, and future risks are serious. Dissenters well below 1% IMHO.”
        The 97% lost the election, 4 years ago, Andy wants 99% to try this year. Alarmists are getting desperate. If his side loses this election, it will reduce the damage by green alarmism a huge much over the next 4 years.

      • There is the politics of climate science and there is the science of climate science. This is no different than eugenics…racism justified with a veneer of science.

        A similar issue exists with COVID19. There is the science and there is the politics. Masks are a good example. The only way to conclude that masks are certainly effective is to cherry pick the data. Still people believe masks are capable of doing something we know they are not physically capable of doing, i.e. effectively blocking aerosolized particles.

      • > Still people believe masks are capable of doing something we know they are not physically capable of doing, i.e. effectively blocking aerosolized particles.

        Respect uncertainty

        They are likely to block some percentage of aerosolized particles – since aersolized particles is not a specific term applying to particles of a specific size. They are likely to limit the spread of larger droplets. The increase the humidity behind the mask, likely limiting the spread of both smaller and larger particles. They are likely to change the dynamics of airflow, ths could lead to particles traveling shorter distances.

        There’s a lot of evidence that localities with great mask wearing have had less spread of the virus. For example:

        https://voxeu.org/article/unmasked-effect-face-masks-spread-covid-19

        Not proof (correlation not causation) but suggestive nonetheless.

        You should be more careful about being over-confident. You should have more respect for uncertainty. You should research your opinions more. You should be more skeptical of how your ideological views might bias your reasoning.

      • Humans amuse me. You act like there hasn’t been extensive research on varying particle sizes in this area. Some of it is discussed here:

        https://www.nap.edu/read/25776/chapter/1

        None of the Scandinavian countries wear masks extensively. Some have fared very well to date and some have fared similarly to the USA. The strongest correlation is to population density, the ability to be outside (climate), and how well the vulnerable have been protected. Because of this I do worry about the approaching NH Winter.

        A friend’s son is in boot camp and 30 people in his company tested positive for the virus after several weeks. This in one of the few places in the USA where it might be possible to ensure people are wearing masks properly…a military boot camp.

        You should take your own advice.

      • > Humans amuse me. You act like there hasn’t been extensive research on varying particle sizes in this area. Some of it is discussed here:

        You don’t seem to understand what I said, or you don’t seem to understand the literature.

        There is no fine line of differentiation between categorizations based on particle size. It isn’t like one size is “aerosolized” and one side isn’t. There is a range.

        ‘There is NOTHING in the article you linked that is inconsistent with what I’ve said:

        -snip-
        The evidence from these laboratory filtration studies suggests that such fabric masks may reduce the transmission of larger respiratory droplets. There is little evidence regarding the transmission of small aerosolized particulates of the size potentially exhaled by asymptomatic or presymptomatic individuals with COVID-19. The extent of any protection will depend on how the masks are made and used. It will also depend on how mask use affects users’ other precautionary behaviors, including their use of better masks, when those become widely available. Those behavioral effects may undermine or enhance homemade fabric masks’ overall effect on public health. The current level of benefit, if any, is not possible to assess.
        -snip-

        “Little evidence” means that they were saying they couldn’t come to a conclusion with any confidence. Further evidence has been gathered since that article was written and certainly than since the evidence cited in that article – both from clinical settings and real-world settings.

        > None of the Scandinavian countries wear masks extensively.

        Do you specialize in logical fallacies? That spread has been limited in some areas where there is little use of masks doesn’t imply that mask use isn’t effective. The causation for degrees of spread is, obviously, multifactorial.

        > The strongest correlation is to population density,

        See above. There are many causal mechanisms for which population density could be a moderator or mediator. Please show what evidence you use to conclude what is or isn’t the “strongest” correlation across different conditions (here’s a hint, you don’t have any).

        > This in one of the few places in the USA where it might be possible to ensure people are wearing masks properly…a military boot camp.

        Not only a logical fallacy, but even the use of a fallacy that contradicts what you wrote earlier – as congregate living (and population density) is clearly a factor that would apply to boot camp.

        No one says that mask wearing is the only factor, nor even that it would be more causal than other factors depending on circumstance.

        Please – can’t you do better than that?

      • If the government, or my neighbors, demand I wear a mask it is incumbent on them to prove they make a difference. It is not incumbent on me to prove they make no difference at all.

        Worse politicians and the media “sell” masks to the public by hiding the uncertainties you acknowledge. As the NAS report discusses, if the public believes masks make them safer than they actually do people may engage in risky behavior because they are wearing a mask.

      • > If the government, or my neighbors, demand I wear a mask it is incumbent on them to prove they make a difference. It is not incumbent on me to prove they make no difference…

        See, that’s part of what’s interesting to these appeals to Sweden. That kind of a widespread attitide is diametrically opposed to the public attitude in Sweden – where there is general trust in the government and a shared sense of responsibility as opposed to a self-centered (and I might add privileged) concern about minor inconveniences for the sake of public good.

        Keep not wearing a mask because you think it might not protect you, even if you don’t know whether there’s a chance that generally the public wearing a mask might results in tens of thousands of fewer deaths among your fellow citizens.

        Remakable.

      • Claiming facts not in evidence. As I said, humans amuse me.

      • Which facts did I claim which you doubt?

      • I wear a mask because the governor of the state I live in requires it. It is not the merchant’s fault that she can’t comprehend Michigan law. Absent that requirement, no I wouldn’t wear one because I don’t think they make much difference and because I would rather get the infection now than years from now.

        None of your arguments, or mine, are unique to COVID19, should we always wear masks now? This virus is demonstrably less severe for children than seasonal flu or pneumonia is, the CDC data makes that clear.

        https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku

      • doug –

        > I would rather get the infection now than years from now.

        The basic idea isn’t that you would be wearing a mask for YOUR protection.

        Given the basic uncertainties involved, you are choosing to roll the dice on other people’s welfare with a focus on your own welfare – because of a minor inconvenience.

      • Assuming the assumption that wearing masks are most important for protecting others…As both of us have done our entire lives for every other infectious disease.

      • None of us have a right to a risk free existence at the expense of others civil liberties. Never before have we been so hopelessly unrealistic to believe we had such a right.

  16. Breitbart is not my normal port of call but someone linked me to this

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/09/02/data-new-foreign-born-voters-in-swing-states-exceed-2016-margins-of-victory/

    It seemed to me a good assessment of the mountain trump has to climb in some of the marginal states as many tens of thousands of migrants, traditionally democrat voters, are eligible to vote this time round.

    Tonyb

    • Same with the margin of fraud. While typically voter fraud is minor (Rossi, Coleman, to name a few,

      Mail in voting has virtually no controls to prevent fraud.

      Florida 2000 – It should be to no one’s surprise, but it very difficult to have dimpled ballots or hanging chads when punching a single ballot at a time, but very hard not to have dimpled ballots or hanging chads when punching multiple ballots at a single time.

      • Joe

        I have no idea what sort of postal vote numbers we might be talking about nor how many may be fraudulent.

        Why is it thought to be the democrats more likely to carry out the fraud. Is there a history of this?

        Tonyb

      • TonyB – I was referring to the newer vote by mail procedures pushed by one party, Oregon, CO, etc.
        Not the absentee voting that has fairly good safeguards.

        Basically , mail ballots to all voters to last known address, then voters mail them in. Virtually no way to have sufficient controls to prevent fraud.

        Shouldnt be that hard to recognize the massive fraud potential.

      • Tony B- “Why is it thought to be the democrats more likely to carry out the fraud. Is there a history of this?

        I previously listed three prime examples above
        Johnson Duval county
        Kennedy – chicago

        to name a couple of well known examples.

      • “Mail in voting has virtually no controls to prevent fraud.”

        Aside from a few inconvenient facts.

        Just about every ballot is unique to precinct or county because of local races at the same time as the federal one.

        Each ballot must match to a registered voter and signatures are matched.

        Each registered voter can only vote once despite what Trump says.

    • > It seemed to me a good assessment of the mountain trump has to climb…

      What an interesting way to phrase it.

      • Joshua

        I would say Trump is behind, not helped by his performance over covid.

        Add in the effects of large numbers of mostly democrat voting migrants coming into the equation and he has a mountain to climb.

        Fortunately for him his opponent seems unable to climb anything higher than a molehill but if he were up against a Tougher opponent the democrat candidate could be measuring up for new curtains at the White house by now

      • Tony –

        I’d say that like any politician, Trump stakes out his political stances largely for the sake of political expediency. So I’d say that it isn’t that he has a “mountain to climb,” – as if there some object of God or nature that’s an obstacle for him to overcome, but that he’s chosen a strategy of harvesting resentment towards migrants to win election/reelection. It has worked well for him so far and it may well work for him next time.

        After all, it is a strategy that has worked well throughout history and is ascendant in authoritarian governments around the world right now.

    • Whatever votes accrue to the Democrats as a result of numbers of immigrants voting for the first time will be more than offset by sizable increases in the black and hispanic votes for The Donald, the alleged racist-xenophobe. I expect he will even do better among recent legal immigrants. I’ve been out among the people. POTUS has got the mo and he is headed to victory.

  17. Curious George

    “Have at it.” Dr. Curry, you are a genius. Thanks.

  18. Anti-fracking is a losing issue for democrats.Some civil rights leaders are taking a serious look at what it actually means:

    https://www.axios.com/civil-rights-leaders-natural-gas-d87e27de-b206-47bd-ac4e-d46e3da4f3b6.html

    Biden looks like he’s trying to extricate himself from some of the extreme rhetoric in his party, including his own.

  19. Curious George

    https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/San-Francisco-mayor-Breed-Pelosi-haircut-15538467.php
    [San Francisco Mayor London Breed was a guest on KCBS’s Radio’s daily “Ask an Expert” segment Wednesday morning and responded to a listener’s question about House Speaker Nancy Pelosi visiting a San Francisco hair salon on Monday.
    “Did Nancy Pelosi violate San Francisco’s health order?” the mayor was asked.
    “So look, Nancy Pelosi has done so much for this city and even this country and in the midst of this pandemic and all the stuff that’s happening amidst this election, she is in Washington D.C. fighting against a tyrant every single day,” Breed said. “We need to be focused on the issues and the fact that over 180,000 people have died in this country and we have a president that continues to divide us. “And the reason why salons and other businesses like this can’t reopen has a lot to do with where we are as a country and the fact we have not had strong federal leadership and that’s what she’s fighting against.”That’s what we should be talking about.”]

    That’s a progressive approach in a nutshell. Translation: Laws don’t apply to progressive elites. And the Orange Man is bad.

  20. What’s the point of a political thread if censorship is deployed?!

  21. I thought this was about politics in general not politics only applied to climate change. Climate change is a minor economic issue, but attracts inordinate attention from a political and socio-cultural point of view. It has become a type of secular religion according to Michael Shellenberger.

    IMO withdrawal from the Paris Agreement as a reason to vote republican doesn’t make sense. Governments have and will waste a lot of money on energy policy until some sort of rational analysis of the issues infiltrates. But Governments waste lots of money on lots of things. We should base our political choices on the total mix of policies offered by each political candidate/party.

    Climate change is no. 16 on Bjorn Lomborgs list of 16 – claimed to be based on a survey of 9.7 million people. The top 5 = Education Health Jobs Corruption Nutrition. I would give Trump a C on climate/energy/environment policy – yes withdraw from the agreement and encourage other countries to do the same, but at the same time pursue rational approaches to carbon pricing and other fossil fuel taxes and levies, remove unnecessary regulations but also protect legitimate environmental issues – ie. real pollution vs “carbon” pollution.

    Only my opinion but Trump and the Republicans get a Fail on every other issue. Trump probably will go down in history as the most corrupt and incompetent President ever, his only positive skill being a media performer – and then only as some type of cartoon character of himself.

    The Democrats get an F for climate/energy/environment, but higher on other policies eg. see the top 5 above – maybe at least a D+ or C on each. Trump’s only positive was supposedly his handling of the economy but this has been no better than Obama, the tax cuts did nothing and were the wrong tax policy to improve efficiency in any event. Foreign Policy = massive failures and embarassment in handling North Korea, Iran, The EU, NATO, China, and of course Russia. Security, Health, handling of Covid, Weather maps, etc. a mix of incompetence, stupidity, vindictiveness and racism. The highest ever turnover of senior officials, failure to learn from previous administrations, idiotic decisions like pulling out of the WHO for political reasons, etc.

    Yes all governments are imperfect and most barely competent, but Trump leads the most incompetent administration possibly of all time. Add the lack of transparency, nepotism, obstruction of justice, self dealing, decisions driven by political objectives, the level of corruption of this administration is so great it just then becomes a question of which is the distant second.

    So overall – no. Don’t vote for the Republicans. Get rid of Trump and his enablers in the Congress. Root out the Russian gangsters, criminals and white supremacist terrorists that support and feed off him, because this is much more important than trivial arguments about who is right or wrong about climate change policy.

    • I will be voting Republican. I understand the Democrats’ identitarian (aka racist) ideology classifies me as “person of color” (POC), which entitles me to privileges, and, if the Democrat Green New Deal gets passed, I will benefit from reparations paid by pale skinned male adults between 18 and 65 (go read House Resolution 109 and you will find this included in the text, although it’s worded in a subtle fashion). So even though I will benefit from those handouts, things look grimmer for my grandchildren, because my family is integrated into US society quite well, and some of them are too pale skinned and too Texas Bible belt to sell themselves as POC. So they will become part of the abused and discriminated against population because their skin is too pale, and they will suffer all sorts of indignities because supposedly they were born privileged and are racists. And I definitely don’t want that future for them.

      Then there’s foreign policy. Trump has performed much better than previous presidents, avoided getting soldiers into stupid wars, and is trying to disengage from foreign entanglements. This gets me on a personal level because I have a grandson in the military and he already served in South Korea and the Middle East, and I hate the idea that a Democrat like Obama or a neocon Republican like Bush will make more mistakes. Obama in particular made many serious mistakes, such as helping Libya become a failed state, igniting civil wars in Iraq and Syria, wrecking relations with Russia by encouraging Ukraine to make moves to join the EU and eventually NATO, looking the other way as the Chinese began imperial expansion, and throwing the Cuban and Venezuelan people under a bus.

      Trump’s push to reduce unemployment and emphasize US made was wise, as shown by the inability to respond to the pandemic properly because so much is imported from abroad. He made a mistake listening to WHO and Fauci wgen they said wearing masks didn’t help the general population, but he has done very well accelerating the use of medicines and palliatives such as convalescent plasma. And the super fast vaccine development would never have been possible with a Clinton or a Biden in charge.

      I dont like Trump’s big mouth, he tweets too much BS, probably because he’s an amateur and not a politician, and he has taken a lot of time to learn to pick decent secretaries and advisors, but he’s settling down, and his team is gradually improving to a B+.

      On the other hand his firm stance against riots and vandalism are a huge plus versus the Democrats, who in many cases are encouraging it. The Democrats’ kneeling and the pro BLM song and dance at their convention are nauseating. I have photos of BLM leader and cofounder Opal Tometi with Maduro and wearing a Venezuelan government uniform vest and ID tag. We know BLM are self declared Marxists, and their ideology is destructive if not downright evil. So my advice to family and friends is to vote GOP across the board, because a political party that encourages BLM is going to take the US into a very dark period.

      I want to mention that to me some Democrats have gone over the line defending late term abortions, which I see as putting babies in a large blender and turning the ON button. And I despise their emerging worship of science, which they use to justify skipping over common sense, engineering and economics.

      And that’s all I have to say about this topic.

      • Thanks for the considered reply. Identity politics is silly of course, but this is not something just Democrats practise. I get the impression you are a pragmatic right of centre conservative. I would classify myself as an evidence based utilitarian, ie. independent, liberal socially and regulated market based economically. So I probably disagree quite sharply over issues such as abortion, which is the concern of no one other than the women with advice from her doctor.

        Your concern about riots, safety and security with BLM/Antifa, is not supported by evidence. White Supremacists pose the greatest terrorist risk according the Intelligence experts (https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/04/white-supremacists-terror-threat-dhs-409236). Even on the evidence of the past few months, right wing groups have caused at least as much mayhem and most protests have been peaceful.

        The Pandemic?! Just look at the numbers – anywhere between 50 – 150,000 unecessary deaths, and now we discover Trump knew it was worse than he was publicly saying. What would a competent leader have done? Pandemic suspected: recommended policy = coordinate National Response (ie. don’t just leave it to the States), increase testing, Review and upgrade healthcare infrastructure, develop consistent protocols, develop quarantine guidelines and provide additional resources and housing if necessary.

        Trump is the standout failure amongst International leaders. Almost every other country provided fact based information and support to the people, and did or attempted to do the above list of policy approaches

        Is BLM / antifa / … marxist? Who cares? Is Biden beholden to Antifa/BLM? Of course not. The US Democrats under Biden / Harris / Pelosi / Schumer would be called right of center in comparable countries. The Republicans under Trump – are they beholden to right wing extremists, or just Russian gangsters?

        Neither party has compelling economic or social policies, and the US economy is no different under Trump than it was under Obama (https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/09/05/trump-obama-economy/). There is no economic reason to vote for Trump. Biden will likely be the same. A reconsidered Republican party without Trump has more potential to develop worthwhile evidenced based polices.

        So the economy, Trump gets a C, same as Obama. Everything else about Trump is bad. He is a negative and divisive figure. He is the hoax – a presidential hoax, a pathetic and sad person. However he is dangerous, plus he and his family should be held accountable for the corruption of the White house and money they have stolen from the American people

        By all means vote for republicans, but not Trump for president

      • The rest of your screed is at least arguable, but this little ditty proves that you are mistaken in your belief that you are intellectually and morally superior to the deplorable Republican race:

        “So I probably disagree quite sharply over issues such as abortion, which is the concern of no one other than the women with advice from her doctor.”

        Decent human beings are concerned that little fully formed living and viable human beings are being tossed in the trash. It’s a soulless minority that approves of infanticide.

      • @ Don Monfort

        I don’t know why you assume I believe I am morally and intellectually superior to anyone.

        However, based on your inflammatory, incorrect and straw man statement, “ .. fully formed living and viable human beings are being tossed in the trash”, I believe I have a better understanding of the legal and ethical background to abortion.

        Infanticide is the killing of infants, an infant = a human being from birth to about 2 months.
        A foetus in utero is not an infant, and abortion is therefore not infanticide. However is it murder, should it be a crime? That requires a legal opinion. Is it morally wrong? What is morality?

        Pregnancy involves a woman giving up some of her rights and freedom, as well as putting her own health at risk. So there is necessarily potential conflict between the interests of the woman and the unborn foetus. Also given that at early stages of gestation, they are neither fully formed or viable without the mother. This is why some jurisdictions define legal abortion in terms of the length of gestation. Does an unborn foetus have rights? If so, when do these rights exceed the rights of the woman to make her own reproductive choices. The facts are that late term abortions are not common (about 1% of total), and that very few people, including pro-choice, advocate for unrestricted access in 3rd trimester. This is the trade-off and the balance which the Supreme court considered in Roe v Wade.

        Your comment indicates an unexamined position, probably based on a religious view, but certainly not taking account that this issue has been considered (and resolved) by the courts, public opinion is in favor (although most only think in certain circumstances), and the progress in education and availability of contraception means women have more control over their reproductive rights, rates of abortion have not increased – probably decreased, and adverse health effects to women have largely been eliminated, except in States which have imposed subsequent restrictions.

        Your morality is just that, yours. It doesn’t apply to other people. You seem to not acknowledge that women have Constitutional rights that the Supreme court has established. Consider if you were subject to the beliefs and views of a group of women, which imposed restrictions on actions you could take, or forced to undergo a potentially risky 9 month medical procedure and a lifetime of financial imposition.

  22. Ok. This is hilarious. Some people on “the right” are actually (faux) *concerned* that “the left” is somehow disproportionately focused on political correctness and canceling people:

    Let’s see how many people on “the right” object to this speech code enforcement. My guess about as many who are *concerned* when Trump days he’s going to change libel laws to go after press that is critical of him, or about as many who were *concerned* when Trump went after Vindman, tried to silence his niece or Bolton, etc.

    -snip-
    Two House GOP leaders have officially called on Attorney General William Barr to determine whether House Speaker Nancy Pelosi broke federal law when she ripped up President Trump’s State of the Union speech earlier this year.
    -snip-

  23. Oh my.

    Have we got to the moon landings yet?

    Lewandowski would love this thread.

  24. What might an #AntiFragileEnergy policy look like?

    Focusing on nuclear power for base, a highly flexible natural gas system for emergencies and variability with excess capacity exported in good times, substantial R&D, and modest increases in solar and wind for portfolio diversification.

    If we focused on energy security properly, carbon emissions would be a moot point.

    Winner will announce a #GreenNuclearDeal as part of a broader #AntiFragileEnergy policy.

    This is by far the most important issue of the election.

    (Winters in North America were far more extreme is the past several hundred years than the hundred in which modern society developed. Recent harsh winters are just a small taste of what may be in store, regardless of what the global average temperature does. We are not prepared.)

  25. Back in April, Trump suggested hydroxychloroquine might be useful against covid-19. He was relentlessly berated by the MSM and TDS has resulted in it not being widely used in the U.S. Turns out Trump was right.

    Henry Ford Health System study found that HCQ reduced death rate from covid by 50%. https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

    Swiss and French experience showed 2 to 3 times higher death rate when HCQ use was temporarily stopped. http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-works-irrefutable-proof

    In the U.S., in spite of the above and tens of millions of doses used over several decades with no serious side effects; and in spite of knowing that treatment should be started as soon as possible; after hospitalization is probably too late. This is what doctors and the public get from a government bureaucracy: https://tinyurl.com/y7jux6yu
    “FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems.”

    Why is HCQ use restricted in the U.S. only to conditions where it is expected to be ineffective?

    • Curious George

      I did not expect that doctors would let people die only to “prove” that Trump was wrong. Will they allow HCQ after elections?

      The studies cited for the CDC decision used near-fatal doses of HCQ. To get a vivid description of those doses, read
      https://wattsupwiththat.com/2020/04/11/of-quinine-and-chloroquine/

    • The Zelenko protocol seems to be a rational and successful method to care for at-risk patients with Covid In the early stages. The NIH has misleading information on their Medlineplus website. Same thing, quoting the “dangers of HCQ“ in badly designed studies. So much rubbish trotted out to make this pandemic worse. Youtube is deleting doctors who speak sense, and the increasing censorship on facebook, its beyond disgraceful.

      • In Dr Zelenko’s words:
        “It’s unfortunate much of the news coverage surrounding hydroxychloroquine has been negative,” Zelenko added. “This study suggests that when taken early and together with zinc and azithromycin, this cost-effective drug can be part of the solution to the pandemic.”

      • The Dr. Zev Zelenko outpatient study, using the Zelenko protocol of low dose [400 mg/day?] HCQ + zinc + azithromycin (aka Z-pak) demonstrated an 80% reduction in bad outcomes. https://tinyurl.com/y68z2ahj

      • Zelenko says that an available alternative to HCQ is quercetin, which one can buy on Amazon. It’s a “supplement” that’s been sold for over a decade.

    • So ask yourself why an effective early treatment for Covid-19 would be fought against so viciously? It isn’t really doctors fighting against this; it’s the media, and we have to include some of the medical journals in this (recall the completely bogus Lancet study that had to be retracted.) So who is telling the media to fight this thing? Who would want people to die and the economy destroyed? Why is a false narrative being pushed so heavily?

      • Q. So ask yourself why an effective early treatment for Covid-19 would be fought against so viciously?
        A. Because it is not an effective early treatment.

        “Conclusions Our meta analysis does not suggest improvement in mortality, clinical progression, or negative conversion by RT PCR among patients with COVID-19 infection who are treated with hydroxychloroquine. There was a significantly higher incidence of adverse events with hydroxychloroquine use.”
        Hydroxychloroquine in COVID-19: an updated systematic review and meta-analysis. Jose Chacko et al. August 2020 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.20101774v3 (7 RCTs and 16 Observational studies)

        “Conclusion: This systematic review and meta-analysis showed no clinical benefits regarding HCQ treatment with/without azithromycin for COVID-19 patients. Although mortality rate was not significantly different between cases and controls, frequency of adverse effects was substantially higher in HCQ regimen group.”
        The Role of Hydroxychloroquine in the Age of COVID-19: A Periodic Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis. Amir Shamshirian et al July 2020 https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20065276v5 (26 studies reviewed, 21 included in meta-analysis)

        “No benefit on viral clearance but a significant increase in mortality was observed with HCQ compared to control in patients with COVID-19.”
        Hydroxychloroquine in patients with COVID-19: A Systematic Review and meta-analysis. Awadhesh Kumar Singh et al. May 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7215156/ (3 studies included in meta-analysis)

        “Taken together, we found that participants taking either CQ or HCQ have more AEs than participants taking placebo. Precautionary measures should be taken when using these drugs to treat COVID-19”
        Assessment of Hydroxychloroquine and Chloroquine Safety Profiles – A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis, Lu Ren et al, May 2020 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7274215/ (40 studies reviewed 20 placebo controlled included in meta-analysis)

        Q. So who is telling the media to fight this thing?
        A. Who cares. Most of the media are reporting the results of research reasonably accurately.

        Q. Who would want people to die and the economy destroyed?
        A. President Trump apparently.

        Q. Why is a false narrative being pushed so heavily?
        A. Ask President Trump and his allies who are pushing the false narrative.

      • @ pm610310

        Suggest you get yourself up-to-date. https://ahrp.org/how-a-false-hydroxychloroquine-narrative-was-created/

        https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.14.20101774v3 a meta anlaysis, is a preprint and not peer reviewed. Where’s the peer reviewed article?

        Same for your link https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.04.14.20065276v5.

        So are these early, pre-hospitalization trials? Do any follow the Zelenko protocol?

        Do any of these trials mirror the dosage of HCQ recommended by Zelenko, namely, 400 mg/day for five days?

        The plain fact is that modest early doses of HCQ recommended as a way to prevent hospitalizations and deaths are being ignored and even fought against. Some states have forbidden the use of HCQ in outpatient settings, exactly when it is alleged to be most successful.

        You cannot use high doses of HCQ in sick, hospitalized patients and then claim that HCQ early outpatient use with very modest doses for short periods of time doesn’t work and is dangerous.

        Any competent journalist would recognize what’s going on and report it, but instead they’re pretty much all singing from the same hymnal.

        Don’t tell me: this is all Trump’s doing. That bad man is pretending to be for HCQ but he’s actually actually against it and was directing Fauci because he wants to see people sick and the economy destroyed. Now he has the non-scientist Scott Atlas advising him and of course that man wouldn’t know science if it bit him in the atlas, as CNN tells us.

        Media telling us the straight scope? Media being fair and balanced? Media doing investigation? Or media feeding us BS by the shovelful?

      • “Media telling us the straight scope? Media being fair and balanced? Media doing investigation? Or media feeding us BS by the shovelful?“

        Media are disgraceful.

        I was born 2 months after D-Day, which means I grew up watching on TV, Douglas Edwards, CBS News; Clarabell, Kukla, Fran and Ollie, and Joe McCarthy. At times, they could be seen all in one night.

        Today, when watching the news, you get to see a journalist, clown, puppet and political manipulator all rolled up in one.

      • The one thing that HCQ research has conclusively proven to date is that the fake hysteria about HCQ being a deadly poison was a false left loon narrative invented because Orange Man Bad. It was eagerly adopted and promoted by the left loon media, which includes just about all of the varmints who call themselves journalists.

      • Don Monfort and cerescokid,
        You won’t get an argument from me!

      • @ The Dons

        At first I thought the Zelenko Protocol may be a posthumously released Robert Ludlum Book, but turns out that there is a real person, who managed to get a paper published with Derwand and Scholz (who did the data analysis only) about his theory of HCQ/Azith./Zinc. Turns out this is still to be peer reviewed in September, which may take some more time, since being a retrospective case study in which he is the only clinician with any patient contact, is more or less the definition of junk research.

        Never mind, he still put out a press release promoting it in July claiming, without qualifications or reservations the association with less hospitalizations and death, in other words ignoring the significant flaws in drawing conclusions from such a study (which the actual paper does highlight, I suspect Mssrs Derwand and Scholz may have added that). So he is just a doctor with an opinion, in other words no different from me.

        And yes – like your friend Zelenko, 2 of my references are preprint articles – not peer reviewed, but multi-author studies, which confirm earlier peer reviewed study conclusions. I would expect that unlike Zelenko, they will be published shortly with peer review with only minor edits. I only looked at systematic reviews and meta-analyses, because I have been reading and critiquing scientific and medical literature for 35 years so this is the best place to start.

        Incidentally, to answer your question, yes at least 15 of the studies (out of 21) used 400 mg per day, some with a loading dose of 800mg on day one. All of the others used 600mg per day and some with higher loading doses. Also of note is that dosage did not improve outcome – an indicator that there is no effect, other than adverse outcome.

        You also want me to bring myself up to date with conspiracy theorists like Dr Meryl Nass (https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/conspiracy-theories-and-ebola-virus-transmission/), who is also nothing more than me – a doctor with an opinion, in this case a fringe one.

        So what is it with Hydroxychloroquine, which has an anti-protozoal effect in Malaria, but generally used as an immune suppressant for auto-immune disease like Lupus. On the mechanisms alone, it would not seem to be likely to have any anti-viral effect (which the research is showing), unlike other well established drugs – dexamethasone and other steroids which have been shown to be helpful for Covid.

        I am obviously not a Trump supporter, but this has clearly showed beyond reasonable doubt that he is, to quote Rex Tillerson, a F****ng Moron. The Chinese Communist Party basically handed him the issue of a lifetime, on a platter, to win the election in a landslide, yet he has screwed it up from go to whoa. All he had to do was say to the American people what he said to Bob Woodward, then implement a National testing and tracing capability, social distancing, other public health, etc. In other words what every other sane leader in western democracies have done.

        I suspect he is sick of the White House and doing everything he can to lose. Maybe he will remake himself with a new TV show or something (as long as he is not in prison).

      • pm610310:
        Your opinion has been duly noted. Thanks for that.

        Since you rely on sciencebasedmedicine and I consider that site nothing but utter and pure misleading junk (and yes, I’ve read numerous papers in medicine and toxicology to inform my opinion) then we have nothing more to say to each other. My contempt for that site, and others like it, knows no bounds since it twists the truth and wraps it in sciency-sounding garbage: propaganda for the established order.

        Zelenko protocol:
        1. outpatient!!!
        2. 400 mg daily for five days plus azithromycin and zinc

      • > All he had to do was say to the American people what he said to Bob Woodward, then implement a National testing and tracing capability, social distancing, other public health, etc.

        Mortality rate in the US = 57.97 per 100k. In South Korea Mortality rate = 0.67 per 100k.

        https://reason.com/2020/09/09/is-the-u-s-handling-the-covid-19-pandemic-better-than-europe/

      • Joshua,

        At the time of the Woodward interview, there was a good deal of confusion about Covid-19. It’s OK to change one’s mind in light of new evidence.
        If Woodward is so upset about this, then why did he sit on this information for so long? If he believed the president was making a grave mistake, then why didn’t he speak up? Is he un-American? Care more for his career than for the American people? Or is this just more crap dished out before the election?

        In my view Sweden is the overall winner for handling of Covid-19 by western nations because they didn’t neglect to consider personal liberty/responsibility and economic/social impacts, and their infection rate and fatalities are now very low, contrary to every prediction made by Ferguson and the other bedwetters.

        I know: I’m irresponsible because I think there are things more important than staying safe from every freaking danger that might present itself. I suppose we’re going to lower the speed limit to 30 mph now to “stay safe”?How about we all wear helmuts while walking to “stay safe”? Ban swimming to “stay safe”? It really is pathetic. How about “stay free”?

        Tired of hearing about “stay safe.” If you want to stay safe then you’re welcome, but leave me out of it.

      • Don132 –

        I think that comparing across counties, without good control for confounding variables, is which there are many, is mostly an exercise in confirmation bias.

        But if you’re going to do it, then Sweden has had 60 X more deaths and obviously, much, much more illness than South Korea along with much, much less of an economic downturn. Same with Taiwan, Hong Kong, Vietnam, Thailand, Finland, Norway, unfunny see evidence that Sweden is significantly ahead of those other counties in terms of their ability to techie economically, and it still has a higher rate of spread than most of not all of them.

        I have spoken to a few Koreans and they don’t feel they have sacrificed their freedoms for the benefit of less death and less economic damage. Of course, some Koreans might disagree, but I tend to doubt that the majority do and I would guess neither do majorities in those other counties consider themselves as “bedwetters” or “pathetic” and I rather doubt that they’re terribly convinced that your manly courage in the face of a pandemic makes much sense at all. Given that all your self-glorification of your bravery is associated with illness, death, and economic hardship, while they may not be as condescending and derisive and demeaning as you are, I would guess that they aren’t looking look to you or our government for much leadership on these matters.

      • Joshua,

        Notice that I said “among western countries” with regard to Sweden. With regard to western nations it seem that lockdown, or not, made little difference.

        You want to blame that bad man Trump for a pandemic that hit the US pretty much exactly as it hit other western nations, is that it? Or are you advocating for a police state a la New Zealand? Who was in charge, anyhow? Fauci? You mean to tell me that the bad man Trump disregarded everyone and told everyone to get out and go to work, and so everyone caught Covid, is that it?

        Look, we “flattened the curve.” Hospitals were largely NOT overwhelmed, and Covid hospitals set up across the US were largely empty and unused.

        24/7 news cycle of Covid, Covid, Covid keeps the fear front-and-center. Enough already. We act like it’s the Black Death.

    • Dan: The Henry Ford data was not from a random-assignment clinical trial. Doctors gave HCQ (and other therapies) whenever they thought it was appropriate. The HCQ and no-HCQ groups differed in at least three important ways:

      1) Those treated with HCQ were twice as likely to also receive a steroidal anti-inflammatory. In random-assignment clinical trials, dexamethasone, steroidal anti-inflammatory increased survival by 30%.
      2) When azithromycin wasn’t used, the average age of patients treated with HCQ was 5 years younger than those not treated with HCQ!!!
      3) Few patients with cardiovascular problems were probably not given HCQ. We know this because none of the patients suffered from the side effects HCQ is known to cause. Cardiovascular complications increase the likelihood than any COVID patient will die.

      So, there were at least three reasons I have identified that the HCQ treatment population had a MUCH greater likelihood of surviving COVID – BEFORE they received HCQ! If HCQ had been replaced with a sugar pill, more patients would still have survived.

      The authors did try to create statistical models capable of compensating for the vast differences between the HCQ-treated and -non-treated groups. However, because this was a poorly controlled study, the confidence intervals for the factors in their model were huge … so huge that they didn’t find a statistically-significant benefit to using a steroidal anti-inflammatory drug. For that reason, their statistical model assumed steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs had no benefit. Furthermore their statistical model attempted to compensate for differences in age by dividing patients into two groups, younger than average (65?) and older than average. The risk of death rises exponentially with age, making younger or older than average poor descriptors of age-associated risk of dying. There are literally dozens, if not hundreds or thousands, of different statistical models that could have been used to analyze to the data from Henry Ford – and each one provides another chance of achieving statistical significance by chance.

      At best, the Henry Ford data says that it would be worthwhile to run properly controlled random-assignment clinical trials with HCQ. Those studies have been run. The method for analyzing their data was straightforward and chosen before the trial began. The results of such trials led the FDA to withdraw the emergency use authorization for HCQ.

      With the White House doctor around to listen to Trump’s heart every morning and night for signs of [changing] arrythymia, taking HCQ after possible exposure to COVID probably wasn’t very risky for Trump. However, it would have taken weeks for the drug to have cleared from his system if a problem had been encountered. This would have been far riskier for an average person.

      • I just noticed this stupidity. Quantify the risk from taking proper dosages of HCQ, frank. Out of the billions of doses of CQ and HCQ over the the last eight decades that have been swallowed by a gazillion people, how many folks have died? How many suffered cardiac arrhythmia? You don’t have a clue.

        The case of the lady under homicide investigation for giving her husband a beverage with a fatal dose of aquarium cleaner does not count, frank. Save him from making a fool of himself on that BS story.

      • Don: Hydroxychloroquine, like many other drugs, is known to cause torsade de pointes (TdP), development of an abnormal cardiac rhythm that causes sudden cardiac death in a small fraction of patients. People with QT prolongation, an abnormality that can be detected in an electrocardiogram are in much greater risk of dying of torsades de pointes or having heart arhythmias. 14 Drugs have been withdrawn from the market because they cause serious QT prolongation and more than 100 other carry warnings.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Torsades_de_pointes

        President Trump, who has presumably had a recent EKG and who had a doctor to listen to his heart daily in the White House, was probably at little risk from this side effect caused by hydroxychloroquine. However, those in the community who want to take HCQ regularly or after-possible exposure are running a small risk of sudden death. Since the risk of dying from COVID is relatively low (0.05% in the US on average), it is possible that more people could be killed than saved by taking HCQ to PREVENT infection. People who are older and have co-morbidities like heart disease are more likely to die from COVID and from HCQ.

        Since QT prolongation was unknown when HCQ was first discovered, the risk of torsade de pointes was never properly quantified. The connection between QT prolongation and torsade de pointes has been established for many decades. It is simple to do experiments in animals demonstrating what doses of a drug cause QT prolongation. Today, every new drug candidate must go through a series of tests to assess QT prolongation because it is difficult to catch rare side effects in clinical trials and because the QT prolongation is additive if a patient is already taking another drug that causes modest QT prolongation. At the company I worked for, QT prolongation would prevent any new drug candidate from moving into clinical trials no matter how good the candidate looked otherwise. We were told to find a safer molecule. However, there are many drugs like HCQ still being used don’t meet today’s standards for safety. If HCQ were really useful for treating COVID, I’m sure hospitals could manage the risk. I’m not sure whether it would make sense for doctors to prescribe HCQ to a low-risk or high-risk COVID patient (diagnosed or suspected) at home. That is why we run random assignment clinical trials on a well-defined patient population – to properly quantify the benefit and risk of treatment. Messy studies do not involve random assignment don’t provide definitive information.

        There are other liabilities with HCQ. The terminal half-life of the drug in patients is 40-50 DAYS. In other words, the drug builds up over time. If heart arrhythmia is detected, the drug will remain in the patient’s for months. And the blood levels are below the level needed to see anti-viral activity against SARS-CoV-2 in cell culture. Most useful antivirals have blood levels 10-fold higher than needed to show antiviral activity in cell culture experiments.

        So, yes Don, I do have a clue about HCQ. And I know know more about HCQ than DT.

  26. The probability that Trump will be able to name a Supreme Court Justice to replace Ginsberg should trump all other issues

  27. There are more than two candidates running for president this year. There is no reason to accept the one of the two deeply flawed candidates the major parties put forth. It is because most people hold their nose and accept the candidate from their “side” that we keep getting deeply flawed candidates from the major parties.

    • That’s so funny. That sort of nonsense isn’t going to work this year to help elect Trump.

      There is one charlatan, ignoramus, racist, sexist, habitual law breaker, want-a-be dictator who knows nothing about basic civics, US history, or much else besides fleecing people.

      Then there is Joe Biden.

      • That’s the argument of the cynical delusional stoopid Dems in a nutshell (pun intended), jimmy. And it isn’t going to work.

  28. I might vote for Amash or Weld, if they were still in, and Trump weren’t running

  29. -snip-
    Barr claims a man collected 1,700 ballots and filled them out as he pleased. Prosecutors say that’s not what happened.
    -snip-

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/elections/2020/09/03/trump-biden-live-updates/

  30. Science ends and politics begins in cognitive bias – unless the first is tempered by humility and the second by practicality. In climate science there are more unknowns than knowns – although with such a profusion of science ephemera it may appear otherwise. Where is a great unifying idea? A rhetorical question of course.

    “By ‘Noah Effect’ we designate the observation that extreme precipitation can be very extreme indeed, and by ‘Joseph Effect’ the finding that a long period of unusual (high or low) precipitation can be extremely long. Current models of statistical hydrology cannot account for either effect and must be superseded. As a replacement, ‘self‐similar’ models appear very promising. They account particularly well for the remarkable empirical observations of Harold Edwin Hurst.” Mandelbrot and Wallis, 1968, Noah, Joseph, and Operational Hydrology

    Despite the extremes of climate change – driven by an inscrutable dynamic complexity of thresholds and persistent states – statistical hydrology works acceptably well in most eventualities. What relevance after all does a 1000 year storm have for a 10 year road drainage design? There are implications – however – over decades to millennia for surface water storages, aquifers, ecologies and agriculture – but the world is adaptable by needs must and we are clever monkeys. In science flexibility balances uncertainty. In politics there is no right or wrong – merely middle ground pragmatism. In both it makes sense to take a solid stance – ‘the captain of my soul’ – from which to respond to vagaries of wind, storm or social upheaval. In both it pays to have a wise and clever person like Joseph in charge.

  31. Welcome to LogicalFallacyOlympics.BandWagon

  32. Thank you for the new thread.
    Benford’s Law and Temperature Fraud
    https://chiefio.wordpress.com/2011/12/03/benfords-law-and-temperature-fraud/
    I came across this law taking a break from the most important election of all time anywhere. Netflix Connected. Do you know where all the dust in Atlantic comes from? And it appears to be a hurricane killer.
    Chiefio points out the problem with Temperature ranges being limited. But is there something as I think he mentions, with using the 2nd and 3rd digits? The digits after the first one should be random maybe or have some natural distribution.
    I have never claimed fraud. But could the adjustments cause the data to stop following whatever the distubution should be?
    That it’s natural, seem true: The distance to other galaxies, using any unit of measure you want, follows Bentford’s Law.

  33. Henry Zentgraf

    Hi Judy. I just finished reading this thread. It proved again to me that scientists make terrible political analysts. Hope this is the last one I have to read!

  34. The key political issues as seen from outside the US today include:

    1. Mike Pompeo believes neither in Free Trade (Nordstream II is a project borne of free trade), the rule of law (threatening ICC officials for investigating US crimes) nor the right of non-US nations to inalienable rights to pursue liberty and happiness in their own lands (never-ending Russophobia and sabre-rattling, not to mention gearing up for war with China).

    Why is this man deemed a fit and proper person to hold office in any nation purporting to be a democracy?

    2. The West considers its people to be mentally subnormal cretins by making out that Vladimir Putin would send Alexei Navalny to Germany full of Novichok so useless that it hadn’t killed him in the plane, more than a year after totally failing to kill Sergey Skripal and his daughter in Salisbury with the same stuff, despite daubing it all over a hotel in London, Mr Skripal’s doorknob and leaving a whole perfume bottle full of the stuff in some bushes to potentially kill the whole flaming town if it got out….Mr Putin rose up through the KGB, which knew rather a lot about how to kill people. If he wanted Navalny dead, he would already be dead…..

    3. Covid19 is a total scamdemic designed to wipe out bricks n mortar competition to digital businesses. Not to mention providing cartel-style superprofit revenues to ‘vaccine manufacturers’ for decades to come.

    What is not being said is that the acceptable collateral damage for that is the social traumatisation of a whole generation of young children….

    A PCR test is not a diagnosis of disease. It does not matter if Anthony Fauci or any other US official says otherwise, if they do, they are liars. So are all the media prostitutes trying to plug ‘second wave’ scenarios. And so are the UK lackeys who just do what the bullies in DC tell them to…..

    Death rates from Covid19 in Europe are now at an absolute trickle. There is no basis whatever for lockdown any more. There never was in the first place, but there we are…..

    4. A virulent and totalitarian Establishment is now calling anyone who calls them out on their manipulatiions, outright lies and smearing tactics a ‘far-right nazi’, an ‘anti-semitic fascist’ or the like. But they are saying nothing about a black woman in Oxford who has publicly stated that she wants white men to be her slaves…..

    5. Committing genocide in Yemen is no longer news. Far more important is trashing the global economy.

    6. Overthrowing foreign governments is now seen as situation normal by US voters. We have complete contempt for all of you who let it continue through doing nothing: just like Germans in the 1930s, the lot of you….

    7. The major flooding episodes in China this year are not news, at least not in terms of the implications it may have for Chinese food needs through winter 2020/21. Why talk about helping your neighbours if you can use climate as a way to crush a nation onto its knees, eh? Some of the most repulsive things I have ever read have come from the minds of certain US citizens on this subject. To say I responded tersely would be to completely underscore the depth of the contempt expressed to a blog hoster on that score…

    You will note I have not mentioned Biden vs Trump.

    That is just a Punch and Judy show. Your oligarchs have sown up both tickets long ago.

  35. I didn’t vote for Trump in 2016 because I considered him unfit for office. I considered Hillary an even worse proposition so I did not check a box for President.

    After three years and change I feel he’s still a petulant child but he also nominated the best group of federal judges in my lifetime.

    The alternative candidate is a zombie controlled by a party that has promoted riots and was scared to death of COVID until they decided whiteness was a worse disease.

    I refuse to support a party that encourages rioting when every study ever has shown that the biggest victims of riots are the black communities. There are still boarded up businesses in Ferguson.

    Lastly, any group which concentrates on the minuscule number of blacks killed by police while ignoring the very real pathologies (no fathers in the home, no regard for education, purchasing habits) in the community resulting in continued slaughter of men, women and children yet claims ‘Black Lives Matter’ is a fraud.

    I have a feeling I’ll sit back once again and let the U.S. pick its poison.

    • Harkin –

      > I refuse to support a party that encourages rioting when every study ever has shown that the biggest victims of riots are the black communities….

      Looking beyond your characterization of “encourages rioting” there’s a significant problem with your take, imo.

      For many people, choosing to just sit it out is a more sub-optimal path than choosing the lesser of evils and exercising their right to vote. That is particularly true for many blacks given our history of denying black people the right to vote or putting discriminatory obstacles in front of blacks who seek to exercise that right, for so many years.

      Some 25% of Democratic voters are African Americans. Although blacks are underrepresented among Democrats in congress, they are much better represented among Democrats than the are among Republicans. Although many blacks lean more conservative than the average Dem, they still vote for Dens in overwhelming numbers because they see Demz as a clearly better option than Pubz. And so comprise a much higher % of Dems in Congress and Dem voters.

      Unless you think that you’re smarter than most of the black people who choose to vote, and know better than they do what is in their own best interest, if you’re concern is about the welfare of black people, you might reconsider whether it makes more sense to also choose the lesser of evils. In the real world, in not voting for Biden you would effectively be casting a vote for Trump. If you think that rioting in black communities is a good outcome, then perhaps recent events would suggest that another four years of Trump would be worth voting for. Of course, maybe as he says “[He] one can fix it” [you know, American carnage). But along with that promise of his, unkept by the way, he also promised that after 4 years in office he’d win 95% of the black vote. If you think that’s going to happen, then not voting, or voting for him, might make sense if you’re concerned about black communities. And if so, is there any chance you might be interested in the purchase of a bridge in Brooklyn?

      • Thinking the bridge is available for purchase seems similar to voting for the same party for decades that has never once brought positive change.

        Turning blacks against whites just shows how low Dems are prepared to go to preserve that vital 25%.

        Oh btw – there would be a lot more black voters if Dems hadn’t convinced them that killing 20 million of their children since Roe v Wade was a progressive action.

        “The tragic reality is that 79% of Planned Parenthood abortion facilities are located within walking distance of neighborhoods that have proportionately higher populations of black or Latina women. An analysis of census tract data clearly documents that this kingpin of the abortion industry targets women of color, selling them the illusion that they must choose between career advancement and the lives of their babies. Any doubt about this skewed impact on women of color would be dispelled if Planned Parenthood were to publish data on the proportion of its abortion clients who are minorities. Planned Parenthood pointedly declines to release this data.”

        https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/since-roe-abortion-has-killed-more-black-babies-than-the-entire-black-population-of-the-u-s-in-1960

      • > Oh btw – there would be a lot more black voters if Dems hadn’t convinced them that killing 20 million of their children since Roe v Wade was a progressive action

        Ah, there we go. That didn’t take long. So, Blacks don’t have their own agency, can’t decide for themselves who they should vote for, don’t know for themselves what’s in their own best interest, but instead they vote for who Democrats convinced them to vote for. Yeah like I said didn’t take long. Especially, since blacks comprise a fairly large percentage of the Democratic Party.

      • > Thinking the bridge is available for purchase seems similar to voting for the same party for decades that has never once brought positive change.

        Once again, you seem to be flawed in your logic. Clearly, the majority of black voters, an overwhelming majority, think it’s more in their interest to vote Democratic than it would be for them to vote Republican. That doesn’t mean that they wouldn’t like to have seen more progress. It just means that in their judgment they’re more likely to see progress, or less likely to see movement in the wrong direction, if they vote for Democrats. Of course you could always try to explain to them why you know better what they should be doing that they do. Good luck with that. That kind of messaging has worked extremely well for the Republican party, as you can well see.

      • Here we have an example of either profound misinformation or willful blindness. “If you think that rioting in black communities is a good outcome, then perhaps recent events would suggest that another four years of Trump would be worth voting for. Of course, maybe as he says “[He] one can fix it” [you know, American carnage). But along with that promise of his, unkept by the way,”

        The rioting/property destruction has been mostly if not all in Dem controlled cities and states where help from Trump was rejected.

      • > The rioting/property destruction has been mostly if not all in Dem controlled cities and states where help from Trump was rejected.

        Perhaps you’ve forgotten that Trump said that “[He] alone could fix it.” And apparently many suckers believed him. After his being proven wrong, like the cult members they are, they avert their eyes and hold on to the dillusional belief that dear leader is infallible despite his lies, false promises, failure at accountability, failure to act like a decent human being, failure to make logical arguments, etc.

        They look the other way when he describes military members’ serious and traumatic brain injuries as “little headaches.” They look the other way when he criticizes a war hero, former Republican Party presidential candidate, for getting captured. They look the bother way when he lies and says that “Anyone who wants a test can get a test.”

        Of course, some of his supporters don’t avert their eyes, and admit to it all, and just think that his ability to marshall support for some policies they favor is worth the trade-off for voting for a lying con man. Some aren’t fooled, and aren’t in the cult, but just love that he so openly expressed hatred for libz and demz.

        So which are you? Do you acknowledge that his platform was built on ridiculous lies, told to encourage fawning allegiance and fealty? Or do you fall into the category of supporters who recognize his lies but have decided to not hold him accountable for being a buffoonish con man because he’s able to advance policies you like?

        Or are you a cult member?

      • Joshua,

        Did you see the clip where Biden claimed that Edison did not invent the light bulb but a black guy did?

        I’ve read Lewis Latimer’s patents: interesting and well-written. But Latimer did not, and did not claim to, invent the incandescent light bulb.

        Now, this does not appear to be a slip of the tongue: this seems to have been a planned part of Biden’s speech.

        So… what do you think is going on here? Was the mistake Biden’s own error? Personally, I do not think he is functioning well enough to even have created the error.

        So, if a staff member put it in, and since we know the staff will actually govern if Biden wins, what does this say about the competence of his staff?

        Yes, yes, I know you will lash out with your usual ad hominem… but I am actually a registered Democrat. I do not love the Donald; I think he has been a rather mediocre President, though not quite the Satanic figure you seem to paint him as.

        So, for once, put aside the ad hominem. What do you think is going on with this Edison thing?

      • Joshua

        As an observer I would like your opinion as to how the leader of the Western World has come to such a state that it can present Biden and Trump as candidates for President?

        Similarly last time round with Clinton and Trump. What is going on? There are surely some brilliant candidates somewhere amongst the huge range of politicians in America. Why have they not come to the fore?

        Tonyb

      • After a bit of googling, it is unclear to me if Biden’s weird mistake about the invention of the light bulb was in fact from a script or if he was just winging it — in which case it is Joe himself who is indeed deeply confused.

        Joshua (or anyone), can you tell which it is? And, again, Joshua, how do you explain this rather bizarre disconnect from reality?

      • It was actually a surprise to me to learn that Louis Latimer actually made the first practical light bulb. Edison’s never lasted more than 15 hours.

        https://www.cnn.com/2020/09/04/us/biden-lightbulb-black-man-trnd/index.html

      • tonyb

        Rest easy. Since Trump, we are no longer the leader of the western world. We are a Russian satellite state.

      • James

        Being a group of disparate restless democracies the West needs a leader of its General direction but also of Nato, If not Trump, who?

        I am not sure I believe Biden has what it takes.

        Is there a new generation waiting in the wings who will take up that role?

        Tonyb

      • Trump reportedly said he wanted to pull the US from NATO multiple times last year

        https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/15/trump-privately-said-he-wanted-to-pull-us-from-nato-report.html

        So the answer is obviously not Trump if you are looking for somebody to lead NATO.

      • “…and know better than they do what is in their own best interest…”
        School choice.

      • “So, Blacks don’t have their own agency, can’t decide for themselves who they should vote for, don’t know for themselves what’s in their own best interest…”
        Be honest. What you said above applies to both parties. You aint Black.

        I never thought I’d see the abortion issue turn around. It is. Live by the sword.

      • Dave –

        > Now, this does not appear to be a slip of the tongue: this seems to have been a planned part of Biden’s speech.

        So… what do you think is going on here? Was the mistake Biden’s own error? Personally, I do not think he is functioning well enough to even have created the error.

        I don’t know why you’re assuming mutual exclusivity. My guess is that there was some planned component to the reference and that he screwed it up.

        Seems to me it happens with Trump all the time also – there are components where Trump has planned elements in his speeches and he riffs on it and he screws it up.

        > So, if a staff member put it in, and since we know the staff will actually govern if Biden wins, what does this say about the competence of his staff?

        Even though I don’t agree with the causal logic that led to your conclusion, I think that both Biden and his staff are very incompetent – but no less so than Trump and his staff.

        > Yes, yes, I know you will lash out with your usual ad hominem…

        See – that’s just not true. Go find these supposed ad hominems. I don’t generally engage in that way. Of course, at some leel it depends on what you mean by ad hom…the more technical meaning (dismissing an argument because of who’s making it) or the more common usage (online insults), but you won’t find much at all of either despite the many ad homs launched in my direction. I criticize the logic of people’s arguments – although many times people think that I’m attacking them at a personal level because I’m explaining how bad their arguments are. I get that there is kind of a connection…but that’s as close as I get to ad homs for the most part.

        > but I am actually a registered Democrat. I do not love the Donald; I think he has been a rather mediocre President, though not quite the Satanic figure you seem to paint him as.

        I don’t think he’s Satanic. I think he’s totally incompetent and that he seeks to leverage hate for his own personal gain. And I think its quite notable, and often hilarious, how people twist themselves into knots to convince themselves that either of those characteristics aren’t the case.

        > So, for once, put aside the ad hominem. What do you think is going on with this Edison thing?

        Once again, your “for once” is not at all accurate. I get it’s your impression – but you’re wrong. I won’t say that either an insult or a critique of someone’s argument based on who they are won’t slip through – but it’s relatively rare and if you’re going to challenge you to actually take some time to see if you’re right – and when you see that you got it wrong to give some thought as to why you had an incorrect perception.

      • Dave –

        And I have a question for you. Do you consider mis-characterizing my arguments (as typically involving ad homs when in fact they don’t) is an ad hom?

      • Ragnaar –

        > “…and know better than they do what is in their own best interest…”
        School choice.

        Well, it is true that there’s a fairly significant difference, in general, between views among Democrats about “school choice” in association with race.

        But I would like to see examples, as you imply, of white Democrats saying to Black Democrats that they don’t know what’s in their own best interests (with regard to school choice). Certainly, I can find you tons of examples where Republicans/conservatives say that blacks are voting against their best interests, or don’t know what’s good for themselves, and thus they should be supporting Republicans rather than Dems.

        Having a difference of opinion on a topic doesn’t necessarily imply that someone is saying that those of a different opinion are unable to determine for themselves what’s in their best interest.

        We certainly can see examples of libz/Demz arguing that many working class whites vote against their best interests by voting for Republicans. We might even say that they’re arguing that it is a function of their race, in the sense that it is a function of their racist attitudes – but that’s kind of indirect.

        > “So, Blacks don’t have their own agency, can’t decide for themselves who they should vote for, don’t know for themselves what’s in their own best interest…”
        Be honest. What you said above applies to both parties. You aint Black.

        Huh? Biden wasn’t saying that black voters, as a block, are too stupid to know what’s in their own best interests – which is the argument that we see all the time from conz/Pubz/and in these threads. And what’s funniest about that argument is that it seems that the conz/Pubz think that they’re going to convince black voters to vote for Republicans by telling them that they’re too stupid to vote in their own bests interests and so, they should listen to their superiors and instead vote for who their superiors condescendingly explain are the politicians who would be more likely to serve in their best interests.

        And the conz/Pubz are too thick to understand why years and years of such messaging doesn’t pay off in votes.

      • Tony –

        > As an observer I would like your opinion as to how the leader of the Western World has come to such a state that it can present Biden and Trump as candidates for President?

        My opinion is that our two party system is broken, and the nomination system is broken. If they ever worked, our society has transformed over time into a state where they certainly don’t work now.

        > Similarly last time round with Clinton and Trump.

        It goes back further. Demz nominated terrible candidates in Gore and Kerry as well.

        > What is going on?

        It’s hard to say, but I’d say that in part it’s because in the Dem party there are such large differences among the various constituencies that only the most mediocre of candidates can gain enough support through the primary process. With Obama, at least there was someone who is intelligent and charismatic and a good speaker and who can think on his feet and who doesn’t come across as completely disingenuous. But Biden, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry had none of those attributes. In a political frame, Obama was fairly mediocre as they all are – despite the laughable claims from the right that he was some kind of radical soshlist. Biden is trying to tack a bit to the left from his politically mediocre roots, and it would be interesting to see how that might work with a candidate who wasn’t so inept at a personal level – but unfortunately we don’t have the chance to find out.

        > There are surely some brilliant candidates somewhere amongst the huge range of politicians in America. Why have they not come to the fore?

        In part, it seems because people with common sense can’t get through the nominating process – say someone like a Justin Amash or a Bill Weld for Republicans, or a Sherrod Brown for the Demz – and in a sense that’s because people with common sense tend to not be mediocre enough politically. But I think it’s hard to generalize. Each 4 years there are context-specific aspects. Bernie Sanders was able to move the party leftward and isn’t total incompetent like Biden – but he didn’t have a broad enough appeal and didn’t get much black support (in part because he was too left for many black voters, in part because he didn’t run a good campaign w/r/t black support, in part because he was running against Obama’s vice-president and someone who had a fairly long history of interaction with black voters).

        For Republicans, there isn’t the same kind of pressure to be mediocre politically. If you look at the pool of Pub candidates in 2016, there were quite a few that Represented the more extreme edges of the Republican voting block. I don’t think that Romney or McCain were such terrible candidates – but they were running on a political platform that just is too far right for the American public.

        The irony is that if the Demz could nominate someone who isn’t totally incompetent and who doesn’t come across as a phony, and who didn’t have high unfavorability ratings – they’d probably have beaten Trump fairly easily last time and would certainly beat him fairly easily now.

      • Joshua

        Many thanks for your excellent reply. My son was in Stanford University in 2012 as part of his physics degree and he brought me back a mug featuring Mitt Romney and some ‘dollar’ bills featuring Sarah palin. So this disconnect goes back some time. It’s a good mug that I still use.

        Romney came over as very arrogant but when he made his concession speech he sounded altogether different and much more human

        Biden was on the radio yesterday morning and at first I thought it was Trump when he is talking softly and trying to be reasonable, but the guy was terrible. Perhaps he had an off day but he didn’t strike me as presidential material

        Trump has not had a good year and the democrats should be streets ahead. Why they shoot themselves in the foot with Biden this time round and Clinton in 2016 I do not know.

        Is there room for a third party in the states, politics over there seem very polarised?

        Tonyb

      • Joshua wrote to me:
        >I don’t think [Trump’s] Satanic. I think he’s totally incompetent and that he seeks to leverage hate for his own personal gain. And I think its quite notable, and often hilarious, how people twist themselves into knots to convince themselves that either of those characteristics aren’t the case.

        Hmmm…. And you do not think this is an ad hominem attack.

        When I look through your comments, this is typical.

        I think people like you may well cause Trump to win.

        You could argue about Trump’s trade policy, for example: I myself think Trump is wrong on that — I do not think the stagnation suffered by American workers is due to Chinese stealing American jobs but rather to poor US economic policy.

        But Trump “leverage[s] hate for his own personal gain”!!!!!!

        Every politician criticizes his opponents; every politician lashes out against those who criticize him. They have to.

        Some politicians are quite gratuitous about it, as when Hilary made the foolish crack about “a basket of deplorables” — cost her the election.

        But as far as I can tell, Trump actually likes people, from Herschel Walker to guys on construction sites. He is probably more of a “people person” than you or I.

        Your leveraging hate comment is typical of guys on your side of the current Presidential contest.

        I have voted in twelve Presidential elections, and I have voted for candidates from three different political parties, not counting the time when I got so disgusted with all the partisan nominees that I wrote in a candidate.

        I am the proverbial “swing voter” that you need to win over.

        And your and your friends’ constant comments suggesting that Trump uniquely “leverage[s] hate” without providing any convincing evidence is really turning off people like me.

        That is what happened in 2016, and the polls show it is starting to happen again in 2020.

        I do not know who will win on November 3, but you might want to rethink whether the rhetoric you and your friends use is really the right way to appeal to swing voters like me, rather than actually focusing on real issues such as I mentioned above.

        Because it isn’t.

        Maybe you don’t care. Maybe you are happy to lose as long as you can vent about how Trump “leverage[s] hate.”

        In which case you may get what you wish for.

        Dave

      • “I think people like you may well cause Trump to win.“

        Wow. Is that ever on target. Absolutely true.

        I don’t think I’m exaggerating to say that over the last 4 years I’ve read more than 500,000 comments of Trump supporters in a variety of places.
        One of the common complaints and irritations of those supporters is being lectured to and denigrated with ad hominem attacks such as being Nazis and racists by those who believe they are superior or have superior values. Among those comments are a startlingly high number of Trump supporters who have been ostracized, disowned, estranged or otherwise dumped by family members and friends. This is so bizarre that I’ve spent a bit of time trying to understand that mentality. I’ve concluded a segment of the left views Government the way some zealots view their religion. Absolutism. The same kind involved in the Sunni/Shia schism or those refusing to attend a wedding of a family member because it’s to someone outside their religion.

        They accuse others of being in a cult while being in a cult of worshipping government of their choice, which is the epicenter of their universe and seen as a panacea to all human problems.

      • Watch their faces when the black and hispanic votes are counted up, dave.
        They are even failing to convince the alleged victims of POTUS Trump’s alleged hate leveraging.

      • I think the dems know how absurd the things their base expects them to do actually are and don’t want to actually be in power right now. They know they can’t do something like the GND and if they get in power and don’t there will be a backlash.

      • Dave –

        > Joshua wrote to me:

        I always find it interesting when someone switches from a direct exchange to directing comments at a supposed audience instead of directly to me. So why did that happen here? Interesting, don’t ya’ think?

        > Hmmm…. And you do not think this is an ad hominem attack.

        I guess that you and I have different working definitions of what an ad hom is. I think of an ad hom as a form of argument where you go against an argument not by focusing on the argument itself but on the character or motivation of the person making the argument. I didn’t do that in the segment you quoted. People twisting themselves into knots to avoid the implications of what they’re arguing isn’t a statement of someone’s character or motivation. We’re all hypocrites at one level or another. It’s not an attribute that distributed unevenly across the political divide, IMO. But yeah, I think that in the case of Trump, he engenders that kind of reaction to an unusual extent. Look at how evangelicals have flipped their views on the importance of a politician’s behaviors for determining his fitness to hold office. Look at the string of prominent Republicans, like Lindsay or Ted who have completely flipped in their expressed views on Trump. I don’t recall such knot-twisting as being typical. Maybe you do.

        > I think people like you may well cause Trump to win.

        I love this. I get a “you people” after being told that I “typically’ make ad home arguments. Do you think that you are engaging in ad homs, Dave?

        > You could argue about Trump’s trade policy, for example:

        Sure, the way that may Pubz had turned themselves into knots to do a complete reversal on their views on trade policy is a great example of exactly what I was talking about. Thanks for bringing up that example..

        > Every politician criticizes his opponents; every politician lashes out against those who criticize him. They have to.

        See, that’s another example. You may not think that Trump has elevated insulting opponents – not just on their views but personally, and with insults not just “criticism” isn’t something that we’ve seen much of before. Perhaps you think that the levels at which he does so isn’t typical. You’re certainly entitled to that view but I think that you’re kidding yourself. We saw Clinton engage in a similar kind of rhetoric with the whole “deplorables’ thing and it became a rallying cry for Pubz in 2016.

        > Some politicians are quite gratuitous about it, as when Hilary made the foolish crack about “a basket of deplorables” — cost her the election.

        Ah, yes. You got to that. I agree that it’s the same kind of rhetoric – but I don’t think that it’s even close to being on the same scale. And yes, Clinton had to try to walk it back – which proves my point. Trump doesn’t need to do so because it’s pervasive for him and an explicit strategy. It’s his brand. Exactly my point. He leverages hate in a deliberate and explicit fashion.

        > But as far as I can tell, Trump actually likes people, from Herschel Walker to guys on construction sites. He is probably more of a “people person” than you or I.

        Lol. Yeah, he likes people as long as they don’t disagree with him or get in the way of his achieving his goals. But for anyone who doesn’t fit with that description, or who becomes critical of him after originally earning his favor, the insults come out. The list in that 2nd category is long. Consider just a few like Sessions or Tillerson, or Kelly, or Cohen, or Mattis, or..well, you get the point. The list is long. And we can see how it works in the other direction, like with Ted Cruz. It isn’t a completely unique category of phenomena, but I’ve never suggested it was. But what is unique is the depth and extent to which it is characteristic of Trump’s political strategy – and it is explicitly what appeals to many of his supporters. Of course, there are some Trump supporters who readily acknowledge exactly what I”m saying regardless. But then we have others of his supporters who twist themselves into knots to deny it. Yup – that’s exactly what I was describing. We even have life-long conservatives and Republicans – many of them, who are rejected Trump for basically that reason. The long list of life-long Republicans who have left the Republican Party for exactly that reason is an unprecedented phenomenon. Look at how Romney, McCain, the Bushes, etc., have refused to support him even though he has been a part of advancing quite a few policies that they have long supported

        > Your leveraging hate comment is typical of guys on your side of the current Presidential contest.

        Ah yes, the “you guys” again. Interesting.

        > I have voted in twelve Presidential elections, and I have voted for candidates from three different political parties, not counting the time when I got so disgusted with all the partisan nominees that I wrote in a candidate.

        Dave – you seem like a nice enough guy but I don’t particularly care about who you have and haven’t voted for. There’s no reason to think that you are a particularly instructive example. You are making a mistake I so frequently see in the blogosphere. Simply by being here you are an outliers. Don’t try to generalize from outliers. It’s an analytical mistake.

        Ok – I’m done. I just skimmed the rest and it seems to me like a lot more “you guys”. I’m not interested.

      • I’ll bet that Trump and people like Hemmingway liked Jennifer until she confirmed reporting that casts Trump in a negative light.

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/media/2020/09/05/jennifer-griffin-defended-by-fox-news-colleagues-after-trump-twitter-attack-over-her-confirmation-atlantic-reporting/?

      • Only a dumb putz or an ax grinding TDS left loon would believe that Jenn Griffin “confirmed” that POTUS Trump said what anonymous sources have lied about him saying.
        Griffin went to the same ax grinding anonymous sources that told the story to the Atlantic. Conformation would be a recording, or some credible witnesses coming forward with credible evidence or a coherent story and timeline.

        Why they bringing this alleged terrible thing up now? Come on, man. This is just another desperate hoax. Like the desperate late hit Kavanaugh hoax. I know thousands of veterans and many currently serving. This suddenly urgent defamatory sleaze from anonymous TDS scumbags is not going to fly. Gonna be another backfire blowing up in old senile sleepy joe’s face. Just more wind under the Big Orange Fella’s wings. It’s on. Warriors on Trump’s team.

      • Only a dumb ____ or an ax grinding TDS left loon would believe that Jenn Griffin “confirmed” that POTUS Trump said what anonymous sources have lied about him saying.

        Griffin went to the same ax grinding anonymous sources that told the story to the Atlantic. Confirmation would be a recording, or some credible witnesses coming forward with credible evidence, a coherent story and timeline.

        Why they bringing this alleged terrible thing up now? Come on, man. This is just another desperate hoax. Like the desperate late hit Kavanaugh hoax. I know thousands of veterans and many currently serving. This suddenly urgent defamatory sleaze from anonymous TDS scumbags is not going to fly. Gonna be another backfire blowing up in old senile sleepy joe’s face. Just more wind under the Big Orange Fella’s wings. It’s on. Warriors on Trump’s team.

      • Don –

        Lol. Thanks for illustrating my point – as someone who’s probably convinced himself that it isn’t extremely likely that Trump would say exactly the things that have been reported. Yup, much more plausible that these senior officials have TDS, just like Tillerson, Sessions, Cohen, Mattis, Fauci, Kelly, McMaster, Bolton, Scaramuci, Short, Taylor, Cohn, Coats, etc.

      • Why do you always claim that some reply refuting your nonsense is making your point, joshie. It’s really a dumb tactic. Are you delusional enough to believe that?

        Why did you name all those people? Got any quotes from them on this issue? Other than Bolton, who says he was there and it didn’t happen. When is the last time Bolton passed on an opportunity to stab Trump in the back?

        You are really struggling. Where do you find the time to flounder around here day and night, night and day, day in and day out? Pathetic.

      • Don –

        > Why do you always claim that some reply refuting your nonsense is making your point, joshie.

        ‘Cause you made my point, Don.

        Someone who is transparently turns himself into knots so as to avoid acknowledgimg the obvious truth about Trump: that it would be entirely consistent to who he is to say those things. But instead you suck up the obviously phony spin like a hoover and call anyone who tells the truth about Trump, even former favorites and military heroes and insiders, all kinds of names and say they have TDS. C’mon, you have to admit it’s hilarious that Mr. “I will only have the best people in my administration” talks all these people up about how great they are, only to talk about how horrible they are when they don’t go along with the cult.

        I’ll bet you believed even twisted yourself into believing that stunt with the bible in front of the church was because he’s a deeply religious man who was acting out of his deep faith.

        To funny. Keep it up, Don. I love it when you comment and prove my point.

      • You are pathetic.

    • Joshua wrote to me:
      > There’s no reason to think that you are a particularly instructive example.

      Except I am: I grew up in a lower-middle-class / working-class community in the Midwest. I saw how people there feel about the contempt the coastal elites and the professional, verbalist “overclass” feel towards them. And now I am a member of that professional class out here on the West Coast, so that I can see how that class thinks up close and personal.

      And so I was not particularly surprised when the lower-middle-class / working-class voters in flyover-country elected the Donald, imperfect as he most assuredly is.

      You and the people you support just ooze contempt for a large fraction of your fellow Americans, and those fellow Americans really do not like it. You do it here constantly when you respond to people who disagree with you.

      Josh also wrote:
      >The long list of life-long Republicans who have left the Republican Party for exactly that reason is an unprecedented phenomenon. Look at how Romney, McCain, the Bushes, etc., have refused to support him even though he has been a part of advancing quite a few policies that they have long supported

      Well, personally, I have, long before Trump ran, deeply despised the Bushes and McCain: bloody-minded, murderous warmongers all.

      As someone who hates war, I consider the fact that the warmongers hate Trump to be one of Trump’s most positive points (same thing for the evil John Bolton, by the way — I never could grasp why Trump hired him in the first place!).

      Joshua wrote to me:
      >I always find it interesting when someone switches from a direct exchange to directing comments at a supposed audience instead of directly to me. So why did that happen here? Interesting, don’t ya’ think?

      That’ comment is paranoid. I write “Joshua wrote to me” to make clear when I am quoting you. Some people are not explicit in that way, and it gets confusing. Some forums do this automatically; this one does not.

      And, of course, anyone in a public forum such as this is talking not just to a single individual but also to everyone who might read it.

      Joshua also wrote:
      >People twisting themselves into knots to avoid the implications of what they’re arguing isn’t a statement of someone’s character or motivation.

      You consider that statement a compliment then? Most people would not like having that said about them. You wouldn’t, either. You could just talk about their ideas and not how (you think) they are “twisting themselves.” About as classic ad hominem as it gets.

      You do what you accuse Trump of.

      Josh asked me:
      > Do you think that you are engaging in ad homs, Dave?

      No: I am trying to explain to you that by saying bizarre things such as that Trump “leverage[s] hate” you are obscuring substantive things for which you could criticize Trump: I even gave an example (his mistaken views on trade).

      Josh also wrote:
      > Consider just a few like Sessions or Tillerson, or Kelly, or Cohen, or Mattis, or..well, you get the point.

      You wouldn’t get angry if guys you hired to work for you publicly denounced you after they quit or were let go?

      You claimed that Trump “leverage[s] hate.” The only things you could give to justify that were the fact that a lot of truly evil politicians who are responsible for the deaths of innocent people — such as the Bushes and McCain — do not like Trump.

      You cannot grasp that an awful lot of your fellow Americans hate murderous politicians just as I do.

      So, yes, you attack your fellow Americans by claiming they are “twisting themselves.” Do you ever post anything that is not ad hominem?

      You are a textbook example of the contemptuous, verbalist overclass, whose contempt towards their fellow citizens pushed so many into the arms of Donald Trump.

      And you will never be able to see it.

  36. This was a bad idea for a thread, admit it…

  37. This was a bad idea for a thread, admit it…

  38. UK-Weather Lass

    Left, Right or Centre, I don’t see any remaining decency within politics, Since social media became a measure for vanity projects we seem to have lost all connection with reality.

    • UK weather lass

      Good observation

      social media has given everyone a voice and numerous opinions many of them not thought through. I was told many years ago that when replying to emails , if it was at all contentious, I should not send the reply until the following day.

      That has been turned on its head with twitter for example being used for instant stream of consciousness type thinking. I would like to think some people regret the absurd or horrible things they say but I think social media has revealed how many extremists there are at all ends of the spectrum. It doesn’t take too many organised extremists to move a crowd in their direction.

      tonyb

  39. National COVID numbers — Benford’s law looks for errors
    https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-020-01565-5
    At the link there is a link to a pdf.
    China and South Korea (Partly MIA) versus Donald Trump’s America on page 4 of the pdf. On page 4, some of the names are truncated. Read the analysis.

    Today’s good news is the idea of cumulative temperature to get to a Benford’s Law distribution of first digits. For Minnesota you take degrees F above -45 for the daily high temperature. Then just keep adding those up. That’s on average 100 F a day. Over a long enough time frame, it’s hoped the expected distribution emerges.

  40. Sooner or later, a climate activist Democrat president will occupy the Oval Office. When this happens, everything Donald Trump ever did while he was president will be quickly and completely erased.

    Suppose, for purposes of argument, Joe Biden becomes that climate activist Democrat president. If Biden wants to achieve an 80% reduction in America’s carbon emissions by 2050 — President Obama’s original goal — then massive spending on Green New Deal projects combined with a carbon pricing scheme cannot and will not get the job done.

    Fossil fuels are just too convenient as an energy resource and too demand-inelastic for America to reach the 80% reduction target within thirty years using the plan the Democrats are now proposing.

    If Biden is serious about an 80% reduction by 2050 — a.k.a. ‘Net Zero’ because it is the same thing — then he must impose a government-managed system of carbon fuel rationing which directly limits the quantities of fossil fuels that Americans can import, produce, refine, distribute, and consume.

    The only possible means of reducing America’s carbon emissions as quickly as climate activists say is necessary is to use the power of government in ways that make all carbon fuels as scarce and expensive today as they will be in a hundred years time.

    Here is an alternative plan for reducing America’s carbon emissions 80% by 2050. The plan is entitled the Supply Side Carbon Emission Control Plan (SSCECP).

    The plan uses a series of Executive Orders which combine existing provisions of the Clean Air Act with existing provisions of national security legislation to create an integrated regulatory approach for increasing the cost of all carbon fuels and for systematically restricting their future availability.

    In short, the SSCECP uses the power of the federal government to create and enforce an artificial shortage of carbon fuels while directly raising their prices and directly reducing their import, production, distribution, and consumption.

    Here are the major phases of the plan. The start and end dates listed for each major phase assume a climate activist Democrat is elected president in 2020.

    SUPPLY SIDE CARBON EMISSION CONTROL PLAN (SSCECP) — Major Phases:

    Phase I: Establish a legal basis for regulating all of America’s carbon emissions. (2007-2020. Status complete.)
    Phase II: Expand and extend regulation of carbon GHG’s to all major sources of America’s carbon emissions. (01/22/2021 – 12/31/2021)
    Phase III: Establish a fully comprehensive regulatory framework for carbon. (01/01/2022 – 12/31/2022)
    Phase IV: Implement the carbon pollution regulatory framework. (Year 2023 through the Year 2049)
    Phase V: Declare success in reducing America’s carbon emissions 80% by 2050. (If complete by 2050 or some earlier date.)

    Here are the details of the plan:

    SUPPLY SIDE CARBON EMISSION CONTROL PLAN (SSCECP) — Detailed Description:.

    Phase I: Establish a legal basis for regulating all of America’s carbon emissions. (2007-2020. Status complete.)

    — File and win lawsuits to allow regulation of CO2 and other carbon GHG’s as pollutants under the Clean Air Act. (2007)
    — Publish a CAA Section 202 Endangerment Finding as a prototype test case for regulation of carbon GHG’s. (2009)
    — Defend the Section 202 Endangerment Finding in the courts. (2010-2012)
    — Establish a recent precedent for taking strong government action in response to a declared national emergency. (2020)

    Phase II: Expand and extend regulation of carbon GHG’s to all major sources of America’s carbon emissions. (01/22/2021 – 12/31/2021)

    II.A: – Presidential Actions, Phase II

    II.A.1 — Issue an Executive Order declaring a carbon pollution emergency.
    II.A.2 — Assign a joint task force of the US Environmental Protection Agency (US-EPA), the US Department of Homeland Security (US-DHS), and the US Department of Energy (US-DOE) to manage the declared emergency.
    II.A.3 — Create a joint interagency Carbon Fuels Control Board (CFCB) to manage a phased systematic reduction in the production and distribution of all carbon fuels.
    II.A.4 — Issue a series of Executive Orders as needed to define and implement America’s carbon emissions regulatory framework.
    II.A.5 — Establish a public relations outreach program to explain and defend the actions being taken.

    II.B: – EPA Actions (Carbon Emission Regulation), Phase II

    II.B.1 — Publish a Clean Air Act Section 108 Endangerment Finding which complements 2009’s Section 202 finding.
    II.B.2 — Declare carbon emissions as Hazardous Air Pollutants (HAPs) under CAA Section 112.
    II.B.3 — Establish a National Ambient Air Quality Standard (NAAQS) for carbon pollution.
    II.B.4 — Use the NAAQS for carbon pollution as America’s tie-in to international climate change agreements.
    II.B.5 — Defend the Section 108 Endangerment Finding, the NAAQS, and the Section 112 HAP Declaration in the courts.

    II.C: – CFCB Actions (Carbon Fuel Rationing), Phase II

    II.C.1 — Research and publish a provisional system for government-enforced carbon fuel rationing.
    II.C.2 — Defend the provisional system of carbon fuel rationing in the courts.

    Phase III: Establish a fully comprehensive regulatory framework for carbon. (01/01/2022 – 12/31/2022)

    III.A: – Presidential Actions, Phase III

    III.A.1 — Issue a series of Executive Orders as needed to further define and further implement America’s carbon emissions regulatory framework.
    III.A.2 — Monitor and coordinate the activities the US-EPA, the US-DHS, and the US-DOE in response to the carbon pollution emergency.
    III.A.3 — Monitor the activities of the Carbon Fuels Control Board (CFCB) in reducing the import, production, and distribution of all carbon fuels.
    III.A.4 — Maintain and expand the public relations outreach program needed to explain and defend the anti-carbon actions being taken.

    III.B: – EPA Actions (Carbon Emission Regulation), Phase III

    III.B.1 — Publish a regulatory framework for carbon pollution under Clean Air Act sections 108, 111, 112, 202, and other CAA sections as applicable.
    III.B.2 — Establish cooperative agreements with the states to enforce the EPA’s anti-carbon regulations.
    III.B.3 — Establish a system of carbon pollution fines which is the functional equivalent of a legislated tax on carbon.
    III.B.4 — Establish the legal basis for assigning all revenues collected from these carbon pollution fines to the states.
    III.B.5 — Defend the comprehensive system of carbon pollution regulations in the courts.

    III.C: – CFCB Actions (Carbon Fuel Rationing), Phase III

    III.C.1 — Establish cooperative agreements with the states to enforce the government’s system of carbon fuel rationing.
    III.C.2 — Establish a time-phased, hard-target schedule for reducing the production and distribution of all carbon fuels.
    III.C.3 — Establish production control agreements with private sector fossil fuel producers and distributors.
    III.C.4 — Establish a guaranteed profit schedule for the carbon fuels industry in return for production & distribution cutbacks.
    III.C.5 — Defend the government’s system of carbon fuel rationing in the courts.

    Phase IV: Implement the carbon pollution regulatory framework. (Year 2023 through the Year 2049)

    IV.A: – Presidential Actions, Phase IV

    IV.A.1 — Issue a series of Executive Orders as needed to further define and further implement America’s carbon emissions regulatory framework.
    IV.A.2 — Monitor and coordinate the activities the US-EPA, the US-DHS, and the US-DOE in response to the carbon pollution emergency.
    IV.A.3 — Monitor the activities of the Carbon Fuels Control Board (CFCB) in reducing the import, production, and distribution of all carbon fuels.
    IV.A.4 — Maintain and expand the public relations outreach program as needed to further explain and further defend the anti-carbon actions being taken.

    IV.B: – EPA Actions (Carbon Emission Regulation), Phase IV

    IV.B.1 — Commence operation of prior agreements with the states for enforcement of the EPA’s anti-carbon regulations.
    IV.B.2 — Commence the collection of carbon pollution fines and the distribution of fine revenues to the states.
    IV.B.3 — Monitor the effectiveness of the EPA’s carbon regulatory framework in reducing America’s GHG emissions.
    IV.B.4 — Monitor the effectiveness of renewable energy projects in reducing America’s GHG emissions.
    IV.B.5 — Monitor the effectiveness of energy conservation programs in reducing America’s GHG emissions.
    IV.B.6 — Adjust the schedule of carbon pollution fines upward if progress in reducing America’s GHG emissions lags.
    IV.B.7 — Defend the EPA’s system of carbon pollution regulations in the courts.

    IV.C: – CFCB Actions (Carbon Fuel Rationing), Phase IV

    IV.C.1 — Commence operation of prior agreements with the states for enforcement of the the government’s system of carbon fuel rationing.
    IV.C.2 — Commence operation of production control agreements with private sector fossil fuel producers and distributors.
    IV.C.3 — Monitor the compliance of fossil fuel producers and distributors with their CFCB production control agreements.
    IV.C.4 — Monitor the profit levels of fossil fuel producers and distributors for conformance with the CFCB’s guaranteed profit schedule.
    IV.C.5 — Defend the government-mandated carbon fuel rationing program in the courts.

    Phase V: Declare success in reducing America’s carbon emissions 80% by 2050. (If complete by 2050 or some earlier date.)

    — The President issues a proclamation that the target of an 80% reduction has been achieved.
    — The President, the US-EPA, the US-DHS, and the US-DOE assess the need for continuing the EPA’s anti-carbon regulations and the US Government’s mandatory fuel rationing program as necessary to maintain the 80% goal.
    — If a determination is reached that the government’s system of carbon control measures must continue beyond 2050, existing agreements with the states and with private sector fossil fuel producers and distributors are extended with appropriate modifications.
    — Defend the government’s anti-carbon measures against emerging lawsuits if these measures must continue beyond 2050.

    Remarks:

    Once again, a key point here is that not another word of new legislation is needed to enable this plan. The entire plan is implemented through a series of Executive Orders covered under existing environmental and national security legislation and under constitutionally legal Executive Branch authorities.

    The SSCECP employs EPA-administered carbon pollution fines as the functional equivalent of a legislated tax on carbon. The plan supplies a powerful incentive for the state governments to participate in directly regulating America’s carbon emissions by assigning them the great bulk of the revenues produced from the EPA’s carbon pollution fines.

    In addition, the plan keeps the import, production, and distribution of carbon fuels in private hands. Rather than nationalizing the oil and gas industry, the plan enlists private corporations as contracted agents in managing the government’s energy rationing programs. The government also guarantees a steady and healthy rate return from the sale of all carbon fuels produced by those private corporations which choose to participate.

    Would the voting public accept the personal and economic sacrifices which go with imposing government-mandated, strictly-enforced anti-carbon measures?

    If the Democrats are truly serious about greatly reducing America’s carbon emissions by 2050, they must acknowledge that it can’t be done without using the full power of the federal government in coercively forcing those emission reductions.

    • Curious George

      I am afraid I am a carbon-based life form.

      • Curious George, like all members of the human species living in a country where carbon emissions are 20% of what they were in 2005, and per-capita consumption of electricity is half of what it was in 2005, then you and everyone else must learn to improvise, overcome, and adapt.

    • Beta blocker

      The net result of all that is that the US is such a big user of fossil fuels because, compared to most of the rest of the world, they are very cheap.

      If you were to raise fuel prices for heating and prices for gas for your cars to the European levels your business competitiveness would be much reduced.

      So the question is, are the voters prepared for large hikes in energy prices and to see your trade suffer accordingly?

      Tonyb

      • Tonyb, my opinion is that serious public resistance would not develop until the federal government’s bold anti-carbon measures were well into the implementation stage, by which time those bold measures would be a fait accompli just as was the case with Obamacare.

    • Merely a tiny preview of ineptness one must expect from a Biden administration: a puppet government run by a cadre of Marxists yanking on Biden’s strings as they force their collectivist will to stamp out representative government; and any concept of separation of powers derived from federalism:

      Rolling brownouts in California caused from the rapid dismantling of fossil fuel utilities, replaced with alternative energy sources; CA’s grid can’t keep up with the demand.

      California boasts about providing a high percentage of its power from renewable sources — “more than 32 percent of in-state generation in 2018 came from clean energy sources.”

      “But cloudy conditions reduced solar generation produced across the state and breezes lagged, which dropped production from wind farms.”…“And here we are, facing diminished imports” from other states.”

      “…the outages and energy shortfalls bring up the question about whether California is moving too quickly to shut down “baseload” fossil fuel energy sources such as natural gas plants”.

      https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/business/energy-green/story/2020-08-17/california-experiences-first-rotating-power-outages-in-19-years-what-happened

      California experiences first rotating power outages in 19 years. What went wrong? – The San Diego Union-Tribune
      The bad old days — and nights — of rotating power outages in California are back for the first time in nearly 20 years. And they could be back in a big way for the next few days. But unlike …
      http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com

    • Beta Blocker,

      The United States is a democracy. Most Americans are not strongly convinced that anthropogenic CO2 is a major problem, so they are not going to be willing to suffer serious declines in their standard of living to reduce carbon emissions.

      Your plan seems to rest on “Executive Orders.” Any President who does what you suggest will be booted out of office at the next election and the Executive Orders you support will be revoked.

      Note: I am making no statement about climate change at all. I am merely pointing out what is obvious to anyone familiar with the American political system.

  41. When the cult gets their clutches into you, there’s nowhere else to go.

    Black Voters No Longer Buying Democrat’s Systemic Racism Lies | Rob Smith | POLITICS | Rubin Report

    If Biden wins, we are going to see radical transformation. The Democrats have been lying to Blacks for a long time. Now they are lying at at least twice the previous rate. They will turn on the Democrats. The Democrats would be in a better position by losing to Trump.

    • > The Democrats have been lying to Blacks for a long time

      Classic. Ignores that blacks make up a significant % of Democrats.

      And further, is based in a belief that you are smart enough to see through the lies whereas blacks are too dumb to do so…

      Yeah, in sure that blacks are going to line up with those calling them idiots any minute now.

    • > The Democrats have been lying to Blacks for a long time

      Classic. Ignores that blacks make up a significant % of Democrats.

      And further, is based in a belief that you are smart enough to see through the lies whereas blacks are too dumb to do so…

      Yeah, in sure that blacks are going to line up with those calling them id*ots any minute

      • There’s a good chance it was Rob Smith that said words to that effect.

        So are you giving up your ability to see through lies that another person makes to another person?

        Joe Biden recently lied to people with, There are good people on both sides… He wasn’t speaking to me.

      • As we see readily with Trump, people can see “lies” and still support a candidate.

        Also, as we see with you the definition of “lies” is being gamed rhetorically so as to stimulate the response in people who are triggered.

        But you can’t run an hide from the condescending nature of the argument being presented – that white elites are able to see through lies whereas blacks can’t, and thus don’t vote in the way that the white elites think they should be voting. Deal with it.

        Blacks vote for Demz, overwhelmingly, because they overwhelmingly think that Demz represent their interests better than Pubz. It doesn’t mean that they mindlessly can’t see the ways in which they could be better represented.

      • Says the bumbling Josh, sycophant to anything marx.

        The Left have perfected a form of racism in the U.S., through the last few decades, that can best be described as socialistic racism; used as a means to empower the Democratic party.

        So socialistic racism is the divisive use of race as a tool to advance the Lefts agenda, utilizing identity politics. This racism is leveraged in the shadows of an honest discussion surrounding race, rendering its use the appearance as being above reproach. It provides targets for intimidation to secure ownership of demographic voting blocks. Socialistic racisms primary attribute uses relentless false charges of racist branding to sculpt societal division. After segregating a demographic group into a voting block (using devices such as cultural appropriation), it secures this vote through gratuitous pandering.

        Socialistic racism is deployed in myriad other ways; pandering to race demographics to secure votes; open borders; sanctuary cities; the promotion of welfare to illegals. It’s used to foment racial tensions; all while framing the Democratic party as savior. It’s the exploitation of minorities for power, yet delivering little in the way of promises.

        Other ways socialistic racism is used: to punish and stigmatize individuals or groups by accussing and labeling those as racist who oppose Leftist dogma. It’s sometimes used as a red herring to leverage legislation with; to advance climate change legislation through division of class, as example. Socialistic racism creates indentured servitude through its purchase of political power, targeting race demographics and facilitating, through its promotion, an indigent population wholly indebted to the Democratic party.

        Socialistic racism breeds apathy. It in effect punishes self reliance and personal advancement through hard work by utilizing grievance tactics, it creates oppressive, prejudiced, and bigoted policies under the veil of caring to secure the vote. It foments hate and bigotry through division in its attempt to cower all opposition towards a Marxist political agenda (i.e., BLM). Marx would be proud seeing the tactical mechanics, and other machinations promoting his ideology, all used to sculpt his proud collectivist vision.

        The left leverages this power through its virtual control of the media, and certainly through any institution (education) that national discourse evolves from. These are all cogs in the lefts political apparatus. It’s calculated. The left must have strife to wield power, otherwise they’re powerless. This is why we’re seeing systematic breakdown of society as a larger portion of our economy is used to merely tread water.

        Socialistic racism incites and amplifies discord via community organization, even through the church, fostering anarchy to break down societal structure. It’s expressed in contrived dog whistle codes; and used by evangelist educators for cultish programming; all PC approved methodology.

        Socialistic racism is the cattle prod of global political ambition, its empowerment facilitates a perpetual state of need for the state, while incubating wholesale societal insecurity seeking “the”solution, all crafted in the awaiting, kind, open palms of Marx kindred spirits. The goal: overwhelming dependent political indentured servitude and the indebtedness towards Marxist ideals for life on the euphemistic virtual Democratic plantation; this is the political slave trade of the 21st century. Democrats always find a way.

      • J:

        I am going to assume you’re being honest here. The title is that of the video. It’s a good one.

        I wrote:
        “The Democrats have been lying to Blacks for a long time.”

        I think it’s consistent with a part of the video starting around 6:00 and lasting less than 10 minutes.

        Rubin or someone on his team came up with the title, that strongly implied the Democrats were lying. And I applaud Rubin for not being afraid. Smith may not have said lie but it was not that far from that word. He’s Black.

        Now according you, it’s White elites. Okay. The Clintons and the Bidens are White elites. Pelosi & Trump are too. But Rednecks are not White elites. I am not a White elite. Rubin is probably one.

        I think you’re implying I am being condescending. I would say policies since the 1980s have been condescending. Championed by White elites. Who are not Rednecks. The Rednecks could have not come up with such tragic policies.

        Que Trump: What have you got to lose? Trump was actually the signal that this Black/Democrat alliance is going to collapse. Even if Biden wins. They shot all their bullets. They’re pulling the trigger on an empty gun.

      • Ragnaar –

        > Okay. The Clintons and the Bidens are White elites. Pelosi & Trump are too. But R*dnecks are not White elites. I am not a White elite. Rubin is probably one.

        You’re continuing to ignore my point.

        Clinton and Biden and Pelosi are white elites, for sure – but they aren’t telling Blacks that they vote overwhelmingly for Democrats because they’re too stupid to know what’s in their own best interests.

        They aren’t telling blacks that they should just fall in line and vote for white elites like Trump and Pence and McConnell and Cotton and basically 95% of the Republican Politicians, and against the much, much higher % of politicians who aren’t white elites that comprise the Democratic Party and the Democratic Party’s constituency which is significantly comprised of non-white elites.

        No, white elites are telling them that they should be voting for Republicans, because they should just ignore what they know from their own life experiences, and believe that actually, it’s Republicans who, despite being white elites, and despite having hardly any non-white elites in their party, are actually better understand what’s in their best welfare than they themselves do.

        Funny, that messaging doesn’t seem to have much resonance. I wonder why? It seems so convincing., right?

      • Ragnaar –

        Clinton and Biden and Pelosi are white elites, for sure – but they aren’t telling Blacks that they vote overwhelmingly for Democrats because they’re not smart enough to know what’s in their own best interests.

      • Ragnaar, “I am going to assume you’re being honest here. The title is that of the video.”

        Actually my comment wasn’t based off your reference, but maybe you thought I was channeling from it, if so, that’s not the case. But what video? What title? I’d be interested in reviewing this video you refer to. Relating to the concept of socialistic racism, you’re missing the overarching concept when dovetailing those who are real racists in the same context as socialistic racism, the latter is a political tactical device. This might be expected if you thought I was channeling Rubin.

        There are increasing numbers of blacks breaking away from what they describe as Democratic plantation politics.

        “Now according you, it’s White elites.” I didn’t say this, it’s not just whites at all, many of its most powerful evangelists aren’t white. Socialistic racism starts with ideology, it targets all races using the many schemes I previously described. It’s a tactical phycological device brandished by all races on the extreme Left of politics, who use this form of racism as leverage. Think of it as a marxist anvil, the product it spins off are ideological shackles encircling victims captured within its distortion field. There’s real racism to be sure, but socialistic racism amplifies it, distorts it; it makes many things about race that aren’t. It channels racism for the power to control, it’s fundamentally a Marxist tactical device. Cultural appropriation was invented so race demographics remained pure, segregated, how can identity politics target a group of people that are in the melting pot called America?

        I first saw the term, socialistic racism, in an english translation of some french article a decade or so ago. I immediately recognized in it what is occurring in Leftist U.S. politics. Socialistic racism is working so well we’re seeing BLM sweep Europe, such is the power of its coercion.

        My general thoughts came after some reflection while attempting to sort out the complexities surrounding our national discourse about race and politics. What’s occurring culturally today is largely bent by Marxist politics, its draconian cultural political implementation has created an embittered and ever widening, dangerous social chasm. But this is the very goal of Marxism. Ironically socialistic racism has nothing to do with race at all, it’s about advancing ideology; individualism versus collectivism (Marxism). It’s the utilization of elite surrogates to promote Marxist principles, race is the veiled surface it hides behind. At a certain critical mass, it self amplifies and distorts further. Antifa (anti fascists) are fascists, and socialistic racists, but they don’t have a clue they are, or have any historical context to recognize the absurdity of their distorted views, or vision.

      • trunks –

        Lol. Look for the “J” at the top of Ragnaar’a comment

      • J, you finally say something right. No matter, mine didn’t go to waste.

        R, disregard. I’ll review the video.

      • Still trying to figure out what’s tripping the moderation filter.

        They aren’t telling blacks that they should just fall in line and vote for white elites such as Trump and Pence and McConnell and C*tton and basically 95% of the Republican Politicians….and that they *shouldn’t* vote for the party which is comprised of a much higher percentage of non white elites.

        It’s funny, the widespread view among some political activists so well-represented here, that black people have no agency, and only vote they way that they do because that’s what leaders of the Democratic Party tell them to do.

      • J:

        When I say the policies of the Democrats have not worked out well for the Blacks, I am not saying anything about Blacks being stupid or not.
        I know something like in the school districts of Minneapolis, Blacks have the worst school results however they measure whatever. Not only compared to Minnesota but enough to make Minneapolis and Minnesota look racist. Minneapolis is a blue city in a blue state. And their City Council is reimagining stuff around the clock.

        At the top of this thread I reference a video. I doubt Rubin is saying Blacks are stupid. Same with Smith.

      • Ragnaar –

        > I doubt Rubin is saying Blacks are stupid. Same with Smith.

        Lol. Let me ask you, do you think that the people who live in your community are the best judge of who should be their representatives in Congress? Or do you think that some highly politicized activist/pundit, who has never lived in any community remotely like your community, let alone your actual community, and never had life experiences like the members of your community hadn’t had, is better equipped to evaluate the veracity of your community’s representatives and whether they are lying to you and your neighbors?

        What is the ability that you and Rubin et al. have that enabled you to see that Demz lying to blscks and taking them for a ride while blscks can’t see that for themselves? What is it that blacks are lacking in comparison to you, if not your intelligence and superior insight?

        And do you still not realize that when you are saying that Democrats are lying to blacks you are largely saying that blacks are lying to blacks, as blscks make up a significant % of Democratic politicians?

        Do you have any idea what % of Republican politicians are bkack and what % are elite whites?

        Look, I’m not going to assume that this set of beliefs that you apparently shared with Rubin rt al. is racist as I’ve never met any of you, but it’s certainly bizarrely illogical and condescending and I can’t really think of a better explanation other that either rabid partisanship/hatred of Demz, or racism. Maybe you have another explanation?

      • J:

        Well it’s settled then. Blacks should continue to elect Democrats in Minneapolis. And let their children be poorly educated. And they should be more unemployed. And pay more for their electricity and gasoline. And they should stay in their homes because of this virus thing. And Joe Biden has seen the light. And this time it’s going to be different.

        And you have removed yourself from women’s issues, Native American issues, Black issues, drug abuse issues, and children’s issue as you are none of those things.

        In the intersectional Olymics you will not be carrying the flag and don’t even have a pass to get into the village.

      • “I doubt Rubin is saying Blacks are stupid. Same with Smith.”

        Definitely not. As a black gay man, and a conservative to boot, Smith knows a thing or two about stereotypes and bigotry on all sides of the political scene, more than most. The discussion between Rubin and Smith delves into plantation politics, which I had referenced. It’s a wonderful in depth interview covering many issues. Josh should actually watch it instead of clamping down on the agency BS he wields like a chattering pinhead does.

        It’s blacks themselves who are increasingly seeing through Democratic party lies. How many more decades will it take before the Left awake with an epiphany; big cities they’ve controled for half a century are disaster’s, and getting ever worse. They always have a shiny object distracting from their reality. 60’s LSD trips are paying dividends forward I suppose.

    • They aren’t telling blacks that they should just fall in line and vote for white elites such as Trump and Pence and McConnell and Cotton and basically 95% of the Republican Politicians….and that they *shouldn’t* vote for the party which is comprised of a much higher percentage of non white elites.

      It’s funny, the widespread view among some political activists so well-represented here, that black people have no agency, and only vote they way that they do because that’s what leaders of the Democratic Party tell them to do.

  42. DATE ISOLATED increase % # TESTS
    8/26/2020 42,233 3,158 8.1 666,860
    8/27/2020 44,153 1,920 4.5 806,571
    8/28/2020 47,557 3,404 7.7 816,858
    8/29/2020 40,720 -6,837 -14.3 855,560
    8/30/2020 33,540 -7,180 -17.6 727,085
    8/31/2020 37,560 4,020 12 714,128
    9/1/2020 40,853 3,293 8.8 783,791
    9/2/2020 40,083 770 1.9 745,791
    9/3/2020 43,318 3,235 8 739,104
    9/4/2020 51,252 7,934 18.3 1,030,104
    9/5/2020 40,718 -10,534 -20.6 848,865
    40,718 is 4.8% of total tests.
    It looks like another tease from the virus. It also could be we finally have succeeded. I would ask MS Curry to add an XI because X no longer accepts additions.

    • DATE ISOLATED increase % # TESTS
      8/26/2020 42,233 3,158 8.1 666,860
      8/27/2020 44,153 1,920 4.5 806,571
      8/28/2020 47,557 3,404 7.7 816,858
      8/29/2020 40,720 -6,837 -14.3 855,560
      8/30/2020 33,540 -7,180 -17.6 727,085
      8/31/2020 37,560 4,020 12 714,128
      9/1/2020 40,853 3,293 8.8 783,791
      9/2/2020 40,083 770 1.9 745,791
      9/3/2020 43,318 3,235 8 739,104
      9/4/2020 51,252 7,934 18.3 1,030,104
      9/5/2020 40,718 -10,534 -20.6 848,865
      9/6/2020 29,847 -10,871 -26.7 806,722
      29,847 is 3.7% of total tests.
      We have finally figred out how to control the growth but now no one can see it. I guess I will have to hear about itm on the news.

    • DATE ISOLATED increase % # TESTS
      8/26/2020 42,233 3,158 8.1 666,860
      8/27/2020 44,153 1,920 4.5 806,571
      8/28/2020 47,557 3,404 7.7 816,858
      8/29/2020 40,720 -6,837 -14.3 855,560
      8/30/2020 33,540 -7,180 -17.6 727,085
      8/31/2020 37,560 4,020 12 714,128
      9/1/2020 40,853 3,293 8.8 783,791
      9/2/2020 40,083 770 1.9 745,791
      9/3/2020 43,318 3,235 8 739,104
      9/4/2020 51,252 7,934 18.3 1,030,104
      9/5/2020 40,718 -10,534 -20.6 848,865
      9/6/2020 29,847 -10,871 -26.7 806,722
      9/7/2020 25,149 -4,698 -15.7 605,508
      25,149 is 4.2% of total tests.
      Getting down there. Holiday today. WE will see tomorrow.

    • DATE ISOLATED increase % # TESTS
      8/26/2020 42,233 3,158 8.1 666,860
      8/27/2020 44,153 1,920 4.5 806,571
      8/28/2020 47,557 3,404 7.7 816,858
      8/29/2020 40,720 -6,837 -14.3 855,560
      8/30/2020 33,540 -7,180 -17.6 727,085
      8/31/2020 37,560 4,020 12 714,128
      9/1/2020 40,853 3,293 8.8 783,791
      9/2/2020 40,083 770 1.9 745,791
      9/3/2020 43,318 3,235 8 739,104
      9/4/2020 51,252 7,934 18.3 1,030,104
      9/5/2020 40,718 -10,534 -20.6 848,865
      9/6/2020 29,847 -10,871 -26.7 806,722
      9/7/2020 25,149 -4,698 -15.7 605,508
      9/8/2020 26,310 1,161 4.6 523,156
      26,310 is 5.0% of total tests. Tomorrow is the result of those positive removed on the 4th. The number of tests has dropped.
      MORE TESTS!!!

    • DATE ISOLATED increase % # TESTS
      8/26/2020 42,233 3,158 8.1 666,860
      8/27/2020 44,153 1,920 4.5 806,571
      8/28/2020 47,557 3,404 7.7 816,858
      8/29/2020 40,720 -6,837 -14.3 855,560
      8/30/2020 33,540 -7,180 -17.6 727,085
      8/31/2020 37,560 4,020 12 714,128
      9/1/2020 40,853 3,293 8.8 783,791
      9/2/2020 40,083 770 1.9 745,791
      9/3/2020 43,318 3,235 8 739,104
      9/4/2020 51,252 7,934 18.3 1,030,104
      9/5/2020 40,718 -10,534 -20.6 848,865
      9/6/2020 29,847 -10,871 -26.7 806,722
      9/7/2020 25,149 -4,698 -15.7 605,508
      9/8/2020 26,310 1,161 4.6 523,156
      9/9/2020 34,109 7,799 29.6 665,991
      34,109 is 5.1% of total tests.
      We did get bac in the 20,000’s. I thank you for what you did.
      The test numbers, thus the positive, are on their way back up.
      Ms. Curry Thank-you

      If any of you are still there, hit reply, type I am here, then post.
      If enough are there and do it maybe Ms Curry will add Covid-19 XI

  43. It won’t take a huge shift in black, hispanic, and female votes to Trump for him to win. The answer my friend, is blowin’ in the wind …

    • There’s an estimate by some sources that Trump could secure 15% of the black vote in the coming election, which would be near double his prior win of the black demographic. I think 20% is a possibility, there’s that much more of a gap that would prefer to remain anonymous for fear of cultural excommunication. Are the Left really that mean?

  44. The UN has solved the carbon crisis. Become a silicon-based life form by eating sand. I hope they intend to go first.

  45. I guess I can join in. This is such a boys club with not much to do other than lob conspiracy theories at each other. I find this thread a whole thing a lot of nonsense. I’m sure we all feel a sense of relief when we get it all out, or aim at someone in the thread that you think has expressed a stupid idea. But then, I did spend time scrolling and mulling. Time for me to get off and duck?

  46. Honestly, Dr Curry, I don’t know why you lower the bar on your blog?

  47. Sorry we are keeping you up, Theo. Glass of warm milk and a binky might help.

    Old senile sleepy joe is in big trouble. Not from snide little anonymous sources, but the words out of his own weak and mealy mouth:

    Theo won’t get it, but this is funny:”The Main Stream Media has dropped as low as Biden’s testosterone levels.”

    https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=usq3h_1599329549

    • You must live your in comment trivia. I’ve only been to site a few time, and name keeps cropping up. You should get a blog. Or maybe you have one? Theo

      • You should get a bigger binky.

      • Don

        Good to see you back. Have you any notion as to the real state of play between the two candidates?

        A couple of weeks aqo I had the impression Trump was floudering and despite being such a poor candidate Biden was comfortably on top mostly because he seems to have been kept away from the media.

        However I think things have edged back towards Trump and they are now fairly even.

        Your impression?

        tonyb

      • Hi Tony, a few weeks ago it was looking not good for The Donald. The worm has turned. Old sleepy senile joe is on his last legs. Virus is trending down, economy up and the riots are killing the Democrats.

    • Don

      Good to have you back. I trust Detroit treated you well. I haven’t watched a Tigers game yet and not sure if I’ll bother with the Lions this year. I’ve run out of paper sacks.

      • We are doing well in Detroit and Michigan, kid. Wisconsin, Ohio, Penn and even Minnesota. Going back on the road tomorrow. Have fun with the hateful little TDS critters that haunt Judith’s blog.

  48. Tonyb and others who have asked about the state of the American political parties would find interesting a book by Michael Lind published this year, The New Class War: Saving Democracy From The Managerial Elite.

    Lind is a fairly harsh critic of Donald Trump; he basically advocates a return to New Deal policies.

    However, both Trump supporters and honest Trump critics could learn a lot from the book as to what has happened to American politics. Basically, the two parties have switched their bases of support.

    The Dems used to be the party of working-class Americans. They have abandoned the working class for what Lind calls the “overclass,” the verbalist professionals who know how to use words to control and manipulate their fellow citizens.

    The Republicans had, of course, long been the party of the managerial and business class.

    So, the working class had nowhere to go.

    Then Trump came along: Trump bluntly and uncompromisingly stated his contempt for the long-dominant Republican elite — The Bushes, McCain, Romney, et al. — who seemed mainly to care about starting unnecessary wars (in which working-class boys did the dying) and getting labor that was as cheap as possible (a flood of immigrants does provide cheap labor!).

    And the working class decided that Trump, flawed as he was, was their best shot. At least he did not openly despise them.

    Lind makes no effort to sugar-coat Donald Trump: Lind clearly dislikes Trump. Lind is merely describing what happened and why.

    I disagree with Lind’s policy conclusions, but the story he tells he is absolutely convincing.

    Anyone who wants to know what has happened in the US in the last fifty years needs to read this book (i.e., Joshua should not read it).

    • UK- Weather Lass

      “Within the contemporary elite, there is this idea that if you set out the facts, everyone will agree,” Lind says. “And if you agree on the facts, then there is only one correct side. But in my agonist view of politics, people don’t disagree on facts, but about how to fit them with their values.”

      It is hard to argue with Lind and I do agree that in Europe the working classes have been largely neutered and put in their proverbial places by a chattering elite who pretend to know what they are doing using consensus as their cover.

      We have seen consensus before but a more appropriate word for its doctrine is propaganda.

      • “We have seen consensus before but a more appropriate word for its doctrine is propaganda.”

        Indeed. This is an age where opinion, wrapped in dogma, only needs chattering class consensus—often by virtue of alignment to a collectivist world view—to implicitly, or literally leverage opinion as fact in order to bend culture to their wont. So to make opinion appear as fact, and therefore culturally salable: homogenize the opinion with sculpted periodical messaging: use science, spice it with contrived peer review that can’t be replicated, where fuzzy becomes unassailable clarity (a survey published in Nature, 2016: more than 70% of researchers failed to reproduce another scientist’s experiments); throw in a few strategic lectures; wrap it all with a bow in media; a fact is born. This represents “opinion as fact” packaging methodology for chattering class pinheads. It gives the political Left, who has most of the media in their pocket, the cover to propagandize culture; to shut down dialogue using a quiver of opinions leveraged as facts to browbeat an electorate. The MSM chattering class back it up, amplify it. Propaganda. A lot of the climate change debate has evolved out of these tactical devices.

      • Tony –

        > When you look at the lengths…

        Lol. When I asked you for evidence to support your opinions stated as irrefutable fact, you suggested I read entire books!

        >… of your screeds…

        So now we have “delusions,” “pet theories,” and “screeds” from a closed-minded globalist.

        I don’t find your argument compelling. I don’t know that they’re wrong, but I have provided you with counter evidence, asked you to support your arguments with evidence, asked you to critique the evidence I’ve given you, and given you my counter arguments to your assertions, and your response is criticisms of my motivations, integrity and good faith coupled with incorrect assumptions about my views?

        I’ll leave you with a quite from that link I have you about Sandel:

        -snip-
        What Money Can’t Buy sealed Sandel’s status as perhaps the most formidable critic of free-market orthodoxy in the English-speaking world. But as an age of violently polarised, partisan and poisonous politics has taken hold, it is that early encounter with Reagan that has begun to play on his mind. “It taught me a lot about the importance of the ability to listen attentively,” he says, “which matters as much as the rigours of the argument. It taught me about mutual respect and inclusion in the public square.”
        -snip-

        Maybe the next time we interact we can both do a better job of reaching to that standard?

      • Tony –

        > my comment to you at 12.31 came over more tersely than I had intended.

        Not a problem. I don’t really care about “terseness” except to the extent that it stands in place for constructive dialog.

        > Your posts do take an awful lot of untangling

        No doubt.

      • Of course Tony is correct to embrace sovereignty as the primary issue surrounding Brexit.

        There isn’t a Leftist alive that cares about the separation of powers represented in the sovereignty of nations; which they see as an obstacle to global authoritarianism. The Left believes silence, illustrative of the risk posed to individual liberty, and freedom, represents double jeopardy; it can’t be risked after so much prior failure. They instead plow ahead in their single-minded monolithic group think Marxist vision. How possibly can the separation of powers, individual liberty and freedom be of global concern, they ask? Yet they know their deceit. And, just because we can’t articulate a detailed vision embracing important tenets provided in democracy, inclusive of liberty and freedom for the individual; why is that so relevant? They ask. But of course getting in the weeds hurts the globalist cause, surely; beyond their immediate wont of unicorn bareback riding, nothing can be quantified within the marxist cult of promises. But I’m sure there’s a peer reviewed paper on the futility of sovereignty.

        Josh talks a big game, demanding “evidence”. Yet can’t provide any evidence for how authoritarian global rule, enabled through his ilks globalist vision, can possibly protect individual liberty and freedom globally; because the Lefts vision is just whacky theory driving humanity to the cliffs edge; considerate of many failed endeavors of Marxism that killed hundreds of millions in the failed effort towards utopia.

        Josh is firmly entrenched within his cult. He can’t answer these questions.

        Josh, give us the quantifiable details for how your way will in fact work? Of course you can’t. The proverbial crystal ball illustrates the black swan of all black swan events. And Josh says oops, better rub that vision out and hide, ditch the ball. In the end; your bad, sorry for all the monumental dying [as you slink back into your pulpit].

    • dave

      Interesting comment

      “The Dems used to be the party of working-class Americans. They have abandoned the working class for what Lind calls the “overclass’

      I would say this is exactly the position with politics in the UK.

      The conservatives (tories) the ruling party secured a very large majority in the December election through appealing to working class voters. Those are the keenest to get Brexit done. The overclass are on the whole those fighting tooth and nail to remain in the EU.

      tonyb

      • Tony –

        > I would say this is exactly the position with politics in the UK.

        Minorities comprise a significant % of the Democratic Party.

        When Dave says that “… the working class decided that Trump, flawed as he was, was their best shot.” – in order to construct his simplistic analysis of the American political landscape – he oddly leaves out that minorities overwhelmingly oppose Trump. Weird that he apparently thinks those minorities don’t even exist, or for some other reason leaves them out of his equation. I wonder what explains that?

        Regardless, not to say that there isn’t a pattern whereby some voters of higher education and higher income have migrated from the Republican Party and towards the Democratic Party. And not to say that some working class whites haven’t migrated from the Democratic Party towards the Republican Party. But as in the UK, there is a strong cultural overlay that aligns with the shifts. We can see that with the voting in Brexit as well. I believe I have directed you before to analyses of the correlates with the voting in Brexit in various communities. It isn’t actually as strongly correlated with economics or unemployment so much as underlying cultural factors. Maybe you never read those analyses? Or perhaps you forgot about them? I don’t recall you ever offering a substantive response.

      • Joshua

        As I have written a large number of research and experience based posts about Brexit, have followed it for four years and been on the ‘winning’ side of the argument 4 times in elections, I guess I might be expected to know who voted for what and why.

        If you have got a link to the study I will read it, but that does not mean I will feel inclined to comment unless it is exceptionally interesting and at variance with my first hand knowledge, as I don’t want get dragged into a long and convoluted conversation

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        Sorry. I assumed since you mistakenly connected Dave’s flawed analysis to the dynamics in the UK, you hadn’t actually considered the issues in much detail.

      • Joshua

        I said

        ‘I would say this is exactly the position with politics in the UK.’

        That is to say what Dave described is the situation in the UK. I have no idea if it is the real position in the US.

        There used to be a joke about British politics that you could put a monkey in a red (labour) rosette up for election and a hardcore 30% would vote for it.m., I would say the equivalent for the Tory party is around 10% as we saw in the European elections in 2019 as tories voted tactically in favour of the Brexit party.. In a general election they are much more likely to revert to their old party-so probably 25% are ‘hardcore’ tories.

        There is a floating vote of around 20 to 30% which the third party-the lib dems- periodically mop up to some extent, but certainly there are at least 25% or so of the total who might be persuaded by arguments made during the campaign or decide not to vote at all.

        What sort of percentage of Americans are ‘floating’ voters as in a close race they can decide the result.

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        > That is to say what Dave described is the situation in the UK. I have no idea if it is the real position in the US.

        Well, I’d say that Dave didn’t describe the situation very accurately in either context.

        The point of those analyses is that attitudes about Muslims, immigration, etc. are better correlates with the Brexit vote than income – and income is generally the variable used to determine class.

        The same applies here to the changes in voting preferences across party affiliation – except here we should also add in attitudes about race.

        And then I have been neglectful in not mentioning the important correlates of age and gender, which also can be considered partially “explanatory” or “predictive” for recent changes in voting dynamics across party lines. And of course, religious identity is also an important consideration.

        I haven’t seen any breakdown in those variables with Brexit voting in the UK, which would be interesting to see – but I wouldn’t be surprised to see if there’s a pretty strong correlation there as well,

        > What sort of percentage of Americans are ‘floating’ voters as in a close race they can decide the result.

        I don’t know… although I would guess it prolly isn’t as big as 20%-30%. Among the Demz, there is a split in that many feel that they should tack towards that more independent block of voters and many others feel that they should focus on turning out the “base.” That split is part of the reason why the nominating process for Demz tends to produce candidates who try to get through without much of any strong policy orientation. They seem to think that the only way they can bridge the gap is by being as mediocre as possible – although Biden’s platform is moving somewhat from the middle to the left, largely because of the effect that Bernie had in consolidating the more left-leaning cohort.

        The Pubz, for better or worse from their perspective, seem to have been moving more unreservedly towards a “base” strategy. They’ve basically eliminated any representatives who don’t toe the more extreme party line. Prolly Romney may be the only one left who doesn’t fit with that strategy and he can only survive doing so because of a built in constituency of Mormons. It will be interesting to see whether, if Trump loses (which I think prolly isn’t going to happen), they continue to move towards the base-only orientation or begin to move back more towards appealing to more moderate voters. If Trump wins, it seems pretty clear that they will go even further with the base-only strategy and that is what I’m most concerned about. As much as I might disagree with a Romney or a Bush or a McCain (not the least because I agree with Dave in the sense that they represent a kind of “elitism.”) on many policy matters, I think that wing of what used to be the Republican Party has less downside risk of fomenting authoritarianism and xenophobia and nativism and degrading democratic norms. As much as the problems of our two-party system result in a kind of governmental stagnation, I’m actually for the first time in my life concerned that the extremism of a 2nd Trump term, and that the resulting atomization of our societal cohesion, will turn loose some very dark forces in this country. I hope that if he wins, those concerns of mine don’t play out. I generally tend towards thinking that people are generally overly-alarmist about these types of concerns (as, say, the concerns about “tyranny” under Obama), but for the first time ever I actually think that the mitigating and dampening influences of our institutional norms (even as they lead to mediocrity) may be overmatched by a kind of extremism which is exacerbated by the new social media environment.

      • OK – one more comment on this and then I need to get something constructive done: Another aspect I was remiss in not addressing is that it isn’t only the voters that’s important to understand, but also the non-voters.

        Here’s a timely article by Greenwald. I disagree with some of it, but he does bring some important evidence to the table:

        https://theintercept.com/2020/04/09/nonvoters-are-not-privileged-they-are-largely-lower-income-non-white-and-dissatisfied-with-the-two-parties/

      • tony –

        Ok, I lied – I did a quick Google to see if there’s newer stuff out there and came across a couple of interesting links that discuss “working class” as a correlate for Brexit votes and other correlates as well.

        Of course, if you any solid analyses – IOW, something beyond your anecdotal musings that don’t in the least control for your biases as an outlier as we can see with Dave’s analysis – I’d love to see it.

        -snip-
        We find that voting Leave is associated with older age, white ethnicity, low educational attainment, infrequent use of smartphones and the internet, receiving benefits, adverse health and low life satisfaction.
        -snip-

        https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0176268018301320

        -snip-
        Looking at class first, we find the Leave vote to be associated with middle class identification and the more neutral ‘no class’ identification. But we find no evidence of a link with working class identification.
        -snip-

        https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/brexit-and-the-squeezed-middle/

      • Joshua

        The overwhelming reason to vote Brexit was to regain sovereignty and our independence and to wrest control back from the elites, who had ignored the demands for a vote for 30 years as they prospered so much from it, such as with taking political jobs in Brussels. Many a failed British politician ended up there on very good salaries. It was seen by many of the public as a gravy train. ., sorry to disappoint you but immigration was some way down the list.

        Increasingly Brussels has taken power to the centre. How would you like it if Half your laws were made in Mexico, your laws were enforced by judges from Peru, Chile and Venezuela, trade deals were put together to suit Bolivia and Brazil, the majority of your fishing rights were ceded to Argentina and all of those in the gang were entitled to freely migrate to America and access social benefits? .

        As for age, the split came around the age of 45. Generally below that people voted to stay and above that to leave. Support was greatest by far in the 18 to 25 grouping, In other words those with up to 40 years of road testing the EU jalopy knew from practical experience that it didn’t suit them. Those who barely knew anything about it as an adult except they could freely cross borders were most in favour.

        Much is made that the better educated voted to remain but this is a false analogy as University access has expanded many fold since 1976 and no doubt many of those voting brexit would have got a University degree if the opportunities had been available when they were younger .

        Don’t get me wrong, there were some good things about the EU and I hope we have a close cooperation but it sees itself as an Empire and we are the colonies (Macron and Verhoestadt both said this)

        It also wanted to accrue more powers such as creating an army, putting on pressure to join the Euro . I voted in 1976 to remain in the EEC which was a trading block. Since then the EU has drifted a long way.

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        Sorry, but I’m more interested in data and empirical analysis (in particular with respect to correlations between class and Brexit) than your personal construction of the dynamics based on anecdote.

        As we see with Dave, where he left race completely out of the picture when discussing the impact of class on changed in party affiliation (as if minorities in the working class are invisible or simply don’t exist) – anecdote and personal opinion have their place but also have some important shortcomings.

        From what I’ve seen, the most predictive correlates w/r/t changes in party affiliation here AND Brexit in the UK, are attitudes about race and immigration, and Muslims, and to some degree views on economic policy – and not income or class per se as you and Dave seemed to think were the case in the UK and here respectively.

        Any evidence you could provide would be appreciated.

      • Josh**

        I tried to post this over an hour ago before your latest missive arrived but It ‘disappeared.’

        No I am not going to provide endless amounts of proof as no matter what anyone says, when you have a theory you are determined to find evidence to prove it and will just ignore those who know much better than you about a situation, such as Brexit. I was there, you weren’t, do stop believing everything was immigration driven and instead understand that such things as sovereignty and independence still matter.

        Here is the post

        “Josh**

        I don’t intend to get into a long convoluted discussion. The reasons for leaving are as stated , the age groups in favour or against are as I quoted.

        I would remind you the Tories got an unexpected majority in 2015 by promising to hold a referendum on our membership.

        The vote to leave in 2016 was clear, despite everything being thrown at the demand by the establishment that that we should remain, including Obama being wheeled out and various sages of industry and Banking telling us we were idiots and we would be bankrupted

        . It was a very brave decision by the British public to decide to upend the status quo. In 2017 we voted again in the GE to implement Brexit. In 2019 in the European elections, which should never have taken place if the elite had got on with it, from a standing start the newly formed Brexit party won.

        When Boris at last managed to hold another general Election in December 2019 in order to push Brexit through, he got an astonishing majority of 80 seasts..

        Leave voters are not all old, idiotic, half educated white men who have never held a smartphone and can’t spell ‘internet’. Do give us a bit more credit.

        These are people who have run businesses, created jobs, bought houses, travelled widely, educated their children, got through various recessions, but wanted to regain their sovereignty and independence despite the elite doing their best to stop them and who tried to reverse the decision to leave they were horrified by back in 2016

        . Now its time for Dinner. Good evening Josh**

        tonyb

      • Joshua

        I have tried three times over the last two hours to send a reply to what was then your latest message. It may be the posts will reappear but this happens quite frequently to me. I am sending this from another machine.

        You seem convinced brexit was a immigration driven decision and no matter how much I tell you it was about sovereignty you will continue to believe whatever suits your beliefs so I will leave you to foster your delusions.

        Tonyb

      • Hi Tony, used to be that your posts would automatically go to spam (for some unknown reason). Now they automatically go to the moderation filter. No idea.

      • Tony –

        The moderation filter is capricious.

        I’ll wait to see if your comments in moderation have some links to some interesting empirical evidence to back your assertions – as I would be interested in seeing some.

        I’ve given you access to evidence upon which my “delusions” are based – and I note that as of yet you haven’t commented in response to that evidence (hopefully I’ll see you do so when the comments get released from comment prison). That is my recollection of what happened previously as well, when I provided you with a lot more, much more detailed evidence that supports a conclusion that it was a combination of cultural factors and not economics (or unemployment) or “sovereignty” that best explains the Leave vote. Although I don’t doubt that’s what motivated your vote., I have seen far too often in these threads where people who are outliers think they can project from their own emotional and ideological state to reason about the general public to just take your word for it.

        Of course, I think there were likely some combination of factors involved. I’m sure the reality is multi-factorial. But from what I’ve seen so far, your explanation is too simplistic and too conveniently aligned with your ideological predisposition to carry much weight in my estimation.

        If in the moderated comments you don’t offer any responses to the material I linked, then please feel free to do so at any point. It seems pretty credible to me, but I wouldn’t want to be laboring under a misunderstanding because of flaws in that material.

      • Tony –

        A quick google showed me that an apology is in order. It was Andy that I provided some links to previously, and not you. Someone from the UK with a four-letter name ending in a “y” but not you for sure.

        Here are some of the links:

        http://www.perc.org.uk/project_posts/thoughts-on-the-sociology-of-brexit/

        https://flipchartfairytales.wordpress.com/2016/06/28/looking-behind-the-brexit-anger/

      • And here:

        http://www.resolutionfoundation.org/media/blog/the-referendum-living-standards-and-inequality/

        http://www.fabians.org.uk/brexit-voters-not-the-left-behind/

        There were more as well, but a quick Google didn’t turn them up and I’ve already spent way too much time on this.

      • Joshua

        It’s getting late so I will look at the links tomorrow although I don’t promise I will comment on them. I am not going to get into a long involved discussion with you. The facts are as they are on brexit and if you have made up your mind on some pet theory there is no way that you will ever change your mind

        Yes the filter is a nuisance, as I said before I have in the past composed some long replies to you and they go missing, then you accuse me of not engaging.

        I don’t always keep a copy or have an opportunity to repost things so what with having to sign on each time then perhaps one in two of my comments disappearing its often more hassle than its worth

        Tonyb

      • Tony –

        > The facts are as they are on brexit and if you have made up your mind on some pet theory…

        Well, as of yet you haven’t presented any facts, only vague assertions and unsupported opinions. But hopefully some facts from you will be forthcoming. Meanwhile, I have presented to you facts (via links) which support my “delusions” and “pet theories, ” so let me know if you have amy counter-arguments to explain why that material is faulty.

      • Joshua wrote:
        >When Dave says that “… the working class decided that Trump, flawed as he was, was their best shot.” – in order to construct his simplistic analysis of the American political landscape – he oddly leaves out that minorities overwhelmingly oppose Trump. Weird that he apparently thinks those minorities don’t even exist, or for some other reason leaves them out of his equation. I wonder what explains that?

        Mainly that I was explaining what Michael Lind said in his book

        You are always looking for ulterior motives, aren’t you, Joshua?

        Of course, it is also true that minorities are, well, a minority of the working class numerically. Partly because they are smaller in numbers total (a “minority”) but also because a decent number of minorities are not working class — either middle-class or not in the work force.

        if you prefer to say the *white* working class realigned in Trump’s direction, that too would be true.

        Trump did do better than Romney among both blacks and Hispanics, though, not surprisingly since Willard is not exactly a multicultural kind of guy!

      • Dave –

        > You are always looking for ulterior motives, aren’t you, Joshua?

        Wrong once again.

        I’m not questioning your motives. I assume that like me, prolly your motives are primarily some combo of seeking to understand and seeking to confirm your views.

        I was seeking to understand what explain why someone would discuss “the” working class when he was actually only referring to the white working class. Which, interestingly, is a shrinking demographic:

        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/americas-white-working-class-is-the-smallest-its-ever-been/

      • Joshua wrote:
        > since you mistakenly connected Dave’s flawed analysis

        It’s not my analysis, it is the analysis of Michael Lind, who is very hostile to Trump but who is a serious academic. And many other serious analysts share Lind’s view, even if they are hostile to Trump, and there is a lot of data to back up that view.

        For example, Lind cites Nate Silver’s Nov. 22, 2016, essay “Education, Not Income, Predicted Who Would Vote For Trump,” still available online. As Silver says of some counties Hilary took:
        >Are these so-called “white working-class” counties? You could argue for it: They’re mostly white, and they have average or below-average incomes. But, of course, “class” is a slippery term, and definitions vary. It is worth noting that many of the counties on the list are home to major colleges or universities, although there are some exceptions.

        Silver shows that the pattern holds among non-whites as well as whites.

        Silver suggests the key point I am making:
        >Education levels may be a proxy for cultural hegemony. Academia, the news media and the arts and entertainment sectors are increasingly dominated by people with a liberal, multicultural worldview, and jobs in these sectors also almost always require college degrees. Trump’s campaign may have represented a backlash against these cultural elites.

        That is why I keep hammering away on the parasitic verbalist oveclass. Class conflict in America today is driven less by income than by occupation and educational level.

        But the class war is very real.

        Joshua basically admits what is happening:
        >Regardless, not to say that there isn’t a pattern whereby some voters of higher education and higher income have migrated from the Republican Party and towards the Democratic Party. And not to say that some working class whites haven’t migrated from the Democratic Party towards the Republican Party. But as in the UK, there is a strong cultural overlay that aligns with the shifts.

        Yes, as analysts going back to Karl Marx have recognized, there is always a cultural component to social classes. In the current case, it is largely a matter of years of education.

        Over-schooled and under-educated guys like Joshua simply cannot help expressing their contempt for lots of their fellow Americans (“basket of deplorables”). And the working-class “deplorables” do not like it.

        I doubt that our friend Joshua has any actual productive skills: can Joshua construct a high-rise, repair a tractor, fly an airplane, or design an integrated circuit? Most members of the parasitic verbalist overclass (the “chattering elite ” as “UK- Weather Lass” phrased it) can do nothing productive of that sort at all. And, understandably, working-class people who actually can build a high-rise or repair a tractor are getting pretty sick of the condescension of members of the chattering elite such as our friend Joshua.

        As Joshua says, racial minorities tend to lean Democratic, though Trump has done better with them than Romney has, and the polls show Trump may do still better in 2020.

        Will an improvement among racial minorities and the realignment of the working class be enough to put Trump over the top in 2020 again?

        No one knows, of course, but I do note that the Trump supporters here seem pretty confident and our friend Joshua is very defensive about the realignment that is happening.

        So, if I had to bet, I would give a slight, very slight, edge to Trump. The betting odds give a very slight edge to Biden. Realistically, right now it is a toss-up.

      • Joshua

        I have read your various links, thank you

        The British and European political and business elite and apparently you as well, fundamentally misunderstood what Brexit was about, which is why they were so shocked at the result.

        You are way over thinking this why do you (and most of the authors of the links/articles) find the concept of regaining sovereignty and independence so difficult to grasp as a huge motivating factor ? Why do you then need to invent other narratives that include Muslims?

        As I said previously, how would you like it if your laws and judgements were being made in another country? That you were prevented from trading with other countries unless a third party had negotiated a general deal that might not even benefit you? That 500 million people from 27 other countries (few of them muslims) could come and settle in your country without restriction and take benefits. The UK is a big pull as our economy is as large as the total size of the 20 smallest EU economies, many of whom are economically backward

        Can I select a few examples from the very first article you cite;

        “This isn’t to discredit what the EU does in terms of redistribution, but pointing to handouts is a psychologically and politically naïve basis on which to justify remaining in the EU.”

        Handouts! Joshua, we pay a “membership” fee of some £12 Billion a year. In a typical year we might get back some £5 Billion to spend on EU designated projects. In other words they are giving us back less than half of our own money! To make matters worse, any EU project has to be match funded by the UK govt, so in other words in order to get back half the money we have given the EU, we have to then put up the remaining half on a project we might not even want!

        In addition the ‘single market’ set up in 1992 is nothing of the sort and was constructed by Brussels to favour mostly manufacturing and farming, not the services we specialise in . The result is that we have an annual trade deficit with the EU of some £90 billion a year. So in todays terms, over the course of our 40 year membership you can work out how much money this endeavour has cost us., I think your economy is 8 times larger so you can scale up these amounts accordingly.

        The good people of Britain are intelligent enough to realise that paying a huge membership fee in order to economically sabotage ourselves is a mad way to proceed. The ruling classes in politics and business thought we were profoundly ignorant in voting as we did , as encapsulated in this line from one article

        “It is now being reported that many Leave voters are aghast at what they’ve done, as if they never really intended for their actions to yield results.”

        What errant and arrogant nonsense. It has taken five elections to force the ruling classes to do what we asked them to do in June 2016. The last election in December 2019 to demand they give us Brexit gave Boris a historically huge landslide of a 80 seat majority . Does this sound like a population that said to itself ‘oh we’ve been so stupid, how could we have ignored the advice of our betters?.’

        As I say Joshua you are way over thinking this and are constructing some sort of narrative in your own mind to justify the conclusion you have come to. Put yourself in our position and ask what you would have voted? Your laws being made in Bolivia and enacted by a judge from Venezuela? I think not.

        If you really want to understand the political social and economic landscape of the UK and Europe I would suggest you read these books; “Berlin rules’ describing how the EU was set up to favour Germany and France, written by Paul Lever a Former UK ambassador to Berlin.

        “The Great Brexit Betrayal” by Rod Liddle, undoubtedly a polemic but entertaining and packed full of real world statistics as to who voted for and against and their reasons. “The road to somewhere’ subtitled ‘the populist revolt and the future of politics by David Goodhart. “The strange death of Europe’ by Douglas Murray which deals with identity and how the ruling elite appear to be trying to remake Europe in a different image that discards our history .

        Finally ‘Adults in the room’ by Yanis Varoufakis former Greek foreign minister subtitled ‘My battle with Europe’s deep establishment’ which exposes the disgraceful and cynical machinations at the heart of the EU, which was quite prepared to bankrupt Greece and its peoples in pursuit of the ‘project.’

        Joshua, I have already said I have no intention of carrying on a long convoluted discussion with you, as clearly you have your own beliefs and no matter what anyone might say you will cleave to those beliefs. I would suggest you are far more ideologically motivated than I am. I am a very boring centrist who hates the extremes at either end. Do read what I have written in this thread, please don’t overthink these things and do read those books if you can get them. Sorry, but no more discussion on this subject as I have other things to do and your mind has been closed ever since you decided Brexit was about things it wasn’t. With my best wishes

        Tonyb

      • “I am a very boring centrist who hates the extremes at either end.”

        Not a position supported by your opinions here.

      • VTG

        If you were standing to the left of Marx or to the right of Genghis Khan then I am sure you would not see me as a centrist.

        If you were however standing in the middle of these extreme ideologies then you would find me right next to you.

        tonyb

      • Tony,

        If you espouse views clearly far to one side of centre, it matters not one jot how vehemently you declare them to be in the centre.

      • Tony –

        Thanks for the response.

        But as VTG alludes to, and as we see with our discussion of Brexit, you do seem to think that reality waits around for you to provide it instruction on how to get organized.

        I await either some evidence to support your views or some analytical critique of the evidence I’ve linked to. Your opinions are interesting and personal observations are important, but FWIW I find opinions more persuasive when they’re supported by evidence and you haven’t provided any.

      • Joshua

        There are many hundreds of references in the books I cited and the truth of what I say can be seen in the 5 brexit supporting votes over 4 years, who wanted their 2016 instructions to be carried out.

        tonyb

      • Tony,

        it’s great that you understand the thoughts of everyone who has voted in every election in the UK for the past four years. Impressive stuff. I guess having such certainty on others’ opinions is what being a “boring centrist” does for you.

      • Tony –

        OK. I’ll get right on digging up that book by “monkeymfc” to use as a reference.

        In the meantime if you could link to any kind of carefully research analysis, I’d appreciate it. Any kind at all.

        Or if you could provide some insight as to analytical errors in the material I linked…

      • Tony –

        I’m curious how you explain this polling: bias by the pollsters, methodological mistakes, social-desirability bias that leads people to lie to pollsters?

        https://www.businessinsider.com/brexit-poll-most-british-people-want-to-rejoin-eu-2020-6

      • Joshua

        You do realise we are actually OUT of the EU?

        The EOS was originally set up by the European Union to ascertain EU members views. It is mostly funded by the EU with for example a £5 million grant just this year for one of its programmes.

        The only poll that matters is the actual election in December 2020 in which Boris got an overwhelming majority for Brexit, not some survey by a EU oriented organisation desperate to show how much people still love them.

        I have no idea why you have such a high opinion of the EU, why you won’t believe the prime motivation of Brexiteers was to retrieve sovereignty and independence , nor why you won’t tell me if you would want to be part of an organisation that wrote laws elsewhere in the Americas, enforced them by judges from third countries and slanted trade in their favour.

        Guess you are a globalist who approves of Open borders? No more Joshua, you are like a fisherman trying to reel in its prey. As I said yesterday I am not interested in continuing what will be an increasingly convoluted this discussion as you have no interest in accepting anything other than your existing view where you seem to believe the reasons for Brexit are much deeper and darker than I have stated.

        (what sort of reply was that to Weather lass? )

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        > You do realise we are actually OUT of the EU?

        Yes, I do realize that.

        > The EOS was originally set up by the European Union to ascertain EU members views. It is mostly funded by the EU with for example a £5 million grant just this year for one of its programmes.

        So are you saying that the poll is inaccurate due to the bias of the pollsters involved? Do you have any direct evidence of their bias, or are you only reverse engineering from their affiliations? Do you have polls conducted from sources you think less biased that show different results?

        > The only poll that matters is the actual election in December 2020 in which Boris got an overwhelming majority for Brexit, not some survey by a EU oriented organisation desperate to show how much people still love them.

        Are you saying that there is no explanation for the election results other than the pubilc’s view on Brexit, and that the decisions voters were making didn’t involve other issues – and thus the poll couldn’t possibly be consistent with views on Brexit being associated with views on issues such as immigration (btw, IIRC, one of the strongest correlates was views on capital punishment)?

        > I have no idea why you have such a high opinion of the EU,

        I don’t know why you think I have such a high opinion of the EU. I haven’t said anything about my opinion on the EU. You should be careful here because you’re wandering into Dave territory, where you wrongly make assumptions about me and about my views simply because I don’t find your evidence-free arguments terribly compelling (for example, with Dave – I worked for over a decade in construction when I got out of high school so while I wouldn’t say I know how to build a high rise building I certainly know how to build a three-story building).

        > …why you won’t believe the prime motivation of Brexiteers was to retrieve sovereignty and independence ,

        Tony – I’m presenting the evidence that I see. “Motivation” is a complicated assessment and it’s not always exactly what people describe. I certainly don’t think I”m in a position to judge the “motivation” of tens of millions of people and I certainly believe that the “sovereignty” issue is paramount to you…but sometimes for a lot of people those kinds of “motivations,” as you say it, can be quite malleable. For example, in the US Republicans widely felt that an individual insurance mandate was an issue of “personal responsibility” until it became a key indication of “tyranny” when Obama started talking about it. So I think that the interplay of “tribes” and “motivations” on issues such as the EU and “sovereignty” can be a very complicated mix and isn’t want that can be easily distilled.

        I don’t doubt that “sovereignty” is an operative issue, to some degree, for some number of UK citizens, but that doesn’t mean that I think you should just dismiss study of the issue. At any rate, we’re kind of switching topics because you originally agreed with Dave that the issue is primarily seen as an outcome of the “working class” rebelling against the elites – and now you seem to be switching to it primarily being an issue of sovereignty and while I”m sure they are related they aren’t exactly the same thing.

        So my question for you is, if the issue is primarily one of “sovereignty” for most people in the UK, then how do you explain all those other correlates seen in public polling? Do you think that the correlates really don’t exist because of the bias of the pollsters? Do you have some logic whereby even if you think the correlates do exist, the issue of sovereignty is paramount? Do you have any polling to show that views on “sovereignty” are more predictive of views on Brexit than views on immigration, or Muslims, etc.?

        > nor why you won’t tell me if you would want to be part of an organisation that wrote laws elsewhere in the Americas, enforced them by judges from third countries and slanted trade in their favour.

        The situations aren’t even remotely analogous – so I don’t really see any point in the comparison. But even while I think it’s rather a useless question, I don’t want to appear to be ducking the question (I don’t like it when people don’t answer my questions, if you get my drift), so I’ll say I generally care more about laws themselves and the outcomes of those laws than about who makes those laws. Not to dismiss any importance for who makes the laws, but in order of priority it isn’t an overwhelmingly important determinant for me. For example, I do think that w/r/t many important matters, all nations should work to agree to and then follow international laws. I think we’d have fewer wars in such a fashion. But that doesn’t mean that I think that the process of developing and following international laws is unproblematic from a national-sovereignty standpoint. Yah, I think the world is complicated and I don’t particularly look for simplistic solutions.

        > Guess you are a globalist who approves of Open borders?

        I’m not sure what “globalist” means, and I get that you are basically holding it over me as a kind of epithet – but I have mixed feelings about “open borders.” I think that no restrictions at borders would be problematic, but I also think that restricting flow too much across borders is highly problematic at a number of levels, and often has negative ramifications for the domestic populous, and I also think that there are compelling moral issues to saying that people who are fleeing economic or other forms of oppression have no right to seek a better life. Don’t forget, I”m Jewish and a border restriction policy in this country and others had devastating impact on Jews. And that is hardly a unique circumstance in that regard. And I also think that ‘globalization,” while it has had seriously negative ramifications, particularly within some domestic contexts, has been largely responsible for less war, less death from starvation, a global raising of living standards, etc. – ala Steven Pinker. So, no – to the extent that I understand the term I am not a “globalist,” but that doesn’t mean that I think these are even remotely uncomplicated issues.

        > No more Joshua, you are like a fisherman trying to reel in its prey. As I said yesterday I am not interested in continuing what will be an increasingly convoluted this discussion as you have no interest in accepting anything other than your existing view where you seem to believe the reasons for Brexit are much deeper and darker than I have stated.

        Well, Tony, you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I was actually interested in engaging you in a discussion of the topic so that I might learn something. But apparently you don’t believe that was the case. And instead, it seems to me that what I got in return were arguments by assertion, opinions presented as supported when no evidence was offered, and now inaccurate characterizations of my opinion as well as assertions that I’m not really interested in discussion and that instead I’m just closed-minded, along with plausibly deniable epithets.

        Ok. No big deal. It’s life in the blogosphere. The world will carry on.

        > (what sort of reply was that to Weather lass? )

        I get a little bored it when people whine about being “censored” because a free market company chooses to exercise control over how it supplies services to its customers when they violate their terms of service, when no one is forcing the customers to want to use the service in the first place, and when it isn’t a matter of the government exercising control over their freedom of speech (which is what I consider to be censorship). I feel that doing so wrongly exploits the important issue of freedom of speech for the sake of enabling people to feel justified in their sense of victimhood. Everyone wants to be a victim, Tony – because apparently it gives them an elevated sense of the meaning of life. That isn’t to say that I don’t think that there are some important discussion to be had about tolerance of speech – but again, I don’t think that such an issue should be exploited for partisan purposes in cynical ways.

      • Joshua

        When you look at the lengths of your screeds you shouldn’t be surprised that I don’t want to get involved as it all gets so convoluted, then you bury questions within it and claim bad faith when I don’t dig them out and respond to each one.

        I still remember a couple of weeks ago when I thought you would be interested in a snippet from Lockdown sceptics and I never heard the last of it.

        I will reply to only one point as it demonstrates how far off you are in your continual dissection of the British public

        “IIRC, one of the strongest correlates was views on capital punishment)?”

        There is no debate at all on Capital Punishment. No one has suggested bringing it back. No one is interested except perhaps a tiny fringe on the far far right. It is a non issue, let alone one on any politicians agenda as a vote winner. It is not a correlate at all.

        tonyb

      • Some people certainly have suggested bringing back capital punishment.

        The current Home Secretary, just for instance.

        “I do actually think when we have a criminal justice system that continuously fails in this country and where we have seen murderers, rapists and people who have committed the most abhorrent crimes in society, go into prison and then are released from prison to go out into the community to then re-offend and do the types of crime they have committed again and again.

        “I think that’s appalling. And actually on that basis alone I would actually support the reintroduction of capital punishment to serve as a deterrent.”

        She is not alone. He views are commonly supported by other Tory MPs.

        https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/almost-third-tory-mps-support-14721861.amp

        A majority of Tory members support the death penalty.

        https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/most-conservatives-support-death-penalty-poll-reveals-11194549

        They probably think themselves boring centrists.

      • Joshua

        my comment to you at 12.31 came over more tersely than I had intended. Your posts do take an awful lot of untangling and sometimes I don’t feel inclined to do that and other times I do and the reply to you goes missing and other times you want more and accuse me of bad faith when I am not inclined to spend yet more time on composing one..

        I have seen so many reports from those shocked by the leave vote that I get fed up when they are quoted, because they invariably miss the simple point I keep making.

        Obviously there were as variety of reasons but after 40 years of being pushed around by an increasingly authoritarian EU bureaucracy (see Greece. Poland and Hungary) I Guess the British people just decided it was time for us to take back control.

        I do resent being told by the bureaucrat in chief (see the quote from Weather lass) how they ensnare countries and get them to vote in certain ways by subterfuge which can’t be reversed. France and Ireland both had referendums on more integration and voted no and wer told to go away and vote again.

        In the Rod liddle book I quoted earlier there are some good Sats from the lSE. I will try and dig them out

        tonyb

      • tonyb,

        You asked Joshua:
        >”You are way over thinking this why do you (and most of the authors of the links/articles) find the concept of regaining sovereignty and independence so difficult to grasp as a huge motivating factor ? Why do you then need to invent other narratives that include Muslims?”

        One of the tricks of members of the parasitic verbalist elite, guys like Joshua, is to deny that their opponents can possibly have the motives they proclaim.

        For example, I have noted for decades that, for a very long time, elitist opponents of Christianity have claimed that Christians are not really concerned with attaining eternal life — Christians must have some other motive: oppressing other groups, showing their solidarity with their social group, propping up the existing social order — anything except actually seeking eternal life.

        I’m an atheist, but I am quite sure that many Christians really want eternal life — not a hard desire to understand!

        You see this with our friend Joshua who bizarrely claims that Trump “leverage[s] hate,” when Trump is probably the most friendly, people-oriented President we have had since at least Truman.

        Or when Josh says:
        >” I’m actually for the first time in my life concerned that the extremism of a 2nd Trump term, and that the resulting atomization of our societal cohesion, will turn loose some very dark forces in this country.”

        Josh is quite unable to see that our society has been atomized by Josh and his friends by their contempt for the productive members of society — the working class who grow their food, build the structures they work and live in, keep the power and water coming to their homes, etc.

        Even though this contempt is horrifically on display in these comments, as when James Cross derides the working class as “suckers and losers.”

        The contemporary ruling elite in the West hate their fellow citizens who physically make the life of the elite possible.

        And members of the parasitic verbalist overclass, such as Joshua and James Cross, are so blind to their own hate and their own dependence on the people they hate that they project their own hate onto the people who make their lives physically possible.

        As John Gardner said:
        >“An excellent plumber is infinitely more admirable than an incompetent philosopher. The society which scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity, and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because it is an exalted activity, will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water.”

        The contempt our verbalist elite has for working class people like plumbers has produced a crisis that is not going to end well.

        Joshua and James Cross know not what they do.

    • This so-called “working class” really doesn’t exist anymore. It has mostly become a euphemism for lower class and under educated whites.

      It use to represent union and manufacturing workers. But the unions have been systematically taken apart since Reagan and right-wing control of the courts. This occurring with big demographic changes and economic changes. Textile mills in the South gone. Steel and auto assembly shipped off the Mexico.

      The new “working class” mostly don’t even work in manufacturing or live in the cities. They are scattered all over, many living off the government dole in one way or another, others work at jobs that don’t pay enough to support a family. Many are in rural America – the areas plagued by suicides, meth and opioid addiction.

      Somebody should address their plight but they consistently vote for Republicans. They are the suckers and losers who think Trump of all people is going to give them back something they think was taken from them.

      • Keep in mind that the percentage of the American electorate who switched from voting for one party to voting for the other is a relatively small slice of the overall American electorate. People talk about it as if there’s been some massive movement. There hasn’t – maybe it’s something like 5% in either direction?

        To the extent that there has been movement it is much more heavily associated with racial or other correlates than it is by “class” correlates.

        Attitudes about immigration, and about Muslims, and tona lesser extent about economic policy, are the strongest correlates, not “class.”

        Again, not many “working class” blacks have changed their party affiliation.

      • Exactly. Note “working class” in quotes.

      • By the way, a plurality of those who switched party with their votes didn’t switch from pub to dem or dem to pub in their affiliation, switched to identifying as independents.

        Trump got close to the same % of the black vote as other recent Republican candidates prior to Obama running, and got a lower % of the vote from Hispanics, Hispanic non-whites, Asian-Americans, etc.

        Trump told us he’d get 95% of the black vote on 2020, but then again, he also said that Mexico would pay for the wall, that [he] alone could fix the “American carnage,” that NoKo s going to de-nuclearize, etc.

      • “They are the suckers and losers who think Trump of all people is going to give them back something they think was taken from them.”

        That’s some good marketing we got here. I can see they’ll vote for Biden now. Who did not protect their jobs from being exported but is cozy with China. The Democrat Party is best illustrated by Hillary Clinton. Wall Street. They share that with the Republicans. Though the Republicans are rethinking that, in part to pick up the working class. Like fossil fuel workers and miners.

        Trump wants people to go back work. Biden doesn’t know what he wants but, Science! Unless that doesn’t poll well.

        Your unions did a good job with K-12 education, and except for Trump, would have educated Black children. But Trump ruined all your work, even before he was President.

      • Ragnaar,

        They won’t vote for Biden. They’re suckers and losers.

      • Ragnaar,

        You quote James Cross as saying:
        > “They are the suckers and losers who think Trump of all people is going to give them back something they think was taken from them.”

        Our friends in the parasitic verbalist overclass really do not get it, do they?? They really cannot understand that the productive people in America (the “working class”) are people who are just not going to put up with this sort of hatred and condescension!!

        That supposedly educated people cannot see what they are doing… well, it is amazing how ideology can so blind people.

        Or maybe it is not ideology. Maybe it is just insecurity and hatred towards people who have more productive and meaningful lives than they do.

        All the best,

        Dave

      • Matthew R Marler

        Joshua: Keep in mind that the percentage of the American electorate who switched from voting for one party to voting for the other is a relatively small slice of the overall American electorate.

        It’s enough to change which party has the majority in the Senate and House, and which presidential candidate wins the election.

      • “But the unions have been systematically taken apart since Reagan and right-wing control of the courts.“

        In Wisconsin all it took was giving the workers a choice of whether they wanted to pay dues or not. Since many felt the dues were being used to promote politics they disagreed with, they opted out.

      • James

        unions taken apart since Reagan

        Poor Reagan, 40 years after his election the haters are still blaming him for everything.

        Union membership as a % of workforce peaked in 1954 at 35%, and started down, a full 27 years before Reagan took office. Membership in the private sector is now down to 6.2%, lower than the public sector.

        In 1944, there were 16 million manufacturing jobs, about 40% of a total 40 million jobs. By 1979, an additional 48 million jobs had been added. Of those new jobs, only 3 million were in manufacturing. Union membership was concentrated in the manufacturing sector. As that sector dwindled, so did union membership. There are several reasons for the decline of unions, just like there are several reasons for the increase in income inequality. But instead of spending time understanding all those factors, it’s always more fun and simplistic to pick on The Gipper. Same goes for de institutionalization of the mentally ill. The movement began in the mid 50s, and JFK, LBJ and Carter took legislative initiatives, but Reagan is still catching heat for the budget decision to place the Federal money in grants to the states.

    • “However, both Trump supporters and honest Trump critics could learn a lot from the book as to what has happened to American politics.”
      What changed in American politics, is Trump.
      I think Trump would be happy to run as Dem. And Dems would have loved him.
      But Trump wanted be the US president {and didn’t want to be governor or a Mayor or some member of Congress} and the trick of being a US President was winning a Dem or Rep primary. And Trump determined {correctly} it was more possible getting in Rep Primary {and winning} than trying get into Dem primary.
      What I think, no one could guessed or predicted, was the Media actually causing Trump to get elected. As political move it’s smart to “get into the news” as it’s free advertisement. So Trump deliberately said things to get media attention {as do all politicans} but I don’t think he was expecting or hoping that the media would get so hysterical obsessed with Trump.
      Having CNN hate you is not really problem, as most people are not overly fond of CNN or the media in general.
      And Fake News was not a Trump invention, but rather it was expression that he adopted, as “fake new” was everywhere- everyone knew the news was utterly fake.
      Anyways as CNN has said, they actually got Trump elected. And even CNN can right about some things.
      But they continuing to get Trump re-elected even though the last thing they want to do is get Trump elected.
      One could say having Trump be President has been money maker for the news media, but I think making money is not a conscious deliberate plan, and that they really, **REALLY**, don’t want Trump being the President.

      In simple terms, they are simply idiots.
      They are similar to drug addicts- they can’t control themselves. And Trump, plays them. And they know Trump is playing them.
      But they are fundamentally a clown show, and they are the coyote after the road runner.
      Anyways, roughly Trump simply reads the polls and follows the polls. No different than any other politician.
      But Trump does have “energy” and makes energy, and follows the energy. Also Trump tends to focus on positive energy. Whereas other pols tend to follow negative energy.

      • gbaikie replied to me:
        >I think Trump would be happy to run as Dem. And Dems would have loved him.

        I generally agree with your analysis.

        One of the the things I find so bizarre about the hatred of Trump is that his domestic policy is not much different form JFK’s and his foreign policy is not much different from George McGovern’s.

        Liberals should like this guy.

        Which is why I think the class analysis is the only explanation: the chattering classes fear that Trump is the avatar of the deep, dark, frightening working class, at last arising to throw off the class hegemony of the parasitic verbalist overclass.

        Which probably over-rates Trump’s intentions, power, or significance.

        But it does reveal what Joshua and James Cross truly fear — that the productive class will eventually mete out justice to parasites like them.

        Hopefully, that fear is justified.

      • “…not much different form JFK’s and his foreign policy is not much different from George McGovern’s.”
        JFK certainly. Nixon was the liberal in the JFK vs Nixon. JFK was a cold warrior {in theory} but of course JFK was young and he did blink.
        I don’t much about George McGovern, but I assume he was racist and he seem to be quite stupid {and being a racist and being stupid sort of go together}.

        “Which is why I think the class analysis is the only explanation: the chattering classes fear that Trump is the avatar of the deep, dark, frightening working class, at last arising to throw off the class hegemony of the parasitic verbalist overclass.”
        Well, working class does control this country- always has, always will.
        The parasitic verbalist overclass does seem a bit deluded about this- and tries to belittle that power.
        But I think it’s mostly that parasitic verbalist overclass being hopeless foolish and delusional. And their only success lies in keeping their mouths shut.
        Because generally, the working class has more important things to worry about- unless you make a tremendous effort to annoy and insult them.
        No doubt the parasitic verbalist overclass wants continue to belittle the greatest people who have existed on planet Earth. But it is more suicidal move, rather than anything to do with being sane.

    • Tony –

      Related (somewhat indirectly) to what we’ve been discussing:

      -snip-
      A relentless success ethic permeated the culture: “Those at the top deserved their place but so too did those who were left behind. They hadn’t striven as effectively. They hadn’t got a university degree and so on.” As centre-left parties and their representatives became more and more middle-class, the focus on upward mobility intensified. “They became reliant on the professional classes as their constituency, and in the US as a source of campaign finance. In 2008 Barack Obama became the first Democratic candidate for president to raise more than his Republican opponent. That was a turning point but it wasn’t noticed or highlighted at the time.”
      -snip-

      https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/sep/06/michael-sandel-the-populist-backlash-has-been-a-revolt-against-the-tyranny-of-merit

      • Except, Joshua, some of us who are on the inside of the parastitic verbalist overclass are perceptive enough to look around and see that most of our peers have no merit at all — unless you count it as meritorious to use verbal tricks to control and manipulate their fellow citizens.

        Lawyers, politicians, HR shills, finance professionals., diversity consultants, and all the rest. Hard to see much merit there.

        My wife and I both have Ph.D.s from Stanford. We have seen the con game from the inside. No, not much merit at all.

        Tell us, Joshua, do you have any productive skills at all? Can you build a high-rise or repair a tractor or design an integrated circuit, or anything else except use symbols to manipulate people?

    • UK-Weather Lass

      “Laws and regulations that corporate lobbyists are unable to persuade national democratic legislatures to enact can be repackaged and hidden in harmonization agreements masked as lengthy trade treaties, which are then ratified by legislatures without adequate scrutiny.

      Whatever its minor benefits, legislation by treaty represents a massive transfer of power from democratic legislatures to corporate managers and bankers. Jean-Claude Juncker, the prime minister of the tax haven Luxembourg who became the president of the European Commission from 2014 to 2019, described how the European Council systematically expanded its authority by stealth: “We decree something, then float it and wait some time to see what happens.

      If no clamour occurs . . . because most people do not grasp what had been decided, we continue—step by step, until the point of no return is reached.”

      That is how Lind described the prescriptive ways the EU for example developed its many strategies for utilising the many for whom short term gain is better than profound long term security. This is how a ‘clever’ dealer in words can defeat a chattering elite in much the same ways trade unions and associations learned how to block measures that would significantly damage those they represented in the medium to long term. These skills have been demolished in favour of lawyers whose chief ability is the ambiguity of language. These people speak it but do not understand it. The more verbose someone is the more likely you’ll get little real sense from them, IMO.

    • physicistdave, I really enjoyed your post. I intend to read the book you suggest: “The New Class War: Saving Democracy From The Managerial Elite.” I appreciate clarity, which is often difficult to find in this highly charged political environment.

  49. Democrats and Their Media Allies Impugned Biden’s Cognitive Fitness. Now They Feign Outrage.
    https://theintercept.com/2020/03/09/it-was-democrats-and-their-media-allies-who-impugned-bidens-cognitive-fitness-yet-now-feign-outrage/
    Fox News gives one side. The Left, nothing to see here. To me it seems they’re trying to script things for him.

  50. Is the Trump campaign broke?

    Pulling down ads, no follow-up ad blitz after convention.

    Maybe the Russians aren’t kicking in as much since they suspect he’s a loser.

  51. #Dumbkirk

    • That’s really desperation. Thousands and thousands of boats across the country sailing in Trump armadas and the media won’t cover it, until 4 sorta sank. Those folks will buy new and bigger boats with their Trump tax savings, stock investments and higher pay from a resurgent economy.

      TDS soyboys are desperate.

  52. Our TDS soyboys are in a panicked frenzy. Old sleepy senile joe is going down fast and hard. Their riots are backfiring:

  53. Not sure I’d agree that he’s acceptable under the circumstances, but this video narrated by the great Steve Buscemi is funny:

    • Nails it.

      • Yeah, it does nail it.

        The Joe Biden of 1995 would easily win this election.

        But he really is having trouble functioning now.

        And people really do have questions as to whether he can still be his own man or whether he will just be a puppet. I have talked to Biden supporters who argue that we should not worry, precisely because Biden will be a puppet.

        But a puppet of whom?

        Given what is happening in the country right now, that question has a lot of people very worried.

        Maybe the Dems should just run this as the only Biden campaign ad. It is certainly truthful, and maybe that truthiness would enable Joe to win.

      • Odd how this puppet meme seems to be an obsession among the Trump supporters. Probably some form of projection coming from cognitive dissonance of loving the Putin Puppet.

      • There are still a lot of disingenuous varmints trying to push the Russia Russia Russia hoax. Mindless Hillary puppets.

      • Don Monfort wrote in reply to James Cross:
        >There are still a lot of disingenuous varmints trying to push the Russia Russia Russia hoax. Mindless Hillary puppets.

        No, it is not mindlessness: it is fear — deep, abiding, mind-numbing fear that the great dark beast of the productive working class is finally arising from its slumber to mete out justice to members of the parasitic verbalist overclass like James Cross.

        You gotta have some sympathy for guys like James: he is dependent for the food he eats, the buildings he works and lives in, the water and power that flow into his home, even the sewage system that keeps his home from becoming a literal cesspool upon people he hates and despises — he calls them “losers and suckers.”

        I mean, James Cross cannot build a high-rise, repair a tractor, or design an integrated circuit — he depends upon the productive class he hates for everything that keeps him alive.

        And now that exploited working class has had enough.

        Wouldn’t you be terrified if you were James Cross? How can he physically survive if we end the rule of the parasites? What productive skill can James Cross contribute to society?

      • “There are still a lot of disingenuous varmints trying to push the Russia Russia Russia hoax. Mindless Hillary puppets.”

        Russia has been awfully quiet this time around. Funny how that happened once Hillary and the DNC stopped paying Steele and Simpson to collect Russian misinformation in an effort to impact the election.

      • Norway, if you have those pee tapes, now is the time to release them.

    • That is funny and it’s absolutely the best spin the so-called Democrats can put to old senile sleepy joe’s appeal for votes. However, their big problem is that the country is not falling apart. The China Wuhan Bat Soup virus is fading, with a vaccine on the horizon. The economy is strongly rebounding, because Trump policies had it booming, before the China Wuhan Bat Soup doo doo hit the fan. The rioting, looting, burning and general lawlessness in the streets has been encouraged and abetted by the Democrats. They own it. It’s killing them.

    • @2:20 “… It’s not like he wants to nuke hurricanes. He’s not out here trying to buy Greenland for Chrissakes.”

      I think whether an H-bomb could divert or disperse a hurricane is a legitimate question to ask and what’s wrong with trying to buy Greenland?

  54. Promotion of Reason and Bridget Phetasy:
    Bridget Phetasy: What American Politics Can Learn From Alcoholics Anonymous
    https://reason.com/podcast/bridget-phetasy-what-american-politics-can-learn-from-alcoholics-anonymous/
    “…she says that Democratic and Republican hyper-partisans would benefit from some of the lessons about personal responsibility and optimism taught by Alcohol Anonymous; she even offers her own 12-step program for electoral independence and recovery.”

  55. Decolonizing Light investigates the reproduction of colonialism in and through physics and higher physics education and explores ways of academic decolonization.
    https://decolonizinglight.com/

    Cultural ideas about light in Indigenous knowledges and philosophies
    The concept of light in the history of science through a decolonial lens
    Physicists’ views on colonialism in science

    This is a really good deal. Light has always bothered me. Galileo used light to see the Galilean Moons for the first time even though other people had knew about Jupiter a long time before he came along. So something orbited something that was not the Earth. Light was used to figure this out.

    Now if you know about Orion the Hunter, then there’s more proof. Named after some Greek, who was probably white but with a good tan. Then we colonized North America, and kept it named Orion. Even though, Native Americans didn’t call it Orion. But if we had not colonized North America, what would we call it? If North America had colonized Europe, it would be named something else, though it has many names across cultures. China I am sure named Orion the Hunter something else. Who colonized who in that case? China is trying colonize us by indirect methods. If they win, what will we call Orion the Hunter? The more time we devote to figuring that one out, the more likely the chance they will colonize us.

  56. It’s true that increasing greenhouse gas has contributed to making the world warmer. It’s just that the ghg is NOT CO2. CO2 does not now, never has, and never will have a significant effect on climate. The green new deal would have no effect on climate.

    The only increasing greenhouse gas that has a significant effect on climate (climate includes temperature) is water vapor. Naturally sourced water vapor helped make the planet warm enough for life as we know it to evolve. Humanity has been causing the water vapor to slowly increase for millennia as a result of increasing irrigation. Irrigation and other water vapor sources have increased along with human population and began to increase much more rapidly around 1960.

    Water vapor has been accurately measured worldwide only since Jan 1988 when it began being measured as total precipitable water (TPW) by NASA/RSS satellite. One of the reasons the Global Circulation Models are wrong is that they calculate the WV from the temperature assuming constant relative humidity instead of using the actual WV measurements which are greater.

    Blaming CO2 for warming is shallow penetration of science/physics. Analysis using data from Quantum Mechanics calculations by Hitran reveals that water vapor increase has caused about 10 times more ground level warming than CO2 increase. The cooling effect of more CO2 in the stratosphere apparently cancels the small contribution to warming of more CO2 at ground level with the result that CO2 has no significant effect on climate.

    Average global WV has been increasing about 1.5% per decade which is MORE THAN POSSIBLE from feedback from average global temperature increase. Most (about 96%) of the WV increase is a result of irrigation increase. All of the human contribution to climate change is a result of increased water vapor.

    The good news is that there is a limit to how much WV the atmosphere can hold so there is a limit to Global Warming. In fact, the added WV will at least delay and might even prevent a global plunge into glaciation. https://watervaporandwarming.blogspot.com

  57. The agenda is priceless. A rerun of 2016.
    Every week to 10 days drop a bombshell that blows the Trump team out of the water.
    Mainly personal, nasty, insider attacks.
    Nothing of political substance.
    Have not seen Stormy Daniels yet, but she is coming.
    Expect anonymous and non anonymous revelations, perhaps taped, from past acquaintances and work colleagues.
    Another link to Russia, or three.
    What Hilary blathers is often the direction the forces are trying to move in.

    After 4 years of incessant news attacks most politicians are worn out and disappear. Voter affection can turn in times of continued negative publicity.
    But it is a 2 to 10 day attention span normally.
    Things that drag out beyond this have bigger roles to play, the right to vote for Afro Americans, the right to vote for women went on for years.
    Black Lives Matter, the abortion debate and LGBT rights fall into a lesser category, purely because there are less people to whom it is of interest.

    In these cases the rightness of the cause is balanced by the actions taken which are out of proportion. Prolonged peaceful protest will win, violent protest will have a backlash.

    Like 2016 the mood for those on the Trump side is somber, dark, and given the above and what is to come yet, deservedly so. Most Americans would prefer to have a much calmer and dignified President.

    The problem for the Democrats is that could not find one to step up to the plate. The Biden Harris Frankenstein ( in the sense that it is cobbled together of all the things that they would have liked in one candidate) fails the common sense test.
    A little bit of white guy in a suit for dignity, a little bit of looks very faded but brightened by a little bit of femininity and a little bit of ethnicity. Shame they could not fit a Spanish background husband or wife in.
    Something for nearly anyone.
    The big problem KH finger on the nuclear button.

    At the moment I expect Trump to lose, same as 2016. The American people and system fooled me then.
    I hope they fool me again but if not I will follow the same routine Election Day as 2016.
    Go to bed when the results start to come in.
    Stay there while the wife says how far the a Democrat’s are ahead.
    Open the eyes 4 hours later and walk around depressed.
    If the wife says hey it’s changed I will perk up.
    If not I will go back to bed for 4 years.

    At the end of the day nothing really matters. A politician is always elected. The Yankees always lose. Nothing to really get alarmed about. Truth and decency are only notions losers aspire to.

  58. Hey. I’m from Denmark. But trying to follow the US policy, Nancy, and all around the Democrats and media. Its not easy to understand what this man has gone through last 4 years.. It is totally wrong to not blame shifty Shadows and the myths Jerry,, Nobody is perfect. But Democrats can’t care about the people in US

  59. Phillip B Flexon MD FACS

    As a physician I am saddened by the extreme politicalization of Medical science and the use of Hydroxychloroquine in Covid. Here is yet another large well done study from Belgium’s Health system. While it is retrospective it is well done with large numbers. Furthermore there is no good prospective trial done using the medication early in high risk patients showing it does not work. The press has ignored the Belgium study. It is costing lives.
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920303423

    • Yeah, but Donald Trump once said that just maybe HCQ might just possibly be of some possible benefit.

      Therefore, HCQ is evil.

      We don’t need to look at any empirical evidence.

      It’s like tearing down the statue of that abolitionist guy. We don’t need facts when we have Truth.

    • MD,

      Did you look at the details of that study?

      Nearly 45% of the group not receiving HCQ were over 80 years old. Only 23% of the HCQ group were over 80 years old. A major difference in the groups.

      HCQ group 1056/4541 (23.3)

      No HCQ 1573/3530 (44.6)

      • Phillip Flexon

        Yes. Out of the two treatment groups there were 517 more individuals over 80 ((1,573 vs 1,056) but the treatment group had more men and were sicker than the control group. But the bottom line is the study had 8,910 people in it and that statistical analysis computing risk proportional hazards were adjusted for age. With the large numbers in this study the benefit of HCQ independent of age or any risk factor Is undeniable. This is a good study.

      • Median age significantly different.

        66 (54-78) for treatment group vs 77 (63-85) for non-treatment group

        Also, since there was a cutoff date related to selection in the study, it is possible there was a significant number of HCQ treated people who died not included in the trial. The non-treated group who were significantly older just died more quickly while a group of treated died after the cutoff date and didn’t get included.

        Even with those potential biases, 17% of the treated group died and the difference between the two groups isn’t much different than the difference that could be achieved with corticosteroids.

      • I’m wondering now if the two groups even received comparable supportive care.

        A higher percentage of HCQ received corticosteroids and 11% of the HCQ group were on ventilators while just 3% of the non-HCQ group.

      • A higher % of HCQ group patients ended up in ICU and on ventilators, because they had been sicker on admission. That very likely influenced the decision to give them HCQ, while those less seriously ill did not get it. How many of the deceased from the latter group would be alive, if they had also been treated with HCQ, which is cheap and safe?

        HCQ did not become widely used in treating the China CCP Wuhan Bat Soup virus because of Donald Trump. It was because thousands of docs around the world perceived that it worked. Left loons need to stop persecuting a drug for mean low-down political reasons. You could step up and be the first, jimmy.

        “As shown in Table 2, COVID-19 patients in the HCQ group were younger and male sex was predominant. Several comorbidities were significantly less frequent in the HCQ group, including cardiovascular diseases, arterial hypertension, chronic renal disease, neurological and cognitive disorders, solid cancer, obesity as well as the proportion of active smokers. On the other hand, at admission, patients in the HCQ group appeared to be sicker as reflected by the higher frequency of radiological pneumonia, acute respiratory distress syndrome, ICU transfer within the 24h after admission and invasive ventilation support as well as the higher frequency of elevated LDH and CRP levels.”

      • Don,

        Untreated were a lot older with higher incidence of cardiovascular, renal, and hypertensive disease. They died more quickly after admission without ever being put on a ventilator.

        My guess is a disproportionate share of them came from nursing homes and were already almost dead by the time they got to the hospital. They died from benign neglect, triage.

    • Thousands of Americans have died and are still dying because of a bureaucracy and MSM blinded by TDS. Experience in this and other countries have demonstrated that early use of hydroxychloroquine will reduce bad outcomes (hospitalization, death) by 50 to 80%.

      Back in April, Trump suggested hydroxychloroquine might be useful against covid-19. He was relentlessly berated by the MSM and others inflicted with TDS. Combined with corruption and conflict of interest, this has resulted in it not being widely used in the U.S. Turns out Trump was right.

      Henry Ford Health System study found that HCQ alone reduced death rate from covid by 50%. https://www.henryford.com/news/2020/07/hydro-treatment-study

      Swiss and French experience showed 2 to 3 times higher death rate when HCQ use was temporarily stopped. http://www.francesoir.fr/societe-sante/covid-19-hydroxychloroquine-works-irrefutable-proof

      The Dr. Zev Zelenko outpatient study, using the Zelenko protocol of low dose [400 mg/day?] HCQ + zinc + azithromycin (aka Z-pak) demonstrated an 80% reduction in bad outcomes. https://tinyurl.com/y68z2ahj

      In the U.S., in spite of the above and tens of millions of doses used over several decades with no serious side effects; and in spite of knowing that treatment should be started as soon as possible (after hospitalization is sometimes too late) this is what doctors and the public get from a government bureaucracy: https://tinyurl.com/y7jux6yu
      “FDA cautions against use of hydroxychloroquine or chloroquine for COVID-19 outside of the hospital setting or a clinical trial due to risk of heart rhythm problems.”

      Why has HCQ been used in the U.S. in conditions where it should be expected to be ineffective?

      Meanwhile in the U.S. the FDA has granted an Emergency Use Authorization for the unapproved, expensive drug remdesivir which is “not yet known [to be] safe and effective for the treatment of COVID-19”. It has demonstrated a possible positive effect but the results are considered not statistically significant. (remdesivir, which costs about 60X as much as the HCQ ‘cocktail’) is a product (Vekulury) of Gilead Sciences, a company in which some U.S. officials might have financial or other interest) https://tinyurl.com/yxjzr4tf

      A plan to reduce covid-19 deaths in the U.S. has been made public https://corsination.com/national-plan-for-sars-cov-2-covid-19/

      A federal court filing for why government interference with hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) should end is presented at https://tinyurl.com/y6cmlzo9

      A covid-19 vaccine can be approved for general use even if it is only 50% effective in preventing the disease. https://tinyurl.com/yxuufu25

      To get HCQ by mail, https://t.co/dzaXAPdMNi?amp=1 or americasfrontlinedoctorsummit

    • Philipo B Flexon MD FACS: Here is yet another large well done study from Belgium’s Health system. While it is retrospective it is well done with large numbers.

      If there is bias in the design or conduct of the study, large numbers amplify the bias. Read the other comments for evidence of the bias in the conduct of the study.

      Thank you for the link.

      • Phillip B Flexon, I apologize for misspelling your name.

      • It’s a retrospective. They are toting up the results of various treatment regimens and comparing results. What’s biased about their design or conduct of the study? The authors did not decide who got what treatment. Selection of which patients to include in the study seems reasonable. They reported what they found in the patients’ treatment records. They pointed out that the treatment groups had significant differences.

        What’s the problem?

        “As shown in Table 2, COVID-19 patients in the HCQ group were younger and male sex was predominant. Several comorbidities were significantly less frequent in the HCQ group, including cardiovascular diseases, arterial hypertension, chronic renal disease, neurological and cognitive disorders, solid cancer, obesity as well as the proportion of active smokers. On the other hand, at admission, patients in the HCQ group appeared to be sicker as reflected by the higher frequency of radiological pneumonia, acute respiratory distress syndrome, ICU transfer within the 24h after admission and invasive ventilation support as well as the higher frequency of elevated LDH and CRP levels.”

  60. UK-Weather Lass

    I live in a ‘community’ and the laws of the whole State in which my community resides apply to me, those in my home, my neighbours, and all those who make up the State. There are local community rules which control local functions but basically that rule is effectively achieved because of common sense, common understanding and common values. In my community I am perfectly free to say I don’t believe in CO2’s influence upon climate, and that I strongly disapprove of lockdown as a way of containing ‘flu viruses such as SARS-CoV-2.

    The chattering elites rule that when I go ‘online’ I am joining a different community and yet they don’t explain or say why this different community controls what I say in ways that cannot be enforced in the world ‘offline’. Here they declare speech is only free if the community will like what you have to say. To be otherwise, they tell us, would be dangerous. In other words they wish to control every word you utter in a certain way.

    Right, Left and Centre political groups have now become communities who only allow speech which follows their prescribed doctrines, a bit like the corporate managers of the internet who have demolished the Internet’s original freedoms. They also wish to control you, your thoughts, and your actions which are not what politics at the individual level is or should be about. They should be embracing your differences and trying to find the perspectives that include you, and not try to annihilate them. Differences are good not bad.

    What we are losing is our freedom of thought lock, stock, and barrel to a group of middle class meddlers who don’t wish to go down their social ladder whilst knowing they cannot go up the ladder unless they do exactly what they are told to do. The chattering elites must not like the notion of freedom at all and so why do we tolerate them?

    • Lass –

      I feel for you. You’re such a victim.

      You can say anything here that Judith doesn’t consider offensive, and you have more ability to have your voice heard than most people on the planet, and exponentially more than only a tiny % of humans throughout history, but you’re such a victim.

      I shed a tear.

      • “I feel for you. You’re such a victim.”
        Both sides do it because it works. It’s the oppression Olympics. Blacks are victimized by a statue of Thomas Jefferson on public land. I think you yourself are victimized by that. I am undecided on the big tech monopoly or whatever you want to call it. Some may carve out other platforms. We are on a small one. When Facebook and Google carry Biden to victory, the lesson is get your own darn platform. Which some have done. I support a few of them who have done that through Patreon. Even Patreon is populated by SJWs, so I supported someone else with my credit card, until that credit card company kicks out that someone. Then maybe I’ll use Paypal. Which I all ready use to run cards and get paid. I am a libertarian. Just call me marginalized. So what? Facebook markets itself. If it wants to commit suicide, I am all for that. I remember when the Ukranians were victims. But we just discarded them like a used paper towel. Who cares? The Ukranian index is 0.00.

      • Ragnaar –

        > Both sides do it because it works.

        That depends on how you define “works.” Clearly, at some level it helps some people to feel more justified. A Buddhist would question that as a definition of “works.”

      • J:

        The Democrats have farmed victims for a long time. Raise taxes on corporations. Tax the rich. So Trump did the same thing. Both worked. It didn’t hurt the Democrats found out they like big money too. So each side has their victims. Who has the most victims? What a country. Back your our earlier discussion. They farm Blacks. I don’t think you farm someone that is your equal. When they are your equal, they will refuse to be farmed in my opinion.

      • UK-Weather Lass

        ‘I feel for you. You’re such a victim’.

        Then you are not very perceptive, Joshua, are you? If you wish to reduce everyone to your level then at least allow for the fact that you may just be incredibly bad at understanding what you think you are seeing, hearing, smelling, tasting, and touching in your life.. Most of us know the ways to wobble consensus opinion by using whatever intelligence we have not to argue semantics but to invoke serious changes in direction..

        However, I do agree we are fortunate to have people like Dr Curry around us.

    • UK-W L: You are exactly right and it is the left-wing socialists who are attempting to eliminate conservative thought from the new public square, the internet. I suggest you join Parler. It is something like Twitter or Facebook, except it is dedicated to Free Speech as long as it is legal. Other than that, there are no restrictions.

      https://parler.com/auth/access

      • jim2

        Yes that was a very good comment from weather lass.

        The trouble is that if you retreat from the public square it becomes occupied permanently by those who think the only correct opinion is the one they hold. Their belief that everyone agrees with them is not challenged if everyone has moved to more comfortable pastures

        tonyb

      • Another example of the whining right who aren’t really competitive in the marketplace of ideas or even for voters. That is why they are consistently on the short end of actual votes and forced to rely on voter suppression and the arcanity of the electoral college to stay in power.

      • How left loons compete in the marketplace of ideas:

      • If they get their way, they will do away with our arcane Constitution.

      • Yep. More from the whiny right. OMG, the Constitution. Separation of powers. Freedom of speech. The Post Office. Somebody ought put the Big Orange onto the idea.

        Trump says his ‘authority is total.’ Constitutional experts have ‘no idea’ where he got that.

        “Trump later clarified his position further, telling reporters, “When somebody is the president of the United States, the authority is total and that’s the way it’s got to be. … It’s total. The governors know that.”

        The local leaders, Trump said, “can’t do anything without the approval of the president of the United States.”

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/04/14/trump-power-constitution-coronavirus/

      • You will only have to suffer under Trump rule for another 4 years and a few months, jimmy. Can you take it, snowflake?

      • Sadly for them we have a good line-up, Don. But kudos for the good tease.

      • tonyb – You can join Parler and keep your Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, or whatever your poison. It’s good to intake news and opinion from a variety of sources. I myself prefer Fox News. However, I also tune in to CNN and MSNBC just about every day. Same with internet sources. If you do that, it’s real easy to see who’s lying, who is spinning the truth, and who spouts the most propaganda. I can tell you with certainty that a man blind in one eye and can’t see out the other can tell it ain’t Fox News.

        But when you get tired of being shadow banned by the Tech Giant a$$3s. You can open you Parler account and say whatever is on your mind. It’s refreshing. It’s healthy. And most importantly, it’s what the good ole USA is all about!

    • UK-Weather Lass,

      Excellent comment. Thank you!!

  61. Q: This LSA letter is an astonishing document.

    A: I think it’s part of a larger mindset that does not see the world as having complex problems that we fail to understand and ought to try to understand better to diagnose and treat, but rather as a kind of warfare between powerful elites and oppressed masses. In the classic Marxist analysis, these would be economic classes, but they’ve been transformed to racial and sexual classes.

    In this mindset, analysis, debate, evidence are just tools—propaganda exercised by those in power. What has to happen is not a deeper understanding of social problems, but a wresting of power from elites and redistributing it to the disenfranchised.

    https://reason.com/2020/09/06/steven-pinker-survives-attempted-cancellation/
    ——————————————
    As our next President says, Bingo.
    Rather than fight back and be called a bigot, people just give in. The economic arguments of the 1960s didn’t work. So they found their in. Race. And then the Republicans cower. Major League sports and my corporations cower. Trump said he would wrest power from the elites, who then tried to destroy him. So who is the Republican? Trump. Sure you can point out a long list of things where Trump is not a Republican and what he does wrong.

    Consider all the progress we’ve made on racial issues. Some see the situation as a defeat. The war must continue.

  62. I heard that Trump exposed everyone for what they are. Kind of like these comments. I wonder what’s going at SkS and RealClimate? Who is either moving to Montana or out of the country depending on the results of the Trump/Biden election? I’ll be trying get a view of Mars for the first time, that is approaching opposition. I would appreciate anyone who would move to Mars. Even a rich White guy. I hope he plants a libertarian flag if there is one.

  63. Well, a lot of opinion and sniping about Trump. So, let’s try a few facts about racism. Trump the “racist” championed prison reform and signed into law the 1st Step Act which essentially reversed legislation championed and authored by Joe Biden and signed into law by Bill Clinton that specifically targeted minorities for non-violent drug offenses for using crack as opposed to the more pure form of powder cocaine. Biden’s legislation is what led to increased incarceration of blacks. The 1st Step Act provides a pathway to freedom for those incarcerated for these relatively minor crimes and over 90% of those benefiting for this legislation are black males.

    Trump issued an executive order to move an initiative to assist the Historically Black Colleges and Universities from the Education Department back to the White House allowing the WH to have more direct influence on funding and other issues. He then championed legislation to not only restore funding, but to increase it by 17% over historical levels and making it permanent so that HBCU’s would not have to wait around for Congress to act on renewing funding.

    He also signed bipartisan legislation co-sponsored by Corey Booker and Tim Scott to increase funding for Sickle Cell Anemia research.

    And lastly, what in my opinion is his most important action was calling for the creation of enterprise zones in minority communities in his “tax plan for the rich”. His creation of tax incentives to encourage investment in these zones led directly to the lowest unemployment rates for minorities in our country’s history prior to COVID while also encouraging and providing incentives through private investment for minorities to start and run their own businesses. This is in stark contrast to our historic approach of providing government handouts that simply create institutionalized dependence on government.

  64. Compare Trump’s accomplishments to the history of democrats. To the extent systemic racism exists can be laid at the feet of the democratic party. The democratic party is the party of slavery, Jim Crow, the KKK, Japanese (and Italian and German) internment camps, redlining, segregation, and in the modern day, it is the party of identity politics along with crime infested, rotting inner cities with failing schools, and has been exposed since George Floyd as the party of anarchy. The most insidious action was the federalization of redlining under FDR’s administration when he created the Fair Housing Administration which introduced redlining policies in over 200 cities across the US.

    • > To the extent systemic racism exists can be laid at the feet of the democratic party.

      This is the kind of logic I love. Trump and Barr say it doesn’t exist. And if they don’t think it exists then they don’t think there’s anything to fix.

      So anyway, it doesn’t exist, but if it did exist, then Democrats would be responsible for it. Lol.

      This not only is approach we see to accountability in our federal government, it’s also the approach to accountability we see from the cult.

      • Well J, I said nothing about Trump or Barr. It is those on the left that continue to claim that there is systemic racism. In case you’ve been asleep for the last few months, there have been a few “peaceful” gatherings to protest systemic racism. Many in the black community dispute that it still exists and point to the progress this country has made to eliminate it. I’m just pointing out that to the extent it does exist is a legacy of the democratic party. Instead of posting a silly snipe, why don’t you counter the facts I posted?

      • Barnes –

        Uncharacteristically, I’m not going to bother debating this with you. Some debates are too pointless even for me. But let me just ask you, are you familiar with the “Southern Strategy?”

      • The way this works, Barnes, is that whatever your reply, little joshie will declare that you made his point.

      • Don –

        Wow. I guess it really left a mark when I explained how your innane comments just helped to make my point.

        Thanks for making my point.

      • You see that, Barnes? The usual smarmy joshie MO.

        Shouldn’t you be out toppling statues and beating up little kids wearing MAGA hats, joshie? Take little jimmy with you. Those MAGA kids are tough.

      • So anyway, it doesn’t exist, but if it did exist, then Democrats would be responsible for it.
        ——————————–
        Worth your weight in gold.

        California Legislature Votes To Remove Anti-Discrimination Language From State Constitution

        I think you want to be sarcastic. But you’ve captured the situation very nicely. What does exist is people are afraid of being called bigots, so they just go along with the hysteria. The mob consumes them. You’re trying to find Billy Bob with shotgun but he never shows up. Those must have been a bunch of racists along Lake Street in Minneapolis who had their businesses torched.

      • Well J. You have no point to make because you can’t refute anything I said. Nice try at deflection though.

      • Don – notice that of the statues they took down, one was of Frederick Douglass and another attempt was for the Emancipation Memorial, yet the statue of Lennon still stands proudly in Seattle, unmolested. Maybe Josh can go there and kneel before his hero.

  65. As to the party of anarchy, look who took the lead in promoting violence.

  66. We are starting to see more more blacks speaking out as well. https://twitter.com/i/status/1295461903268040707

    • More “blacks”? What is a “black”?

      • Watch the video. If you need help after that, come back and we will try to educate you. Where are you from? Mars?

      • Don Monfort,
        New York magazine published the plan for the election:
        https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/09/trump-could-have-election-night-lead-due-to-mail-in-voting.html

        You have to read between the lines a bit, but here is the executive summary:

        Most of Trump’s votes are counted on election day. He seems to have won, not just the Electoral College but also the popular vote.

        But some of the swing states don’t start counting mail-in votes until election day, so they will not finish until several days later.

        And, key point: they will therefore know how many Biden votes they need in order to beat Trump.

        So, in the week or two following November 3, just enough mail-in votes will be “discovered” to swing the election to Biden. Anyone who used to follow the operation of the Daley machine in Chicago, as I did when I was a kid, knows how this works.

        We might as well use Kilgore’s term “Red Mirage” for the plan.

        So, why did Kilgore spell it out so clearly? Part of the game plan is to control the narrative so that when Trump objects to the post-election manipulation of the vote tallies, the media can blame him and claim that it is Trump who is trying to steal the election.

        And when Trump objects to the vote stealing, they get their Red Guards out in the streets and start burning down the cities big time, until the country has had enough and Trump feels he has to concede.

        I suppose that all this has been pretty clear to the Trump people and any perceptive observers for some time, but it is nice that Ed Kilgore, from the other side, spelled it out so nicely a few days ago.

        The Deep State has had this sort of thing down to a science, though they failed in Syria and seem to have failed just recently in Belarus.

        Full disclosure: I did technical work for the US Intelligence Community back in the ’80s and ’90s: that’s where I got most of the patents on which I am co-inventor. I was just a lowly physicist, so I wasn’t privy to all the black ops. I would like to know how deep the US Intel Community is into “Red Mirage.”

        As Syria and Belarus show, these sort of things don’t always succeed. But i think it is safe to predict that between now and New Years’ we are going to live in very interesting times.

        Latest news re Belarus, hot off the presses:
        https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/09/belarus-opposition-figure-detained-ukraine-border-200908074403551.html

        Allegedly, Belarusian border officials captured the leading opposition leader, Maria Kolesnikova, trying to flee the country at the Ukrainian border.

        In the next four months, we may all have the feeling we are living in a Tom Clancy novel!

    • Once we get JMurphy’s question answered to it’s satisfaction (it being gender neutral), then we might inquire if it has any innie-outie questions to resolve.

  67. And, just for fun, the latest democratic ad.

  68. A good strategic energy platform plank for either party would be to make Michael Shellenberger Secretary of Energy so he could see that we don’t cede nuclear energy to our strategic rivals, China and Russia, who ARE building nuclear plants!

    • “A good strategic energy platform plank for either party would be to make Michael Shellenberger Secretary of Energy”
      Only advantage would be give him some governmental executive experience. And might allow him to then be a potential US president.
      Considering Dems never pick anyone who has executive experience, he could skip that and run as Dem US president- and probably be one best choices as Dem leader. But then again, the Left probably wants to murder him. Trump could make him some sort Czar type thing, but Trump not fond of Czar type things- leader of some task force, perhaps.

      • He has experience spending Obama’s stimulus money on renewables under the Apollo Alliance (where he saw what a waste it was). Is there anyone who is more intelligent or articulate in climate/energy politics? There’s nobody else I’d rather see in politics.

      • Of course, I am mostly crazy, and I think the focus or a focus regarding nuclear energy is to have floating nuclear power plants.
        One advantage of float nuclear power plants is they can put a large distance away from residential areas, and at same time be close to residential areas. Or 50 miles is not a large distance to transmit electrical energy.
        Now, to have floating nuclear power plants, the key element is controlling ocean {or lake} waves, and rather than make a floating nuclear power plant designed to handle waves, one have it within region which has means of controlling wave. Or make breakwaters, and rather landfill, I would make floating breakwaters. So I would make ocean real estate which didn’t have any significant wave in it.
        And it seems, if made floating breakwater, which creates calm ocean water say 1 km in diameter {or less} this could place to put floating nuclear power plants. It would also be real estate which can used for other purposes other nuclear power plants.
        So, if build breakwater for nuclear power plants, it could cause people to want actually live in the area. But difference is the people are choosing to live near a nuclear plant, rather trying put nuclear where people are already living.
        Now it might better to start by first focus on building residential living in ocean settlements. One advantage is that with floating breakwater for residential living, one could live closer to the shore. So it could be say 5 miles from the shore and allow shorter travel times to to city or town.
        Anyways a key part of this is making cheap enough floating breakwater, which I say needs to be less than $10 million dollar per km.

    • A good strategic energy plan would make sure we never come close to doing anything like the GND.

    • Thanks for the excellent video of Michael Shellenberger’s presentation to Congress and his answers to the many questions. Well worth watching. Strongly recommended!

  69. There is a point on the graph where over confidence in a lack of domain knowledge is just batshit crazy.

    Climate science is complicated.

  70. Endless Groundhog-day lockdowns are not sustainable. What is needed is a permanent strategy for minimising transmission while allowing economic life; combined with testing and tracing that works. Both need intelligent leadership and a cooperative population.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54065793

  71. Fascinating the Trump today went on the offensive against war profiteers in the military after making profits for arms manufacturers a key plank of both his presidency and his campaign platform.

    In a normal world tbis would be considered a sign thst Trump is a logically incoherent politician saying anything at all to pander for votes.

    But in today’s Republican cult he remains dear leader.

  72. A White professor says she has been pretending to be Black for her entire professional career
    If you can identify as an any gender you want, why is race excluded from this?
    “Science would favor Du Bois. Today, the mainstream belief among scientists is that race is a social construct without biological meaning. And yet, you might still open a study on genetics in a major scientific journal and find categories like “white” and “black” being used as biological variables.”
    https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/race-is-a-social-construct-scientists-argue/
    I follow the science. I would argue it’s racist to believe race is not a social construct.
    You say, this is the meaning of race. I say it’s not. Your meaning is not scientific. But it does support your narrative. Some people who argued strenuously that someone was Black, therefore X, were Southern Democrats. You should not trust this person because they are X, which was a social construct, not a fact. The science doesn’t show up but your opinion about how people look does. What is the scientific definition of they look a certain way or are a certain shade?
    So we have systemic, you look a certain way and/or have a certain shade to your skin. Which means we have a systemic social construct. Like Trump voters are making up social constructs and Democrats are using them to save people from social constructs. We could just get rid of the social constructs. How do you save someone from a made up thing? You tell them like Biden did, You aint Black. The man’s an oracle I tell you.

    • Most Americans, and very few Democrats (aside from me — I am a registered Democrat), are aware how completely corporate America is in bed with the looters and arsonists in our cities.

      Here ( https://www.blackenterprise.com/black-lives-matter-corporate-america-has-pledged-1-678-billion-so-far/ ) is a headline that gives some clues: “Black Lives Matter: Corporate America Has Pledged $1.678 Billion So Far”.

      This is not some right-wing or GOP website: In fact, they argue that $1.67 Billion is not nearly enough.

      Our friends such as Joshua and James Cross are so clueless as not to know that this is how Cultural Revolutions work. In China, Mao felt he was losing control of the CCP in the mid-1960s, so he unleashed hapless young people to terrorize the country (and in some cases die) to reassert his supremacy over competitors within the ruling elite.

      In the same way, the oligarchs in the US today see Trump as a threat to their hegemony, and so they are using haplessly foolish young people as shock troops in the streets.

      I urge everyone to look through the list of corporations and the amounts of money: these are very big boys playing very much for real.

      Will they really donate all the money and where will it end up? My bet is that some of the BLM leaders grasp the concept of “foreign bank accounts”…

      Of course, our friends Joshua and James Cross will claim I am making this all up. Well, guys, don’t argue with me: take out your wrath on the fifty-year-old “Black Enterprise” magazine.

      From their website:
      >BLACK ENTERPRISE is the premier business, investing, and wealth-building resource for African Americans. Since 1970, BLACK ENTERPRISE has provided essential business information and advice to professionals, corporate executives, entrepreneurs, and decision makers.

      If you want to call them liars, take it up with them.

      • I heard it goes like this. It’s better for corporations to buy off BLM then to actually do something. They go along with BLM so we peons fight each other instead of looking at the corporations.
        Why should we look at corporations? I am a loyal S & P 500 investor. I like corporations and think thse in the United States should have a zero percent tax rate. They should be more libertarian. They should not have government carve out market segments for them. XCEL is a corporation. They are in bed with Greens and rolling out renewables rather than telling the government to go pound sand. What do they care? I would be encouraged if Exxon-Mobil would say, you Greens are idiots. We aint doing renewables. We will sell natural gas to you all in about 10 years when your grids are in flames though. I am a bit over weighted in Exxon-Mobil. You only live once.

  73. H/T GWPF:
    Doomsday Zealots Could Face Five Years In Jail
    https://mailchi.mp/855525386c0b/doomsday-zealots-could-face-five-years-in-jail-178402

    “UK Home Secretary threatens to change law to make Extinction Rebellion a criminal gang”

  74. H/T GWPF:

    Britain’s Net Zero Utopia Is A ‘Futile’ Exercise

    Even success would not change global trajectory of rising greenhouse gas emissions”
    https://mailchi.mp/792669881bcc/press-release-britains-net-zero-utopia-is-a-futile-exercise-178434

  75. More on the Trump campaign running out of money.

    “Five months later, Mr. Trump’s financial supremacy has evaporated. Of the $1.1 billon his campaign and the party raised from the beginning of 2019 through July, more than $800 million has already been spent. Now some people inside the campaign are forecasting what was once unthinkable: a cash crunch with less than 60 days until the election, according to Republican officials briefed on the matter”.

    • That’s good. I am looking forward to the Biden stock market surge. Accompanying the increased corporate tax rate and increased income taxes for people making more than $400,000 a year or whatever the deal is. People might actually leave the country this time when Biden is elected, to lower their taxes along with corporations leaving.

      With the implementation of the Green New Deal, people will finally be paying their fair share for transportation, heating, and electricity. I’ll be investing in firewood, candles and scooters.

      When college is free and student loans are forgiven, we’ll have the kind of quality education we get with K-12 at the college level. Colleges will decolonize everything, even themselves. I went to a land grant University. We know whose land that used to be don’t we? Colleges were built on the backs of Native Americans and it’s time to pay the piper.

      November will be Morning in America. We will be unified to fight systematic racism and corporate greed. And rich people who aren’t Democrats. Because the Democrats are mostly peaceful and they are on board. But the ones who live in the suburbs we’re not sure about? We’ll see how much they vote for unity, and it’s not so much, we’ll show them unity. Because you’re either for unity or you’re against it. And when we say we need unity, we aren’t messing around.

      But let’s be optimistic. I can see the promised land, we will get there.

  76. According to Cohen’s tell-all book, “Disloyal: A Memoir,” as reported by NBC News on Tuesday, Trump held a deep admiration for Russian leader Vladimir Putin during the 2016 presidential race, admiration that was sparked by the now-President’s infatuation with wealth and power.

    “Everyone other than the ruling class on earth was like an ant, to his way of thinking, their lives meaningless and always subject to the whims of the true rulers of the world,” Cohen wrote.

    “The cosmic joke was that Trump convinced a vast swath of working-class white folks in the Midwest that he cared about their well-being,” the former attorney added. “The truth was that he couldn’t care less.”

    • > “The cosmic joke was that Trump convinced a vast swath of working-class white folks in the Midwest that he cared about their well-being,”

      It wasn’t hard. The backlog of grievance which manifested as (misplaced) hatred of libz, Demz, and (misplaced) resentment against the perceived relative success for minorities and immigrants had been building for years.

      Trump has mined all that buildup of hatred. We can see it in these threads constantly. It’s a political ideology of hatred against what’s actually a majority of their fellow citizens. And it’s nearly matched by an equivalent hatred on the other side.

      If Trump gets re-elected, as I think he will, what comes next? We’ve survived four years but the current state really does seem pretty unsustainable. The level of hostility across partisan lines does seem worse than I’ve seen before. Some argue that it was just as bad or worse in the 60s. Maybe it was – it’s hard to measure. Then we have the response to the pandemic which in some ways heightens the need for a unified country. So maybe the context is more critical than it was in the 60s. But back then we were involved in hot wars and the cold war.

      If Biden gets elected will the current state of rancor and divisiveness diminish? Hard to say but I tend to think not. Certainly the policies for dealing with the pandemic couldn’t get any worse. Internationally, we’d probably re-invigorate our unity with our allies but could be more likely to get involved in international conflicts – hard to say as Trump’s putative anti-war stance is a false advertising campaign (troop levels are prolly higher and there has been massive wasteful spending on unneeded weapons).

      • Trump has done more to encourage manufacturing jobs back to the USA of any recent president. The tariffs on China have been highly effective in changing Chinese behavior. The Chinese now fear that companies are no longer seeing China as a preferred outsourcing destination. If Trump remains president the Chinese will make concessions on trade.

        Is there something in the US constitution that states it is a government responsibility to provide individuals healthcare? People thought we were better off before Obamacare and Trump got it repealed.

        What US president has done better with N Korea?

        When you study the US debt-study what the Fed does more than any president. Republicans are dishonest when it comes to debt management.
        Trump is imo a narcissist who happens to have good critical decision making skills. He has been overwhelmingly right on policy.

    • No James, the real Cosmic Joke is Dimowits like Biden and even a few “conservatives” conspired to move blue collar jobs to China. The working people were destitute and many turned to drugs and alcohol. They knew very well what happened to them and who did it. Trump came along and spoke the words out loud what had happened to them. They knew it was the truth. No “convincing” was needed.

      • > and even a few “conservatives” conspired to move blue collar jobs to China.

        While it’s certainly true that off-shoring and the elevation of share-holder value over good paying jobs for employees really picked up steam during Reagan’s administration and that of Bush 41, I think in general people put too much emphasis on policy and not enough on factors such as public demand for cheap goods, anti-labor sentiment, corporate greed and the excesses of over-exuberant capitalism for the relative decline in good paying jobs in American manufacturing.

        Is funny how Trump cult members seem totally uninterested in holding him accountable for the continued migration of jobs overseas, the massive growth in trade imbalance that he decries even as it balloons under his administration, and the pain that they’ve felt as the result of the counterproductive tarrifs.

        Just goes to show how powerful tribalism and appeal to hatred and partisan rancor can be. It so easily works to distract people from the causes of their concerns to instead get a cheap sense of satisfaction from hating on some “other.”. Why it even has Trump supporters (those that are experiencing economic hardship) thinking that immigrants and minorities are to blame for their economic hardships.

      • Of all the things that Trump promised and failed to deliver on, I’m not sure which is the worst – the total failure to deliver on healthcare or the failure to deliver on an infrastructure rejuvenation in this country. I mean the failure to deliver on NoKo was obviously a joke from the very start – but health-care and infrastructure were perhaps areas that he was serious about before he realized in full that he could accomplish absolutely nothing and still convince his cult members that he deserved a Nobel and enshrinement on Mt. Rushmore.

        But the infrastructure failure may be the one that hurts the most, as that could have really brought about massive improvement in people’s lives across many levels – with improved employment status certainly not being the least important.

        If Trump gets re-elected will he actually try to accomplish something on infrastructure? I can certainly hope so. Would the chances under a Biden presidency be better? He’s made some noises in that direction but I wouldn’t say he inspires a ton of confidence. It might depend on whether Pubz go back to being “concerned” about debt and deficits as they pretended to be while Obama was in office.

      • From the link:

        While the Trump administration has claimed that the era of U.S. offshoring is “over,” the reality is that the United States has not begun to address the root causes of America’s growing trade deficits and the decline of American manufacturing. Decades of trade, currency, and tax policies that incentivized offshoring, combined with an utter failure to invest adequately in infrastructure and good jobs at home, have contributed to growing inequality and an eroding middle class.

        President Trump’s erratic, ego-driven, and inconsistent trade policies have not achieved any measurable progress, despite the newly combative rhetoric. On top of that, COVID-19—and the administration’s mismanagement of the crisis—has wiped out much of the last decade’s job gains in U.S. manufacturing.

        As this policy report makes clear:

        Offshoring and the loss of manufacturing plants have continued under Trump, notwithstanding U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer’s claim that the administration’s trade policy is helping U.S. workers (Lighthizer 2020a).

        The strong and rising U.S. dollar is a major cause of the continuing growth of U.S. trade deficits.

        While manufacturing employment rose steadily between 2010 and 2019, the COVID-19 shutdown has wiped out more than half of the jobs gained in the past decade.

        The U.S. economy is in the midst of a historic collapse due to the uncontrolled coronavirus pandemic and recession.

        Restructuring and rebuilding the economy will require a coordinated and comprehensive strategic policy response that includes rebalancing of U.S. trade, as well as massive public investments in infrastructure, clean energy, training, R&D, and other industrial policies. These investments can create millions of skilled, high-wage jobs for non-college-educated workers in the U.S., who have been hard hit by the coronavirus downturn—especially Black, Latinx, and women workers—who have been left behind as manufacturing employment shrinks.

        Under current government procurement policies and trade rules, much of the public spending for infrastructure and clean energy systems would leak away to foreign providers, in the form of increased imports. Thus, new public investments should all include strong “Buy America” clauses.
        Joe Biden has recently proposed major investments in infrastructure, climate, and rebuilding manufacturing. These proposals could make a substantial contribution to meeting U.S. investment needs and generating a strong, sustainable, broadly shared recovery.

        https://www.epi.org/publication/reshoring-manufacturing-jobs/

    • James Cross:

      “The cosmic joke was that Trump convinced a vast swath of working-class white folks in the Midwest that he cared about their well-being,” the former attorney added. “The truth was that he couldn’t care less.”

      One of the reasons I hang out here is because I learn so much. His statement is true. And it applies to the Democrats as well.

      The cosmic joke was that Biden convinced a vast swath of working-class Black folks in the cities that he cared about their well-being. The truth was that he couldn’t care less.

      The reason for TDS is people look at Trump and realize they are looking into a mirror. They end up attacking themselves. They have to prove to themselves, they are not Trump, the very thing they see in the mirror. It’s bad.

      The Rednecks know they are getting conned. The rest of you all are just figuring it out.

      • Ragnaar –

        > The cosmic joke was that Biden convinced a vast swath of working-class Black folks in the cities that he cared about their well-being. The truth was that he couldn’t care less.

        Good point. Black people are too stupid to see through the ruse, as you do. How did you get to be so much smarter than they? Is it genetic?

        Maybe if you continue to explain to black people that they have no agency and are stupid behavior they only do as Demz tell them to do, you can get them to come around despite their inferior influence? Keep trying. The strategy has worked so well so far!

      • Josh, Minorities are increasingly leaving the Democratic Party, many blame Democratic plantation politics as among the reasons. They don’t need white elites continually lying to them; telling them they have agency only when they agree with Democrats, otherwise they’re uncle —-. Many see the lies that Democrats have told over decades, yet not much has moved the needle to improve their lives. Many clearly see the condescension behind identity politics. But pandering can only last for so long, Josh, before the Democrats underlying distortion field becomes increasingly obvious. When the ramification from the insidious nature of the Lefts propaganda comes due.

        But it appears Josh doesn’t believe there’s such a thing as identity politics. He clearly believes minorities aren’t smart enough to see this brand of manipulative racist politics; that targeted demographics don’t have the agency to see themselves being played.

        The reason there’s a breakdown in monolithic support of Democrats by minorities, and them leaving the Democratic Party is that they have agency, Josh. Not the kind you like. Deal with it.

        It’s no wonder so many snowflakes blanket the land, it’s what Democratic snow jobs produce.

      • Trunks –

        > Minorities are increasingly leaving the Democratic Party,…Many see the lies that Democrats have told over decades,..

        Some 25% of black voters identify as conservative and some 43% identity as moderate, and yet just 4 years ago some 90% of them voted for Clinton, who was a highly unpopular candidate.

        So despite not being terribly ideologically aligned with the Democratic Party, only a very small proportion of black voters fit with your cult group delusion.

        We’ll see what happens in two months. Your boy has been working overtime to convince black voters that he’s their guy. But in polling in July, some 11% of black people said that they didn’t think that Trump is a racist.

        He promised that 95% would be voting for him in 2020. Who knows, maybe he’ll hit the mark, eh? So that would mean a while lot of black people voting for someone they think is a racist.

        Or maybe he won’t hit the mark but Republicans will nonetheless continue to think that telling black voters they’re too st*pid to know what’s in their best interests, and that instead of voting for Democrats they should vote for who their betters tell them would be a better choice, is a winning political strategy.

      • I saw you unpacking the script, Josh. Indeed, we’ll see if Trump gets better than 8% of the black vote; breaking your implicit best case stat of an 11% ceiling. There are other demographic stats that favor Trump among blacks, maybe you’ve heard.

      • trunks –

        I just did a Google and it seems that Hurd was the last black Pub in the House… Is that true?

        So here’s a thought. Maybe instead of telling black people they’re too stupid to know who to vote for in their best interest, Pubz should try to get a few more black Republicans to run for Congress. One black person in the entire Pub legislature might not be all that convincing. Since there’s such a stampede of black people leaving the Demz to joint the Pubz, it shouldn’t be all that difficult.

      • trunks –

        Trump won a lower % of the Black and Hispanic vote (roughly equivalent % of the black vote) of any candidate in the last 40 years. I would be hard for him to do any worse.

      • Your yuuugely great POTUS Donald J. Trump won more than 8% of the black vote in 2016. The pre-election and exit polls were BS. How many black folks are going to tell some clown on the phone or in the street outside the polling place that they voted for Trump? This and worse is what they face if found out:

      • We’ll see if Trump does better than 11%. No points for being unnecessarily anal, Josh.

      • “The Rednecks know they are getting conned. The rest of you all are just figuring it out.”

        Yeah, but conned about what? This redneck never thought he’d deport every illegal and build a wall across the entire southern border. But watching Democrats announce that they were the open-borders fans we always knew they were was illuminating. And we got to have a discussion that was a long time coming after being furiously buried by our politicians and media- illegal immigration from the southern border has been staggeringly huge over the last 30 years, should it continue? Based on the Democrats rapid flip flop on open borders we have reached bi-partisan agreement on the question.

        Trade and taxes? Lowest unemployment rate in history. Enough said.

        People are rioting in the streets in blue cities because their school systems didn’t educate anyone for the last 30 years, their sanctuary city and economic policies made blue collar jobs pay less and be harder to find, and their spending priorities left the cities bankrupt (Chicago enacted a record tax increase to cover the cost of retired city employees- city residents are paying more for less). Now the only thing the Democrats can think to offer is a return to the 1990s murder rates, slower growth in jobs and the sad myth that the reason minorities are broke, uneducated, and unemployed in blue cities is because the America of red states is “racist.”

      • Don –

        So glad that we have a black person whisperer to tell us what black people really think. Or at least what they tell you when they say you’re real cool for talking about “folks” and “bros” and aren’t laughing at you behind your back.

      • I grew up black, joshie. I know what the average brother in the street would do with you. But you are too smart to go there.

      • J:

        “Black people are too stupid to see through the ruse, as you do.”

        Rednecks are too stupid to see through the ruse Trump is running on them.

        I am equating Rednecks to Blacks. If that isn’t progress, I’ll go back my University and take some more classes.

        I think the libertarians say something like this: Can’t you see the government isn’t really helping you? Both the Democrats and the Trump are selling that, that they are helping whomever.

        I doesn’t matter if your Black or some Redneck sitting in the deerstand cursing President Obama’s existence. The government isn’t going to save you.

        It’s a noble goal to save the family farm. Does it work? No. Ethanol was a noble plan. Did that work? We keep carrying it along and there are costs exceeding benefits.

        About a week after the Minneapolis riots, Eric Weinstein was trying help. He said to the Blacks, We chose not to play the oppression Olympics. His people had every right to do so, but they didn’t. And of course, he has no standing either. And should not comment. What do you think he would have said to the Rednecks if asked?

        Do we play that game? We can construct all kinds of things around that game. See many Universities. We can have government administer the game.

      • Don –

        They’re laughing at you behind your back. Black people are used to white people who want to act cool. They know how to handle you. They probably care about you and don’t want to hurt your feelings, so they don’t laugh to your face.

      • You are really agitated about my relationship with the black folks, joshie. It even makes you angry for me to call them “folks”. What could be your problem? Still mad about Crown Heights? I thought you were liberal, joshie. This kind of foolishness is why nobody here takes you seriously.

      • “I think the libertarians say something like this: Can’t you see the government isn’t really helping you? Both the Democrats and the Trump are selling that, that they are helping whomever.”

        Almost. One step further. Libertarians and most “rednecks” don’t want the government to “save them” they want the government to do the basic job – defense of the nation, control of the border, control of crime. Then comes the things they don’t want the government to do- over tax or over regulate the economy, incentivize offshoring jobs with lopsided tariffs.
        Even the most communal, egalitarian tribe of humans understood all of these basic responsibilities and, until today, they have been uncontroversial since the dawn of recorded history.
        Libertarians and rednecks understood this was what Trump was offering. So did CNN, which is why they went bonkers.

      • UK-Weather Lass

        ‘People are rioting in the streets in blue cities because their school systems didn’t educate anyone for the last 30 years’

        As this quote from Jeffnsails850 puts it, we were so busy avoiding ‘making mistakes’, making everyone ‘the same;, trying to be ‘inoffensive and inclusive’, trying to work out what equality really can mean, that we forgot that its our tesponsibility to bring children out in education and not to indoctrinate them.

  77. Old loser Hillary spent twice as much as Trump in 2016. The almost totally Hillary supporting media’s shameless promotion of the old corrupt thing and their savaging of Trump was worth $billion$. Or was it? Trump is your POTUS and Hillary is a bitter loser.

    No amount of old sleepy senile joe’s campaign spending, shameless media bias and liars coming out of the woodwork with fake news hit jobs can defame and denigrate POTUS Trump any more than has already been done. It ain’t working. Donald J. Trump will be your POTUS, Commander in Chief and Most Powerful Man in the World, until January 20, 2025.

  78. 30% lower risk of death in patients receiving HCQ

    https://www.ejinme.com/article/S0953-6205(20)30335-6/fulltext

    Results
    Out of 3,451 COVID-19 patients, 76.3% received HCQ. Death rates (per 1,000 person-days) for patients receiving or not HCQ were 8.9 and 15.7, respectively. After adjustment for propensity scores, we found 30% lower risk of death in patients receiving HCQ (HR=0.70; 95%CI: 0.59 to 0.84; E-value=1.67). Secondary analyses yielded similar results. The inverse association of HCQ with inpatient mortality was particularly evident in patients having elevated C-reactive protein at entry.

  79. Russia’s State TV Calls Trump Their ‘Agent’

    Russian commentators note, rightly, that “sooner or later, the Democrats will come back into power,” and they’re already joking about offering Trump asylum.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/russias-state-tv-calls-trump-their-agent?ref=home

    • Other than being from 2019, a cute article. Who said Rooooskies had no sense of humor.

    • Joe - the non socialist/non marxist

      Gotta wonder why the Russians would want trump as president

      Its not like the russians hadnt already bought off HRC , just look at the uranium one deal

    • The Russians are coming! The Russians are coming!

      Let’s all hide under our beds!

      Or at least cover our heads with our pillows!

      [end snark] James Cross, I actually thought you were smarter than that. You really still believe that Trump is a Russian agent?? In which case, I have a bridge over the Mississippi I’d like to sell you.

      Вы понимаете, товарищ? (Yes, I actually do read and speak some Russian. And I used to do work for the US Intelligence Community. Which makes me….)

      • Actually the Russians are already here. They’ve been financing the Trumps for the last decade or more.

        Eric Trump:

        “Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ I said, ‘Really?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.’”

        https://thehill.com/homenews/news/332270-eric-trump-in-2014-we-dont-rely-on-american-banks-we-have-all-the-funding-we

      • I’m pretty skeptical of some of the Russia stuff – but this pretty interesting:

        -snip-
        Woodward writes that Coats “continued to harbor the secret belief, one that had grown rather than lessened, although unsupported by intelligence proof, that Putin had something on Trump.” Woodward continues, writing that Coats felt, “How else to explain the president’s behavior? Coats could see no other explanation.”
        -snip-

        Insider in the administration, insider in the intelligence community.

      • The soyboy surrogates for old senile sleepy joe have some great Russia Russia stories. Quoting alleged conversations without any attribution, digging up old senile Bob “TDS” Woodward trying to reclaim some fame mindreading somebody mindreading somebody else. Let’s have another impeachment with this new “evidence”.

        They forgot to mention the time Trump was caught on a hot mic telling Putin’s underboss:

        “Tell Vladdy that after I am re-elected he can take over the world. Start with Ukraine. I would suggest Crimea, first. If he wants to help Assad slaughter the Syrian people send troops, missiles, planes. Gas the ____ out of ’em! We will mess around in Libya or somewhere and pretend we don’t notice. You want all our uranium, we’ll talk. Just help me out against this Mormon reactionary. If you get caught, I’ll wink and tell you to cut it out. He, he.”

      • Don –

        Oh. “They did it first.”

        Neved seen that before. How original!

        Trump’s DNI for two years, Republican Senator for 16, says after those two years in the inside its hard for him to explain Trump’s attitude towards Russia.

        But sure, it couldn’t have anything to do with Trump’s long-standing business interests in Russia and long-standing involvement with Russia oligarchs.

        And you know this because…um…TDS! TDS!

        I personally think a some of the Russia rhetoric is over the top and not well-supported… but yeah, his former DNI saying something like that might mean something.

        Next you’re going to tell me you believe Trump doesn’t release his taxes because he’s under audit.

        Lol

        Trump cult in action.

        Thanks for making my point.

      • Don –

        Fauci said your cult leader’s attention span is a negative number.

      • Went to moderation, joshie. It’s just the usual slap upside your little head.

      • Trump just said he saved 2 million people.

      • Oops. 2.5 million, “maybe more.”

      • Some of the original estimates of potential deaths from Red China CCP Wuhan Bat Soup virus were in the millions. Prove that POTUS Donald the Miracle Worker didn’t save 2-3 million. Remember when Saint Barry Soetero solemnly proclaimed that Trump would require the aid of a magic wand to make the economy boom? BOOM! Donald’s got the magic wand. He saved 2+ million, at least.

        The left loons want to blame 200,000 deaths mostly in Democrat jurisdictions on POTUS. Other side of that coin is he saved a couple million. It’s a wash. Trump wins election, left loons cry their wicked eyes out.

        In the meantime, little Fauci debunks shameless fake news Woodward lies:

      • Don –

        OK then. So the thousands of times your fellow cult members were in here saying that the 2 million + number was just a lefty plot to scare people so they could take away freedoms and make people wears masks, and so they could steal the election from Trump, you were in here correcting their misunderstanding.

        And I just missed it.

        Sorry. I didn’t realize you had done that.

      • And thanks for making my point by posting Fauci’s non-denial denial.

      • You are just making a fool of yourself here, as usual. Why don’t you get one of those little toy bullhorns from your local left loon rioters supply depot and get out there in the streets with your comrades harassing diners. Better go up to Manhattan. Down in your shady AOC hood, you will get ktfo.

      • Joshua wrote:
        >Actually the Russians are already here. They’ve been financing the Trumps for the last decade or more.

        >Eric Trump:

        >“Well, we don’t rely on American banks. We have all the funding we need out of Russia.’ I said, ‘Really?’ And he said, ‘Oh, yeah. We’ve got some guys that really, really love golf, and they’re really invested in our programs. We just go there all the time.’”

        So, if it turned out that Trump had received finance from some Jewish bankers at some point (probably did at one time or another), would that prove that Trump was a tool of the Zionist Occupied Government (ZOG)?

        What you claim is equivalent.

        I think you stand revealed as a bigot. Вы понимаете, товарищ?

      • Joshua wrote:
        >Trump’s DNI for two years, Republican Senator for 16, says after those two years in the inside its hard for him to explain Trump’s attitude towards Russia.

        >But sure, it couldn’t have anything to do with Trump’s long-standing business interests in Russia and long-standing involvement with Russia oligarchs.

        Or just maybe Trump made the mistake of appointing a warmongering neocon as his DNI? Kinda like Crazy John Bolton?

        The neocons may be subhuman scum, but they really do believe in the murderous venom they spew. And Dan Coats was never the sharpest knife in the drawer — he no doubt really did lack the intellectual capacity to understand why Trump dissented from the neocon consensus.

        But there are lots of obvious reasons:

        The Cold War is over, the Soviet Union is gone, and Marxism-Leninism lives on mainly in American universities — a threat to the USA but not via Russia.

        Peace is good.

        We spend way too much money on the military.

        Our European allies also think peace in Europe is really good.

  80. From the British Daily Mail a couple weeks ago ( https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-8667833/DOMINIC-SANDBROOK-Washington-DC-diner-tormented-Black-Lives-Matter-mob.html ):

    >”The footage could hardly be more chilling, like something from the wilder fringes of Hollywood’s dystopian imagination.

    >”A woman sits at a table, recoiling in fear. She is penned in, surrounded by a mob of masked men and women, their clenched fists raised menacingly in the air.

    >”Again and again the rhythmic chants go up: ‘White silence is violence! No justice, no peace!’ The woman shrinks further back in her chair. The mob moves in. Some of them lean into her face. They stand over her, fists raised, shrieking and shouting, demanding that she too raises her arm in salute.

    >”On and on it goes. Nobody comes to her defence. It’s an awful scene, reminiscent of the street scenes in Germany in the spring of 1933, when Nazi thugs demanded that ordinary people raise their arms in homage to Hitler.

    >”But this is not Germany in 1933, and neither is it some overwrought science-fiction vision of the future. This was Washington DC, one of the great capitals of the democratic West, just two days ago.

    >”The woman’s name was Lauren Victor, and her crime was to have been spotted having dinner outside a Washington restaurant. The mob were, inevitably, Black Lives Matter protesters, roaming the streets of the US capital during their latest demonstrations about alleged police brutality towards black Americans.

    >”According to an appalled reporter from the Washington Post, the predominantly white activists were trying to force ordinary diners to raise their fists and join in with their chants. Miss Victor, an urban planner, said no.

    >”Ironically, it turns out she had previously been on Black Lives Matter marches herself, but now she just wanted to have her dinner in peace. ‘It didn’t feel right,’ she said afterwards, adding that she felt ‘under attack’.”

    There is a video with the article, which I strongly urge everyone to watch.

  81. The UK IEA has put out a brief paper on pandemic policy by Mark Pennington. He argues that ” In the final analysis, ‘what cannot be known, cannot be planned for’ (Hayek 1988), suggesting we should be wary of granting authority to political agencies that seek to justify their assumption of new powers on the basis of highly uncertain assessments of future risks. If there is reason to doubt the efficacy of a directive intelligence engaging in strategic risk planning then the most effective and multipurpose ‘insurance policy’ that might be adopted for the broadest range of future risks is to sustain robust levels of economic growth. The resources generated by such growth may provide resilience against risks from multiple directions.”

    He concludes: ” This paper has used Hayek’s distinction between simple and complex systems to illustrate the character of the coronavirus policy challenge and the relative lack of mechanisms to enable policymakers to learn which responses may be most effective. While the analysis is consistent with an endorsement of emergency government action in response to the pandemic, the argument suggests that there are precious few mechanisms that enable policymakers to identify the most effective options. In turn, the paper has argued that this may be a general characteristic of large-scale public decision-making procedures and demonstrates the importance of returning to a predominantly market-based political economy at the earliest possible convenience.”

    In respect of potentially dangerous global warming, I’ve argued for 20 years that the future is unknown, it will always surprise us, and that the best approach is to increase our capacity to deal with whatever future emerges; we’ve since had the GFC and the current pandemic, which I think proves my point. Pennington argues against reliance on experts in a certain field when the issue has much wider ramifications that are beyond those experts’ scope. Worth a read – you can download the paper here: https://iea.org.uk/publications/the-response-to-the-pandemic-a-hayekian-view/

    • “what cannot be known, cannot be planned for’ (Hayek 1988), suggesting we should be wary of granting authority to political agencies that seek to justify their assumption of new powers on the basis of highly uncertain assessments of future risks.”

      There’s wonderful logic, insight, and consideration in totality of your post.
      Unfortunately, what we’re witnessing is opportunism for smash and grab, both literally, and more damaging figuratively speaking, in political context. COVID is context for an excuse, an opening to bankrupt capitalism for those Marx lovers who want top down command and control governance, and not a market-based political economy. Come to think of it, the same politically motivated forces are behind the contrivances of AGW policy; they always go for big emotional appeals abundantly dipped in drama. I do share your sensibilities and considerations.

  82. TOP TRUMP Donald Trump nominated for 2021 Nobel Peace Prize for ‘historic peace agreement’ between Israel and UAE

    https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/12621940/trump-nominated-nobel-prize-historic-peace-deal-israel-uae/

  83. I believe that people who have no idea what they’re talking about write comments at this site saying that Covid is much more deadly for children than the seasonal flu. People who don’t know what they’re talking about and are confident in that belief should look at the following:

    -snip-
    Conclusions and Relevance In this cohort study of US children with COVID-19 or seasonal influenza, there was no difference in hospitalization rates, intensive care unit admission rates, and mechanical ventilator use between the 2 groups. More patients hospitalized with COVID-19 than with seasonal influenza reported clinical symptoms at the time of diagnosis.
    -snip-

    https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2770250

    • Your article says nothing about deaths among children with Covid. Some will get sick, almost none will die. It’s not a big problem. Children get sick from various causes all the time. You scored an own goal, congratulations!

      • Joe - the non epidemiologist

        A key to understanding and grasping the conclusions in any study is to be able to recognize the limitations in the data along with biases in the study .

        The first and obvious limitation in the data is that it is limited to individuals admitted to hospitals, thereby distorting the sample. It is known that asymptomatic rates in youth are much higher with covid, than with the flu.

        joshua knows that –

      • > Some will get sick, almost none will die. It’s not a big problem.

        Some 500,000k have already been infected:

        Click to access AAP%20and%20CHA%20-%20Children%20and%20COVID-19%20State%20Data%20Report%209.3.20%20FINAL.pdf

        The fatality rate in children seems very low, they comprise only around @ 0.07% of the deaths from Covid.

        But we don’t as of yet have any good idea of long-term sequelae from infection in children. Saying it’s “not a big problem” is a value judgement, and at any rate it’s also premature to draw any conclusions.

        The other issue, of course, is that when children get infected other people get infected, including many grandparents who live in multi-generational households or who are primary caregivers for their grandchildren.

        And, of course, those demographics show a racial/ethnic signal.

    • Fair enough –

      If I’m not mistaken, there have been people posting here confidently asserting that the outcomes for children from an covid infection are much less serious than being infected with the flu.

      I provide a link to that article because it helps to make it clear that people should be careful about pontificating on this issue when they don’t know what they’re talking about.

      It’s one study. The one study rule applies. The study has limitations.

      But the study helps to illustrate why people who don’t know what they’re talking about should think twice about talking about things where they don’t know what they’re talking about

      • It was estimated that some 477 children died from the flu in 2018-19, a season

        So far, it is estimated that some 103 have died from Covid. It could well be that once all the info is in, Covid will be equally fatal to children as the seasonal flu, and it’s also quite possible that the health outcomes among those children who are infected but don’t die are considerably worse.

      • Stay tuned, Nic has a blog post on children and Covid coming later today

    • Joshua wrote:
      >I believe that people who have no idea what they’re talking about write comments at this site saying that Covid is much more deadly for children than the seasonal flu.

      Did you mean the opposite of what you wrote? In light of your further comments, you seem to want to criticize those who claim Covid is much LESS deadly than the flu.

  84. This is why I love the Trump cult:

    -snip-

    “I think it became clear that the human transmission was greater than originally thought,” Graham told CNN.

    “So when the President shutdown the economy in March I think that was a bold decision because he took the hottest economy in decades and shut it down. I think that was the decision of consequence, shutting the economy down.” (The White House left the decisions to states to decide whether to shut down their economies.)

    Graham added: “I don’t think he needs to go on TV and screaming we’re all going to die.”

    Asked again if he was OK with Trump admitting that he played down the threat, Graham said: “His actions of shutting the economy down were the right actions. I think the tone during that time sort of spoke for itself. People knew it was serious”

    -snip-

    So the Trump cult sayz that shutting down the economy causes needless pain and suffering and death. But Trump’s decisive a to shut down the economy saved 5 million lives.

    But Trump just listened to the experts.

    But Trump is a genius because he doesn’t listen to the experts and just goes with his stable genius gut instincts.

    And Trump is a genius because he trolls the media and gets them to xrrixizoae him.

    But Trump is a victim of the media because they criticize him.

    And there is no Trump cult.

    I love me some Trump cult.

    • One side tries to carry Trump across the finish line and the other Biden. But only their side is a cult. Both sides court the middle like a bunch of Moonies in an airport.

      • Ragnaar –

        > But only their side is a cult.

        Of course there’s an element of that, as there always is – but the question is whether this case there is a difference in scale that becomes a meaningful distinction. Enough to distinguish between a cult of personality and more typical partisan favoritism or selectivity

        In other words, a good comparison might be whether there is a difference between support for Bush when he was in office among his partisans than the type of support that we see now for Trump among his partisans. Trump’s supporters, of course, would consider their level of support only commensurate with the scale of his genius.

        I think that there is a difference of scale big enough to become a difference of kind. Although I agree it’s a question worth considering.

      • “…hypocrisy and illogic…”
        Trump is a politician. I admit it. He has voters who vote for politicians. I admit that.

  85. Trump is off the scale not worthy of the office.
    Biden is terrible – but very marginally less wretched than Trump.
    Trump should and will lose .

    • another pathetic victim of left loon fake news

    • The election is not really Biden vs. Trump.

      It is Round 2 of the class war between the productive people in American society and the parasitic verbalist overclass.

      The majority of the productive class has decided that the dominant faction in the Democratic Party truly hates them — “deplorables” and all that (and I am a registered Democrat — I supported Howard Dean as long ago as 2004).

      Read Michael Lind’s book The New Class War: Saving Democracy From the Managerial Elite, which I described above (“overclass” is Lind’s term). Lind is a harsh critic of Trump, but he is clear-eyed in seeing the class war that is now engulfing the USA and much of Europe.

      • They have missed the target. Once you take away Trump, the problems remain. While both parties favor the elites (Country Club Republicans) the Democrats have it worse. And Republicans will continue to play the, Your a bunch of elites card.

        The elites have too much power. The hierarchies are unstable as they’re too steep. Hillary Clinton lacked vision and could not see this. The riots eventually ended up the Mayors houses. Who then tried to argue, it’s not this hiearchy, it’s the one with Trump at the top of it. It’s the one with all the White Nationalists at the top which of course was B.S. They tried to disown the fact that they were at the top of the relevant hierarchy. And that they had lost sight of what was going on in their kingdom.

        So what is the wise course? Let the bad hierarchies fail or prop them up? The struggles are as old as time.

  86. Joshua wrote way up above:
    >It will be interesting to see whether, if Trump loses (which I think prolly isn’t going to happen…

    Well, Trump will “win” on election night, but, as I mentioned above, once the Democrats (remember: I am a registered Democrat) start “finding” votes on subsequent days (not to mention rioting in the streets), I am confident that Trump will be forced out of office. Never underestimate my party’s ability to steal an election!

    Josh also wrote up above:
    > I’m actually for the first time in my life concerned that the extremism of a 2nd Trump term, and that the resulting atomization of our societal cohesion, will turn loose some very dark forces in this country.

    By “atomization,” I take it you mean that ordinary productive Americans have finally gotten sick of being exploited by the parasitic verbalist overclass?

    No matter who wins, the class war continues. Until the existing ruling elite has been overthrown, there can be no harmony. “No justice, no peace.”

    Josh also wrote:
    >[F]or the first time ever I actually think that the mitigating and dampening influences of our institutional norms (even as they lead to mediocrity) may be overmatched by a kind of extremism which is exacerbated by the new social media environment.

    It is this sort of talk about “institutional norms” that got Trump elected. Somehow, “institutional norms” — not actually written down anywhere or adopted by the American people — always seem to benefit the overclaas and never the American people. I have in mind, for example, the “norm” that “politics stops at the water’s edge,” which prevents serious debate over foreign policy and leads to rabid denunciations of anyone like Trump who suggests we can bring the troops home.

    No, Josh, I do not think you are going to like the next couple decades, regardless of who wins.

    At least, I hope not.

    • >Well, Trump will “win” on election night, but, as I mentioned above, once the Democrats (remember: I am a registered Democrat) start “finding” votes on subsequent days (not to mention rioting in the streets), I am confident that Trump will be forced out of office. Never underestimate my party’s ability to steal an election!

      This seems to be the most talked about scenario but what I think could happen would be the opposite and that would be amusing.

      Biden wins election night and Trump to forced to appeal to the counting of the mail in votes. That would be hilarious since he has already declared they are likely to be fraudulent.

  87. Bret and Heather 43rd DarkHorse Podcast Livestream: War is 93% Peace

    Trump is going to win handily. About 39:30. Also, Trump is a Savant.

    This is not sarcasm. I try to get both sides which isn’t easy for me to do. This is probably the most left podcast I watch.

    Earlier Eric talks about making your state or city attractive to all the companies fleeing the woke madness. SoDak is running ads doing that I noticed. Go Rednecks.

  88. Critical Race Theory. You’re a racist. And if you aren’t a racist, you are. But I am not a racist, even if I am a racist. There’s a certain elegance to it.

    The Republicans are cowed by the theory, and the Democrats that we mostly see are mostly for it. So it’s a case of case of the Republicans being the least worst choice. Which is their selling point.

  89. Fans boo Chiefs, Texans players during moment of silence at NFL opener
    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chiefs-texans-fans-booing-nfl-opener-moment-silence/
    Not understanding your customers isn’t always fatal. It’s less than ideal.

    “The NFL has pledged $250 million over 10 years to combat systemic racism.”
    I would argue this is their fans money. Though some of it is the owner’s money. And the players are free to donate their own money to wherever.

    I could not have told you that the Chiefs were the Super Bowl Champs. I can tell you when the Super Bowl comes to your state, they’ll shake down the government for things like sales tax breaks. The bars in Minneapolis were mostly empty when they showed up. They all just make up the economic projections and rationalize the government kicking in. And the Super Bowl is a reward for building a taxpayer subsidized stadium. Pork.

    • I am so glad to see team sports in decline. Should choke off the supply of young people filling the ranks of the military over time and considering the low standards we have now you can see why we need the Ghost 4 by billionaire Palmer Luckey (Facebook/Oculus, and #1 MAGA guy).
      https://www.cnet.com/news/palmer-luckey-ghost-4-military-drones-can-swarm-into-an-ai-surveillance-system/
      And since it’s AI it can be programed to eliminate perceived threats with or without racial bias!

      • “AMERICANS LOVE their military, and Americans love their sports. The parallel between those attachments is irresistible. Here are two cultures bound by rule and hierarchy, animated by youth and steeped in history. They both work in teams, train relentlessly and thrive on aggression. Both apply strategy and, to varying degrees, force, in pursuit of a common goal: victory. “Sports and military,” says outgoing Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus, “have been close for a long, long time now.””
        The above is not my target. We should have the best military people. High Schools are folding to the safety culture. Is sports racist?
        My issue is with major league sports getting subsidies and folding when we need them to push back.

  90. As if US politics needed a new battleground, it’s got one anyway – pedophilia. The new film “Cuties” is about 11 year old girls being hyper sexualised and being groomed for twerking and erotic dancing. Bizarrely it has become a new cause celebre of the Democrats and the left. They effusively praise it for being about overcoming racism since some of the child-porn performers are coloured. Any who take issue with the too-early sexualisation of children are written off as “far-right”. To have any problem with the child porn film “Cuties” is to be far right (and thus have no voice)? A remarkable political landscape indeed!

    https://www.rt.com/op-ed/500507-cuties-review-culture-war-fight/

    • Strange, I could see nothing about Democrats or “the left” in that report from Russia Today! Except maybe as an opinion, very concealed – an opinion concerning Richard Brody of the New Yorker.
      It seems that politics these days is just a matter of claims without evidence and insults about your opponents. When was the last time a head of government/the country was so eager to belittle others like Trump does. The opposition politicians (Democrats) are not so willing to be dragged down to that level, which is good but maybe the new politics is about insults and angry words – until people start to get killed and we return to our senses? Dangerous times which need voices of reason. Not many visible on here.

  91. -snip-

    Since Donald Trump took office as president, the image of the United States has suffered across many regions of the globe. As a new 13-nation Pew Research Center survey illustrates, America’s reputation has declined further over the past year among many key allies and partners. In several countries, the share of the public with a favorable view of the U.S. is as low as it has been at any point since the Center began polling on this topic nearly two decades ago.

    -snip-

    But the cult thinks everything just peachy.

    • Thank heavens!

      The American leader should worry about doing what is right for Americans, not impressing random people abroad.

      And if they think less of us, just maybe they will stop expecting us to provide for their defense, to eliminate every petty little dictatorship that is no threat to us, etc.

      You just do not get it, do you, Joshua?

      Those of us who are not Trump-haters want an end to the American Empire.

      We want to live in a normal country, not the World Hegemon.

      No, you never will get it.

      You’re too in love with the overclass.

      • That’s funny about a “normal country”.

        I guess that means one run by a strong man and a small group of rich oligarchs dedicated to making the world richer for themselves.

      • Also succeeded in getting the lowest levels of minority unemployment in history

      • > The American leader should worry about doing what is right for Americans, not impressing random people abroad.

        Binary thinking of pay off the reason that our status has lowered, among allies as well as the world’s more generally. Doing what is right for Americans, and American standing among our allies and people in the world more generally, have a long history of NOT being mutually exclusive, but instead coupled with each other.

        > And if they think less of us, just maybe they will stop expecting us to provide for their defense, to eliminate every petty little dictatorship that is no threat to us, etc.

        Again, binary thinking. Helping to provide for the defense of other counties is large component of what enabled the US to build its economic health to sustain a high standard of living domestically, as well as build economic preeminence globally.

        > You just do not get it, do you, Joshua?

        Again, from the fella who objects to my supposedly constant use of ad homs. Lol.

        > Those of us who are not Trump-haters want an end to the American Empire.

        >> We want to live in a normal country, not the World Hegemon.

        Hegemonic foreign policy lowers our status around the world, as we saw with Iraq. So does incompetence, as we see with how we’ve handled to pandemic.

        > You’re too in love with the overclass.

        So here we have an interesting insight into the views of a Trump cult member. We see this sense of aggrievement that Trump has tapped into successfully – where I become someone who is “in love with the overclass” despite never having been a member of that class or remotely “in love” with it. Binary thinking is one of the multipliers that can be used to weaponize self-victimization into such a distorted view. If I disagree with Dave, by they power of identity-defense and identity-aggression, I become one among a hated “other.” That form of identity politics is a useful tool that Trump can use for his political expediency.

        But leveraging polarization and division comes at a cost, domestically as well as internationally, but particularly domestically. While international cooperation and international institutions have been key ingredients for expanding our welfare in the past, domestic cooperation and unity (such as it has existed) and domestic institutional stability (such as it had existed) have been necessary and fundamental ingredients for building and sustaining our welfare, domestically.

        Apparently for some, interestingly those who have long held the upper hand during a period of relative domestic unity, feel aggrieved that their elevated status – relatice to their fellow Americans – is no longer guaranteed as a birthright. They are determined to lash out from their sense of aggrievement, under the banner of a huckster populist who was born with a silver spoon in his mouth, to think they can “make America great again” by the sheer force of their resentment. They ignore the systematic dismantling of institutions like unions, to believe they think they can go backwards and “make America great again,” ironically by systematically dismantling the domestic and international institutions, and principles, upon which American leadership and their quality of life previously rested.

        This cult of personality, where a “[big daddy autocrat] alone can fix it” is not a new phenomenon in world history. History is littered with this pattern of “leadership, ” where leaders promise a return to once greatness by offering the demonization of scapegoats domestic and international while tearing down the institutional obstacles to their own grandiose self-concept. And so far, Trump has been successful in leveraging partisanship, and division, and hatred, and self-victimization, and a sense aggrievement in his pursuit of the banal aims of any politician. A many believe that his aims are not the self-centered aims of any politician, but instead that he’s a champion for a future that is in their best interests. And he may well rise that wave further into the future. But at some point there will be a reckoning and the country that got caught up in the momentum will have to look around and pick up the pieces and try to rebuild a more sustainable society.

      • Binary thinking that is part of the reason why our status has been lowered….

      • “I think he’s a kook. I think he’s crazy. I think he’s unfit for office.”

        Lindsey Graham, 2016

      • Paraphrasing (of all people) Ted Cruz.

        There are millions of angry people in this country, and Donald is cynically exploiting that anger and lying to his supporters (who are the type of hard working people that he conceives of with contempt) :

      • The chastened Lindsey and Teddy have recovered from their TDS and will soon be voting for an honorable MAGA lady Justice of the SCOTUS to replace the recently deceased left loon political operative, who wanted the U.S. to be like The Socialist Utopian Republic of South Africa.

        Meanwhile, near the dingy little rent controlled studio apartment of our resident left loon agitator, the downtrodden natives are getting MAGA woke:

      • Don –

        > The chastened Lindsey and Teddy have recovered from their TDS…

        Thanks, once again, for demonstrating my point.

        Only a cultist could see Lindsey and Ted’s display of craven hypocrisy, for the sake of self-serving political expediency, and see it as a “recovery” from some sort diminished state of non-membership in the cult.

        Anyone not in the cult is, by definition, in a state of delusion..

        The very picture of someone in the thrall of a cult of personality.

      • Cut out the hysterical self-righteous BS, joshie. I won’t bother to find some video of Camela Harris savaging her running-mate old sleepy senile racist joe, during the (D)-Marxist primaries. You dummies will still vote for that doofus duo.

        Calling Trump voters cultists, deplorables, racists whatever is not working for you shameless hypocrites. The left loon (D)-Marxists need to convince the electorate that you can govern better than the too often stupid and silly, POTUS Donald J. Trump. Your problem is the guy despite his deficiencies has the right instincts and the right policies. He’s engaging, he’s likable and he’s a fighter. He’s got heart. He’s a winner. You (D)-Marxists are soulless incompetent losers.

        Is that your point?

      • As Don points out:
        Kamala Harris. With how they tried to MeToo Justice K, and then let Joe Biden off of the hook in the face of I think more credible information. Maybe Cruz sees it this way. Trump won. Move forward. President Obama won. I moved forward.

      • “I guess that means one run by a strong man and a small group of rich oligarchs dedicated to making the world richer for themselves.”
        Replace Trump with Biden, same situation. How much are the Obama’s worth do you think? The contributions money is with the Democrats. They became Country Club Republicans. They aren’t very good golfers though.

      • They aren’t as driven by the kind of antipathy that you express in each of your comments, with the constant “loons” or TDS – clearly because you’ve got nothing else other than your antipathy.

        That’s the same kind of antipathy that led Dave to argue that “the working class” supports Trump while leaving out the high % of the working class, who disproportionately comprise the working class, and are minorities who disproportionately reject Trump.

        Yes, Trump is good a getting support from many people who are triggered by their empathy for their fellow Americans.

        But there are other Trump supporters who aren’t the cult members of which I speak. Not all those who will vote for Trump are cult members – although more and more each day they trend in the direction of being congruent sets.

      • Don –

        I don’t now, and never have, lived in any part of NYC.

        I don’t rent an apartment now, and haven’t done so for over 20 years. I own three properties, the one I currently live as well as two others with a total of nine rental units.

        Anytime you want to set up a wager on any of that, we can work that out. I suggest a $10k bet but would be more than happy to increase the wager by an order of magnitude.

        Put your money where your mouth – or scurry away like you have in the past if you don’t have the stones.

      • And what’s up with this weird obsession you have where I live, anyway?

      • Why are you so hysterical and defensive, joshie? I didn’t give any specifics. Nobody could locate a particular anonymous insignificant chump on what I have revealed. Queens and the Bronx are full of such varmints.

        You are really not very bright. And you prove my point over and over again. Thank you, and get some sleep. You’re fraying.

      • Hmmm. Where is our little greedy capitalist slumlord, on this fine day? Has it finally dawned on the little fake progressive that I been playing him, like a fish? Seems that he done scurried away, after making a big foolish spectacle of himself.

        Meanwhile, old senile sleepy joe continues to wallow in self-inflicted humiliation. Interviewed by fake news Telemundo in an obvious set up with prepared script and teleprompter. Very pathetic:

        https://bigleaguepolitics.com/watch-joe-biden-struggles-to-read-scripted-answers-off-a-teleprompter-during-an-interview/

      • More on the fake news Telemundo interview. If this blatant election interference collusion is not illegal, it should be. FEC and FCC need to investigate:

      • James Cross wrote to me:
        >That’s funny about a “normal country”.

        >I guess that means one run by a strong man and a small group of rich oligarchs dedicated to making the world richer for themselves.

        James, what you describe is what we had under Obama: Joe Biden went around the world with his moronic son Hunter getting him special deals in Ukraine, China, etc.

        Biden family = Oligarchs.

        I made very clear what I meant be a “normal country”: “not the World Hegemon.

        Like Switzerland is normal. Sweden is normal. Ya get it?

        The Deputy Supreme Leader of Switzerland or Sweden does not go to Ukraine and threaten to withhold a billion unless they grease the DSL son’s palms.

        Ya get it?

        Tell us, James, how is your income beholden to the Hegemon in such a way that you just feel you have to lie and lie and lie to defend it? You’re what we used to call a “Yankee imperialist” when I was young.

        I’ve never liked imperialists.

        “Death to the American Empire. Long live the American Republic!”

        Ya get it?

        No, of course you don’t, because somehow you get something out of the Empire. And you’d be a janitor (at best) in a free republic.

      • Joshua replied to me:
        >Yes, Trump is good a getting support from many people who are triggered by their empathy for their fellow Americans.

        Yes, I think that is a very, very good thing — ” people who are triggered by their empathy for their fellow Americans.” Don’t you, Joshua?

        I wish all the best to all human beings around the world who are willing to live in peace with their fellow human beings, wherever they may live and whatever they may believe.

        But, yes, just as I have more empathy for my family than for some guys on the other side of the country, so also I have more empathy for my fellow Americans on the other side of the country than I do for people living half-way around the world.

        “Think globally, but act locally,” as we used to say.

        You disagree? You think I should be meddling in the affairs of Kashmir or Ukraine rather than trying to help my family, my neighbors, my fellow countrymen?

      • Dave –

        > You disagree?

        Well, yes.

        But amusingly enough, “empathy” was an autocorrect for “antipathy.”

    • Our own internationalist (D)-Marxist left loons have an even lower opinion of our country’s founders, our history and our current existence than does the majority of foreigners. They demand that we tear it all down. Hell, the recently deceased left loon SCOTUS Justice expressed that she preferred the modern constitution of The Utopia of South Africa, to our own old dirty thing. Her votes on the Court well reflected her disdain for our founding documents.

      The SCOTUS is about to be blessed with a sane, healthy, young lady justice who will honor our Constitution and MAGA, for many years to come.

      The left loons are apoplectic. The fools are threatening violence if the POTUS and Senate fulfill their Constitutional duty to replace a dead Justice with a live one. Boo hoo. Rinse and repeat the same scenario one or two more times in POTUS Trump’s second term.

      • Youtube Google is trying to squash this (D) killer:

      • I like the idea of six more justices and two more states. Totally constitutional.

      • “I like the idea of six more justices and two more states. Totally constitutional.”

        Why stop with that? 10 more justices. 10 more states. If we can’t beat the Electoral College, we will use it. It’s another form of stealing votes. Which I never put much credence in, but resist.

        I think we should impeach Trump for nominating a justice. There’s something un-Constitional about him doing his Constitutional duty.

      • I don’t care how many judges, 1, 9 or 15 doesn’t matter as long as they will protect patent law. We must protect the right of corporations to control our future, especially who controls AI and genetic engineering.

      • Actually six more justices and two more states makes a lot of sense especially if add in term limits for justices.

        Fifteen with term limits will really diminish the amount of politics played with the court on both sides as well as make sure that decisions are more judicial and less political. There is no reason the country should be held hostage to a few Harvard and Yale lawyers.

        And the people of the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico have been second-class, unrepresented for too long. Both have bigger populations than a number of existing states.

      • Everyone should be on the Supreme Court at one time. And we should each be our own state. The libertarians win. Thank you Democrats for your mad quest for power. You can now admit we were right.

      • jacksmith4tx wrote:

        > I don’t care how many judges, 1, 9 or 15 doesn’t matter as long as they will protect patent law. We must protect the right of corporations to control our future, especially who controls AI and genetic engineering.

        I’m assuming from your final sentence that that is sarcasm.

        An interesting book on the subject is Against Intellectual Monopoly: It turns out that the economic case for IP is very, very thin — obvious to anyone who actually understood Econ 101.

        I speak from experience here, having my name as co-inventor on a number of patents (rights owned, of course, by the corporations I worked for).

        What is especially funny is that the US complains about China “stealing” our “intellectual property.”

        They manufacture physical objects, but we, we own ideas. Yeah, that’s the road to greatness, that’s how the West was won, that’s how we won two World Wars.

        Not by the dirty job of actually producing stuff, but by “owning ideas.”

        I weep for my country.

      • Dave,
        It may have been a bit sarcastic but I am serious that our patent law is skewed to increase inequality and enshrine dynastic monopolies. But since everybody is doing it we can’t complain when they do it too.
        https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-patents-idUSKBN21P1P9
        “China was the biggest source of applications for international patents in the world last year, pushing the United States out of the top spot it has held since the global system was set up more than 40 years ago, the U.N. patent agency said on Tuesday.”

        The Chinese have a plan (September 23, 2020):
        https://en.brinkwire.com/news/china-sets-goals-for-development-of-postgraduate-education/
        “More than 3 million students in China will be pursuing their doctoral or master’s degree in 2020.”

  92. Joshua

    Don’t know if you saw my message yesterday on the FIRE thread?

    As promised I have posted the Brexit material. Don’t know if it will be moderated or disappear as happens frequently
    …. ……

    Data from Office National Statistics, The Economist, London school of Economics Obruk, Variety of named books with named references

    406 Parliamentary constituencies voted to Leave, 242 voted to remain.
    148 Labour constituencies voted to Leave, 84 voted to Remain
    247 Tory constituencies voted to Leave, 80 voted to Remain.
    9 regions voted to Leave, 3 voted to Remain.
    160 MP’s voted to Leave 486 voted to Remain.

    Leave 17,410,742 51.89%
    Remain 16,141,241 48.11%
    Valid votes 33,551,983 99.92%
    Invalid or blank votes 25,359 0.08%
    Total votes 33,577,342 100.00%

    72.21% turnout. 17.4 million voted to leave on 23 june. That is 1.3 million more than Remain. The result delivered the largest democratic mandate ever handed to a British Govt.

    32 percent of Brexit supporters had a degree, leave voters tend to be biased towards the over 35’s.
    Note; UK University take up has increased from 5 percent in the older cohort who were educated in the 50’s 60’s and 70’s to 50 percent in the youngest so the older cohort did not have an opportunity to get a degree as the opportunities were not there to do so. Consequently the level of leavers with a degree seems high and must be biased towards the 35 to 55 year olds

    London School of Economics study ‘rejected the disharmonious view of the low educated brexiteer vs the high educated remainer as those with intermediate levels of education, good gcse and A levels (often a precursor to going on to university if the opportunities were available ) were more pro leave than the low educated. in other words the worst educated who did not go on to University voted remain”.
    .
    Those better off in the AB category voted by a small majority to remain but 46 percent of this group voted leave and without them leave would not have won
    the younger you were the more likely you were to vote remain but one in four of 18 to 24 year olds voted to leave more than 40 percent of 25 to 35 year old voted to leave.

    Generally the over 35 voted to leave but still one in 3 over 70 voted to remain.
    without the young leave vote, leave would not have won, without the educated leave vote leave would not have won, without the affluent leave voter leave would not have won”

    an estimated 96 percent of the community of Actors were remainers, a similar amount of scientists and academics, educational establishments and a huge number in the media and public figures including high profile celebs. These influential people had received much more publicity in the run up to the vote with numerous insults hurled at leavers.

    Some 75 percent of MP’s also voted remain so were reluctant to carry out the wishes of their constituents as they thought they knew better

    A Times Educational Supplement poll showed 70 per cent of teachers voted remain which was much higher in south east and London. Some universities forbad leave posters in student rooms in the run up to the vote

    London was one of only 3 areas of 9 to vote remain but by 60 to 40% . It is where much of the influential media, politicians and influencers live.

    60% of UK laws are made in Brussels and imposed by decree. Compliance is carried out by the European Court of Justice based in Luxembourg with a majority of non British judges

    A You Gov opinion poll in 2019 suggested 37 per cent of remain voters had defriended people who had voted leave as compared with 9 percent of leavers defriending remainers

    Only some 5% of UK businesses trade with the EU but ALL businesses have to comply with the rules. The Economist has estimated the ‘cost of compliance’ to EU Rules at some £32 billion a year.
    Compliance £32 billion per year
    Membership 10 billion per year
    Trade deficit with the EU 80 billion per year
    Govt contracts placed overseas to comply with the EU tenders regulations, some £20-40 billion annually (varies according to govt business cycles)

    Add in the employment of some 3 million EU nationals-often low skilled and paying little tax–who otherwise might have been unemployed in their own country

    Add in the £3 billion a year customs duty we rebate to the EU less 20% commission and we keep the VAT
    http://obr.uk/box/customs-duties-assumptions-post-brexit/

    So the UK were paying a huge membership bill, plus social benefits, for a trading deficit of £70 billion a year PLUS all the other huge costs mentioned, and had our laws written and judged on elsewhere.

    This all looks a much better deal for the EU than for the UK and meant we were not a sovereign and independent country, said to be the single most important reason for voting leave.

    Some Commentary
    John Pilger Why the British said no to Europe
    25 June 2016
    ‘The most effective propagandists of the “European ideal” have not been the far right, but an insufferably patrician class for whom metropolitan London is the United Kingdom. Its leading members see themselves as liberal, enlightened, cultivated tribunes of the 21st century zeitgeist, even “cool”. What they really are is a bourgeoisie with insatiable consumerist tastes and ancient instincts of their own superiority. In their house paper, the Guardian, they have gloated, day after day, at those who would even consider the EU profoundly undemocratic, a source of social injustice and a virulent extremism known as “neoliberalism”. The aim of this extremism is to install a permanent, capitalist theocracy that ensures a two-thirds society, with the majority divided and indebted, managed by a corporate class, and a permanent working poor.’

    David Goodhart the author of ‘The Road to Somewhere’ suggests the divide over remain is “between 2 groups of people, the ‘somewheres’ and the ‘anywheres’ . Somewheres are rooted to their communities and feel a sense of place and belonging and have an affection for tradition, history and nation state. ‘Anywheres’ don’t buy any of that stuff. They are rootless, unencumbered by either history or for that matter the present .”

    Common insults against leavers relayed by Rod Liddle author of ‘The Great Brexit betrayal “you didn’t really know what you were doing as you are rather thick old and racist, did you?”

    “there was a relentless demand for a second vote on the basis that many of those who had voted incorrectly the first time round had now died and that the proles hadn’t realised what they were doing and now realised they had made a terrible mistake’ .

    Summary; Despite ‘Tactical voting’ Boris Johnson gets a huge 80 seat majority in the ‘Brexit’ General election of December 2019. Those voters with the most experience of the EU were the most keen to want to leave it. Those with the least experience of it wanted to remain.

    Numerous seats changed hands from Labour to Conservative, many for the first time ever. Polls failed to predict result accurately as in 2010 (GE) 2015, (GE) with a majority gained unexpectedly when PM David Cameron agreed to a referendum on membership if he won . Referendum 2016, GE 2017 and 2019 (Euro elections and GE)

    tonyb

    • Tony, thanks for data supporting my suspicion that a modern “university” is yesterday’s “kindergarten”. In America, almost everybody has a high school diploma. As a result, a high school means nothing. And there goes a university degree ..

  93. Good article for cult members who insist that this country hasn’t failed in how it has addressed the pandemic

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/local/news/n-95-shortage-covid/

    • Trump failed. Fine. It’s not that big of a deal. Total deaths are up something like 7%. Mostly old people. Will we fail to educate children?

      • J:

        You could say most of those things about the health impacts of sugar and high fructose corn syrup. Processed foods.

        In MN I define the pandemic as over. We’ve had daily or close to daily reports in the single digits for deaths for a short while. Around 1 in a million. Normal deaths are probably greater than 140 a day. I am granting almost 100 year lives here.

        There used to be a story about sacrifice. For one’s kids. Some for even your neighbor’s kids, and for sure for your sibling’s kids. We would do that. It’s time to do that.

        I don’t want to surrender to this thing. I wear my mask when I go into a business and that’s fine. I ventilate my office but it’s not Winter yet. I do think we have effective herd immunity that works 95% of the time. I expect deaths to continue while tapering down, but not be extinguished. We’ve fought the war on poverty, drugs, climate change and terrorism. We lost all of them. We will lose this one, but I am guessing we will see death rates increase by 2% over the normal deaths, mostly old people, over the medium term.

        Doctors and scientists fail to save us from a lot of things. This is no different. I will not be waiting for the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow to be handed to me by them or government.

  94. I started following this site because I thought it was an interesting possibility that global warming estimates could be overstated. But reading the comments and even some of the posts… I think you all are doing a disservice to your research by supporting and defending Trump across the board. I mean, he said we had 15 cases that would be going down to zero. He discourages mask-wearing. He holds indoor rallies during a pandemic. To any rational observer, he’s clearly an imbecile.

    • VAClimate, when you say such things, whose science are you following? Are you following Fauci and gang, or are you following the numerous physicians and public health experts who say that lockdown was/is a mistake and that there’s no real justification for wearing masks? https://swprs.org/facts-about-covid-19/

      Is the WHO correct on public health measures or is Sweden? In Sweden people are acting normally, they’re on the other side of this, while many states in the US are living in a state of fear. My state mandates mask wearing and many restaurants only have take-out or have closed.

      The media can make anyone look like an imbecile. Are you seeing the reality or are you seeing the spin?

      • That’s incorrect to say in Sweden everyone acted normally. They did take steps to contain the virus: high schools and universities were closed, gatherings of more than 50 people were banned. Right-wingers somehow believe that the media is responsible for people critical of Trump. I can make a determination just by listening to his own words.

      • Secondly, I think you are mistaken on masks. Nurses and surgeons have been wearing masks for decades. They actually do reduce the chance of spread of viruses and bacteria spreading.

      • There’s are many studies that provide evidence on the efficacy of masks for covid. The are a few which don’t.

        There’s a lot of experimental evidence that Alaska speak to the efficacy of masks.

        It’s silly to point to a selectively culled subset of the evidence to conclude that it is dispositive (no matter on wich side of the debate). It’s a matter of risk assessment in the face of uncertainty.

      • VAClimate: you’ll note that I said that people are acting normally, not that they’ve acted normally throughout the whole pandemic. They got through it. We’re still on a 24/7 fear-mongering news cycle: we’re all gonna die unless ….

        Notice that elementary schools stayed open in Sweden. What does Fauci want to do? He wants to scare us that maybe, just maybe, they’ll be a kid here or there who gets really sick from Covid. But kids skate through this.

        Masks: https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/
        https://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-perspective/2020/04/commentary-masks-all-covid-19-not-based-sound-data

        Look at Sweden: no masks. Are people dropping dead of Covid left and right? No, they are not. So do we really need masks? I say anyone who wants to wear one is welcome but masks mandates, as in my misguided state, are misguided.

        Re: Trump. The media can make anyone look like an idiot. But, you say, he IS an idiot. Really? Or has that image been packaged and sold to you? The media can make you, me, or anyone look like an idiot by selective photos and selective words.

        Example: that idiot Trump said we should drink bleach! Ha ha ha! Only thing is not only did he never say this, but in the news conference where he supposedly said this he had the good Dr. Birx right there sitting on the side and each time he mentioned something “crazy” he turned to her and asked “is that right”? He’d obviously been briefed, for one thing, and the media was quick to twist this, for another. Make no mistake, your perception is being managed.

        Hydroxycholoroquine? Ha ha ha that idiot! Right?

        This is coming from someone who would’ve voted for Bernie Sanders four years ago– I kid you not. I’ve learned a lot since then.

        You, my friend, are being manipulated, and you suppose that what you’re seeing is “the truth.”

      • Fauci said no masks. He must be an imbecile.

        I wear them where it is expected. They have some effectiveness and if most folks think they are necessary, why fight over it. We got bigger MAGA fish to fry.

      • > They have some effectiveness and if most folks think they are necessary, why fight over it.

        Because it’s the greatest infringement of our civil rights in our country’s history. Worse than slavery. And they’re soooo hot. Waaaah. And it’s a plot to destroy the economy to hurt Trump. And they make people sick. And if God wanted us to wear masks we’d be born with them on.

      • Joshua, you may (or may not) recall that AG Barr stated that lockdowns, not masks, were comparable to slavery. A bit of an exaggeration, yes, but lockdowns were a huge over-reaction from the very start in light of what we knew about who was most susceptible to Covid-19. Lockdowns have unnecessarily destroyed economies and social life and have very likely caused much more harm than the disease itself.

        I have no objection to anyone wearing masks, as I’ve stated. I have an objection to mask mandates when there’s no solid scientific or empirical
        (Sweden?) evidence that they do much of anything for the general public. There’s a mask mandate in my state, such that the bank teller at the drive-up window (because you can’t go inside) gives me a dirty look if I pull up without a mask, even though a glass separates us and we’re about six feet apart. Fear porn?

        Since this is a political thread, I’ll say it: I believe that the virus was manufactured and released in order to bring the world economy to its knees, measure the susceptibility of people to obedience to “stay safe” (how I hate that cowardly phrase!), prevent Trump from being re-elected, and help usher in the Great Reset which will destroy American self-determination. https://www.weforum.org/great-reset. The Great Reset: great idea whose time has come or wolf in sheep’s clothing?

        Seriously, I was a Bernie Sanders supporter. You may think I’m pulling your leg but it’s true. I’ve learned a lot since then.

        Stay safe? How about, stay free?

      • Don132 –

        > Barr stated that lockdowns, not masks, were comparable to slavery.

        Actually, he didn’t exactly make that comparison. He merely said they are the biggest infringement of civil rights since that time.

        A mind-numbingly bizarre opinion i would say (bigger than Jim Crow? Really? Than preventing people from marrying baaed on their sexual preference? Really? Than paying someone less for the same work based on their gender? Really? Imprisoning people during WWII based on their nationality? Really? Not giving someone a loan because of their skin color? Really? Etc.) but not quite the comparison you state.

        No – I was referencing the snowflake whiners who consider a minor inconvenience, for a potential life and death benefit to others, to be a serous infringement of their freedoms. Of course many of them aren’t paying attention, and mistakenly think that their wearing a mask is recommended for the purpose of them protecting themselves from getting infected from others and that’s not quite exactly the reason. Indeed, if that were the actual logic, and their protection were in some way severable from the protection of the general public health, then it would be incredibly self-centered but also not actually more be a matter of their infringement on the rights of others. But that’s not the case.

        So their whining isn’t just being self-centered – it’s also suggests an unwillingness to live up to their obligations to their fellow citizens. But I will give most the benefit of the doubt, and assume it’s ignorance at the root and not a knowing refusal of their obligations as citizens.

      • > Lockdowns have unnecessarily destroyed economies and social life and have very likely caused much more harm than the disease itself.

        It’s amazing how some people insist on ignoring uncertainties;

        https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy

      • Joshua,

        I don’t think you even understand what the data you linked to means. https://ourworldindata.org/covid-health-economy It does not mean that lockdowns have not hurt economies. I can see this with my own eyes in my own state, where small businesses have been destroyed and we’ve had long lines of cars lining up for food from the National Guard. Not sure what other point you were trying to make about “uncertainties.”

        A certainty: lockdowns have caused great harm. Could we have taken another course with better results? A lot of people would say yes. I have no argument with that.

      • > . I can see this with my own eyes in my own state, where small businesses have been destroyed and we’ve had long lines of cars lining up for food from the National Guard. Not sure what other point you were trying to make about “uncertainties.”

        Don. There has certainly been economic harm. You don’t know whether or to what degree that harm was “caused” by shelter in place orders or the pandemic itself. You don’t know whether or to what degree the harm might have worse absent SIPs. There is too much u uncertainty to know. Try looking at the article again. Your certainty rests on an unscientific treatment of the evidence. It’s a “correlation isn’t the same thing as
        causaation” kind of thingy.

      • “It may be your mailman, it may be your doctor, or your nurse or your neighbor. You’re doing it for other people, not necessarily yourself.”

        Brant Fagan, the father of Adeline Fagan, a 28-year-old doctor who died after a monthslong battle with the coronavirus. He urged people to wear masks and practice social distancing.

      • All kinds of stories about people who either died of Covid or died because they couldn’t get treated for a condition because Covid was creating so much fear. Or committed suicide because they didn’t have a job. Or overdosed out of depression and despair. Or died all alone in a nursing home without loved ones. Take your pick if you want to “prove” something.

      • Don132 –

        > All kinds of stories about people who either died of Covid or died because they couldn’t get treated for a condition because Covid was creating so much fear. Or committed suicide because they didn’t have a job. Or overdosed out of depression and despair. Or died all alone in a nursing home without loved ones. Take your pick if you want to “prove” something.

        Personal stories are important. I referenced one. Fear is obviously an important aspect, and hyping of the fear is a contributing issue. But in the real world you can’t prevent fear in this kind of situation unless you want to grant power to some kind of authoritarian state. B

        But there is a problem with reasoning by anecdotes. There’s evidence that those phenomena could have been worse absent SIPs. We don’t know. So then it becomes a matter of risk assessment in the face of uncertainty. And a matter of priorities. I prioritize the heroes who are making the biggest sacrifices sinjtjers can can stay safe. And I think it’s important to rember that different communities are impacted disparately.

        Rural voters who live in sparsely populated states have significantly disproportionate power in our system of government. Also in our judicial system, and it’s going to get even more disproportionate very soon. That disproportionate access to power has become seen as a birthright entitlement for those people and so then they tend to lose sight of their relative advantage and take it for granted. We can see that in the political schism in how people weigh the risks of covid.

        That is a problem within its own right – but the problem gets worse, imo, in that it is contributing to a kind of disequilibrium that is trending towards getting more pronounced. I am worried that it can lead to a dangerous instability. It’s possible that this a disequilibrium will eventually translate into progress. It has happened in our country in the past. But there are troubling signs. We have more inequality. We have opposition being increasingly labeled as “treason.” we have a concerted effort to undermine our institutions of science. We have increasing distrust of our institutions of government. And we have an explicit effort to increase the centralized power of the executive office.

        Not a good mix, imo.

      • Joshua’s long winded comment boils down to- he doesn’t like or support our Republic.

      • Perhaps it’s best to leave Joshua to his delusions.

      • > Joshua’s long winded comment boils down to- he doesn’t like or support our Republic

        That’s great. When I point out simple facts like the disproportionate power of rural voters (associated with racial and ethnic disparities) vis a vis the Senate and SCOTUS (and actually the house as well even though they are the minority power there), go to the old stand by, question my patriotism (with a personal attack).

        Not that we should take too much from some outliers posting comments on the interwebs, but this is very much a dynamic that concerns me because I think that it reflects larger structural issues.

        I’m times past, there was more diversity of view within the parties. Now, we seenthst tribalism has a stronger hold on the very mechanisms of our government. I’m accused of being un-American by virtue of pointing out simple facts. I am considered unsuitable for fair representation because I don’t belong in the club.

        This sort of attitude isn’t unique to conservatives, but prevails across the political divide ever more increasingly. And it has created a structural imbalance between those who hold the reins of power and the general population. With increasing concentration of the population in urban communities, and the disparately faster rate of growth in minority communities, this divide is likely to grow. As is, likely, he kind of attitude displayed by my good friend Rob Starkey – suggesting that I’m not an equal member of the American enterprise due to my political views.

        I hope it works out well, but it’s a potentially volitile mix.

      • Robert Starkey

        Joshua just makes stuff up.

        No one “suggested” that he’s not an equal member of the American enterprise due to his political views. I wrote he doesn’t support our Republic based on his writing his desire to eliminate the electoral college.

      • Rob –

        > Joshua just makes stuff up.

        […]

        >> I wrote he doesn’t support our Republic based on his writing his desire to eliminate the electoral college.

        That’s next level stuff on the irony scale. Where did I write of my desire to “eliminate the electoral college?”

        In point of fact, you nave zero idea what my views are in the electoral college.

        I wrote of a structural imbalance which exists, whereby some citizens in our country have disparate representative power across the Senate and the House and SCOTUS – with that trend of disparity on the path towards increasing in the Senate, at least.

        There are a number of complicating factors. The electoral college is one. Gerrymandering and the census are others, along with the filibuster, cloture, and the lack of Senate representation for our fellow citizens who live in Puerto Rico and Washington DC. There are others as well. The solutions aren’t easy. And as long as people settle for cheap antipathy such as you did above, rather than engage in reasoned exchange of views, I’m worried that the disparities could prove unsustainable.

        I hope I’m wrong.

    • VAClimate wrote:
      > I think you all are doing a disservice to your research by supporting and defending Trump across the board.

      Who is this “you all”????

      I think Trump is wrong on trade policy, I think his fiscal policy (huge deficits) stinks, I think he lacks an understanding of monetary policy.

      But I think he honestly wants to end the pointless foreign wars (he has been less than totally successful).

      And I think he does not hate most of his fellow citizens — the so-called “deplorables.”

      How many people here do you really think defend Trump “across the board”?

      • I shouldn’t have said “all” – I’m glad you recognize the collossal failure of Trump on the debt. After ridiculously promising to get rid of the entire national debt, he raised the debt to levels higher than Obama even before the virus. Republicans across the board said the tax cut would pay for itself; it clearly did not.

      • During the Obama-old senile sleepy joe stagnation, the national debt to GDP ratio went from 77% to 105%. The average of the ratio was down for the first two years. For the last quarter ended Jul 30, 2020, 107.7%. Most of MAGA Trump’s first term has passed and national debt to GDP has barely budged, except for the influence of the COVID economic devastation and necessary spending.

        https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEGDQ188S

        Tax cuts were provided so folks would have more of their hard earned money to spend and to make the economy grow. Successful on both counts. Household net worth is up, earnings up. Unemployment was at historic lows. It was MAGA BOOM! and it’s coming back strong, due to MAGA policy structural changes in our economy, trade, etc.

        The vast majority of the budget is cooked in. The debt growth rate is cooked in and a lot of hard work has to be done against fanatical left loon opposition to get spending down. And we need to spend to insure that MGA get’s re-elected. The folks like deficit spending. So, get over it.

      • If you look at Don’s comments above… that’s an example of what I’m talking about. I mean, Trump slowing down coronavirus testing is the exact opposite of a good response to the pandemic. But yet there are many anti-AGWers who are very passionately devoted to Trump no matter what he says or does.

      • Don –

        Check out this chart. Then get back to us. We’ll talk:

        https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/government-debt-to-gdp

      • From before Covid:

        -snip-

        Under Trump’s failed fiscal policies, the deficit will reach $1 trillion this year for only the fifth time in American history.

        Under Trump’s failed fiscal policies, the deficit will be more than $1 trillion every year in perpetuity.
        Under Trump’s failed fiscal policies, the deficit has increased nearly 70% in the 3 years since he took office.

        Under Trump’s failed fiscal policies, the national debt will nearly equal the size of our entire economy within ten years.

        Under Trump’s failed fiscal policies, his tax bill sparing the wealthiest from paying their rightful share in taxes was responsible for about 25% of 2019’s deficit.

        Under Trump’s failed fiscal policies, the deficit is rising at the exact moment that it has fallen for past presidents – when the economy was growing, not shrinking

        -snip-

        https://www.thirdway.org/memo/what-you-need-to-know-about-trumps-record-on-the-national-debt

      • I already discussed that and provided a link to the data from the Fed. Just carry on with your tedious TDS BS. You all are losing. Tell that other left loon drone that I don’t have any more time for his well-worn CNN fake news BS. You TDS boys just keep pissing in the wind. Your frantic futile foolishness is amusing.

        The smoke has cleared and I have to pack up for another victory ride on the Trump MAGA Train!
        WOO WOOO!

    • But you aren’t rational. You have your head thoroughly stuck up your CNN.

      • Actually I don’t subscribe to cable but it sounds like you’ve been thoroughly brainwashed by right-wing talk radio and/or FOX News commentators. Trump has broken promise and promise after promise and failed this country miserably, but it shouldn’t be long before he is defeated by the American people. When a president is failing this badly, it’s time to give new leadership a chance.

      • You talk in vague CNN fake news speak, so they got to you somehow.
        That rote Orange Man Bad propaganda is not working. POTUS Trump, until 2017. Get over it.

      • I bet you got excited over that 2017 faux paus. It’s 2025. Eat your heart out.

      • 200,000 dead, 13+ million unemployed… and you’re “Hip, Hip, Hoorah for MAGA Trump?” You can’t possibly be for real. He totally botched up the coronavirus response and the country. A total disaster and it happened on his watch. Drain the swamp and throw Trump out!

    • Here’s what the EU was saying to the press at the same time that the “imbecile” Trump was claiming the case counts weren’t going to grow.

      “Pasi Penttinen, an immunisation specialist at the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control, said “we do not currently see an increasing trend in the numbers of cases” in the European Union and European Economic Area.
      This might reflect the “impact of the unprecedented measures Chinese authorities have taken and the increasing limitations to air travel from China”, he said.”

      That was in a story about the “heroic” Angela Merkel hopping on the phone to assure China they wouldn’t impose anymore silly travel restrictions for a little old bug. https://www.scmp.com/news/china/diplomacy/article/3049895/coronavirus-keep-cool-and-carry-china-urges-germany

      Of course, then Angela reversed herself, panicked, and gave a televised address saying “70% of Germans” would catch Covid- which if remotely true would mean that Trump would have done very well to keep cases below 225 million in the US. The US has 2.7% the caseload that the non-imbeciles were predicting.
      There was a whole lot of bad politics about Covid and it’s only getting worse.

  95. America, what a country…
    This should give everyone (AG Barr?) a few ideas on how to toss the election to the Supreme Court.
    64 Tie Combinations:
    https://www.270towin.com/electoral-college-tie-combinations/

  96. Does anyone remember Kamala Harris? “…has gone from a historic vice presidential selection to an invisible running mate.” It was historic.

  97. Why Not Cancel Karl Marx?
    https://spectator.org/cancel-karl-marx/

    He wrote some stuff I can’t quote here.

    I defended Thomas Jefferson’s legacy even though he owned slaves. So I do not want to cancel Marx. I want the Left to cancel him.

    Jefferson wrote some of the things that helped free our slaves. Marx wrote things that made Black Lives better? Maybe. I’d think capitalism made their lives better when put against Marxism. Let’s call them both revolutionaries. You’d call ours the most successful that have ever happened. USSR’s not so much.

  98. Guys just made a website for me, look at the link:
    Resume writing Tell me your recommendations. Thanks.

  99. Regardless of your political views, here is a simple fact which should affect everyone’s decision on how to vote:

    The Democrat’s “Green New Deal” will cause temperatures to SOAR.

    The centerpiece of the “Green New Deal” is to completely abandon the burning of fossil fuels, which produce both CO2 and SO2 emissions, in an effort to achieve a carbon-free economy.

    However, we know from the eruption of VEI4 and larger volcanoes that there is initial cooling because of their injection of SO2 into the stratosphere, where it is converted to dimming SO2 aerosols (fine droplets of Sulfuric Acid). It takes about a year for the maximum cooling to occur, as their aerosols circulate around the globe.

    When these SO2 aerosols eventually settle out, in about 2 years after the date of the eruption, temperatures rise to pre-eruption levels, or a bit higher, because of the removal of the SO2 pollution from the atmosphere. This allows sunshine to strike the Earth’s surface with greater intensity, causing increased warming.

    Thus, any significant decrease in the amount of SO2 aerosol pollution in the atmosphere will always cause temperatures to rise.

    It then follows that if the burning of fossil fuels is eliminated, as is the intention of then Democrats, it will remove all man-made SO2 aerosol emissions from our atmosphere (currently estimated to be about 80 million tons annually) and warming HAS to occur.

    If emissions are eventually driven down to near zero, temperatures will rise by 1.5 to 2 Deg. C from present levels. This will increase or worsen climate-related disasters, and make much of the world unlivable due to unbearable temperatures and rising sea levels.

    Thus, a vote for Joe Biden will be a vote for disaster, which will affect everyone.

    • In retrospect, things are not as dire as I have suggested, in that the 80 Megaton estimate is for Worldwide SO2 emissions, and American SO2 emissions are a small fraction of that..

      Other countries are also attempting to achieve carbon-free economies, so the concern is real,, but more on a global scale.

      However, the Green New Deal’s focus on lowering CO2 emissions, at a cost a trillion dollars, or more, will have NO. effect upon our climate, since CO2 has no climatic effect–which is an even stronger reason not to vote Democratic..

      http://www.scholink.org/ojs/index.php/se/article/view/3210

      • The GND is about much more than CO2.
        http://energyskeptic.com/2020/a-strong-case-for-the-anthropocene-no-other-species-has-ever-consumed-as-much-of-earths-resources-so-quickly/
        “It is without precedent to have a single species appropriating a quarter of the net primary biological production of the planet and to become effectively the top predator both on land and at sea.

        Some of the massive effects humans are having on the planet include mining phosphorus and fixing nitrogen to make fertilizer, burning hundreds of millions of years of fossil fuels, and directing this increased productivity that is well beyond natural levels towards animals re-engineered for our consumption.”

        If you want to really think long term consider all the factors, not just FF.
        http://www.drawdown.org/
        There is always plan B. We just could just terraform the planet by design and seize control of our destiny.
        https://theterraforming.strelka.com/

      • JackSmith4TX

        Since the control knob for our climate is the amount of SO2 in the atmosphere, and CO2 has no climatic effect, we have the ability to reverse the warming that has occurred, back to more equitable temperatures.

        For future energy requirements, advanced fission reactors have been developed, and fusion power will eventually be available (although seemingly always 25 years into the future) and there will be no need for our diminishing fossil fuels.

        The links which you provided are really scary!

      • jack smith – man is natural and therefore so is the species growth rate.

  100. robertushkanefrila

    vfhbynefrila

  101. Anyone got any opinions on the news of Trumps tax returns? As far as I can tell it seems probable he has not done anything illegal, but whether its ethical is another thing, especially for a President.

    Mind you, presumably those who will be shocked by Trumps tax returns will agree that the US Big tech firms have been getting away with shielding their tax liabilities for years. Here in Europe the amount of tax that Amazon, Google and Apple amongst many others pay, is considered farcical.

    The EU commission has decided to appeal the ruling that let Apple off the Tax hook for $12 billion as regards channelling money to Ireland.

    If its good enough for the US tech giants its presumably good enough for Trump?

    Tonyb

    • Tony:

      I am a patent attorney and not a tax attorney. But I always have an opinion (grin). My opinion is we just don’t have enough information to know what is going on. Trump could have zero income (or $750 USD) because he has depreciation or amortization or some other deduction from a previous tax year which lowers his taxable income in 2016 or 2017 (or the other years for that matter). The information published is not enough to know the full picture.

      Did Trump commit tax fraud? You cannot tell. The IRS hasn’t charged him with anything and they have been looking at it for 11 years.

      Did Trump do something unethical? You cannot tell.

      Is Trump a terrible business person? You cannot tell.

      Is Trump going to have trouble refinancing his debt? You cannot tell – probably not if his cash flow is sufficient – and we cannot tell the cash flow from the information published.

      It certainly isn’t fair to compare someone with 500 companies involved in his tax return with a person paying taxes on W2 wages – but that is politics in the USA. Anybody who runs a business or buys equipment that is depreciated (like a farmer for example) will understand how you can end up not owing Federal taxes in a particular year, based on something done many years ago (like buy a tractor or more land).

      • Rick

        Thanks very much. Presumably this was all released prior to any Biden debates in order to cause maximum damage.

        What will the line of attack be by the democrats as no doubt they will hope this tax business will alienate wavering voters?

        Tonyb

      • Tony –

        > Presumably this was all released prior to any Biden debates in order to cause maximum damage.

        Do why hasn’t Trump released his tax returns as that would eliminate any damage prior to the debates?

        Strange, isn’t it, as releasing releasing his returns could eliminate any implications of illegal or unethical behavior, and be a big boost to his campaign chances?

      • Tony:

        Yes. My guess is they will just use the leaked tax information to call Trump a liar (some more). You lied about being a great businessman (they will say). You lied about paying lots and lots of taxes (they will say). And they will try to scare voters with the debt coming due in 2022 (you are a security risk, they will say). It will make some difference – but how much? Not much is my guess. Those who think Trump is a tax cheat already are voting against him and Trump supporters will give him the benefit of the doubt. At least that is my take.

      • Never mind that the NYslimes $750 BS is contradicted by their own account:

        POTUS Trump has got money coming out of his ears. Not overleveraged. See docs filed yearly with the FEC.

        But this is a fairly effective hit job, so far. That’s what the dims can do with their almost total control of the media.

      • Tony –

        Notice that for all the defenses the offer, they never have a logical explanation for why Trump won’t release his taxes.

        It’s pretty funny

      • Nobody owes you an explanation for why POTUS Trump has not released his tax records, little insignificant slumlord. He has filed all the required financial disclosure documents with the FEC. You haven’t read them. You wouldn’t read his tax returns. You would just be happy with the spin and distortions fed to you by your usual left loon fake news sources.

        What the NYslimes has revealed is that they couldn’t find anything illegal or
        unethical in what they claim are decades of tax records that they will not produce for examination. No Russia Russia Russia. No shady dealings. Just a BS narrative that Trump does nothing but lose money and is about to go broke. Which begs the question, why should he be paying any taxes? His financial disclosure documents and all the stuff he owns indicate he is doing fine. That Trump is a failure and doesn’t pay taxes is just another left loon BS narrative.

        In order to understand POTUS Trump tax returns, one would have to be intelligent and have serviceable knowledge of accounting, finance, etc. You are a not very bright ex-PS #whatever child indoctrinator and you only have a little experience as a small time slumlord.

        One would have to go through the tax returns of hundreds of companies with tens of thousands of employees and billions in annual revenue to get an idea of the taxes that entities controlled by POTUS Trump have paid.

        The NYslimes is not going to tell you how much tax revenue POTUS Trump’s businesses have paid to federal, state and local treasuries. The slimes cherry picked the smallest number they could sift out of the mountain of alleged tax return data and made that the narrative. They did a pretty good hatchet job given that they are shameless left loon DNC propagandists and not the journalists they pretend to be.

      • See what I mean, Tony?

        Just spinning his wheels, throwing out the insults.

        Never a logical explanation.

        Never.

        None.

      • Tony –

        Have you heard the lame explanations offered by Trump? It’s because he’s under audit that he hasn’t released them? Funny.

        Have you heard how he’s promised for years to release them. And that he keeps saying that after offering up the lame excuse that he can’t do it because he’s under audit.

        That’s the kind of crap that he throws out there for his cult members.

        See how Don laps it up?

        Funny.

      • “That’s the kind of crap that he throws out there for his cult members”

        No, he throws it out there so he can live inside the heads of the leftwing loons for another day.

        Based on the bizarre, near psychotic behavior I’ve seen lately by the Trump haters, I’d say it’s been pretty effective.

        Meanwhile, Joe struggles.

        https://t.co/pymKXjlqhf?ssr=true

      • Tony –

        Do you have anything like the Trump cult in the UK?

        I mean there’s prolly a million and one best way to illustrate the Trump cult mentality – but this could be the best of the best.

        So Trump doesn’t want to release his taxes like all other candidates have for decades. Obviously, it’s because there’s things there that he doesn’t want to see. Most likely, of course, because it would be embarrassing for some reason (showing he’s been lying about his wealth) or it would hurt his political fortunes, or both (most likely).

        But obviously, he doesn’t want to admit that he doesn’t want to release his taxes for those reasons, so he just lies and says he really wants to release his taxes, but he can’t, because….uh….um….AUDITS!!! Yeah, that’s it, audits.

        And the gullible members of his cult lap it up. They actually believe his lame excuses.

        I mean can you believe that Tony? They actually can’t see that Trump’s lying through his teeth, and they actually believe the lamest excuse in the history of lame excuses. It’s right there in front of their noses and they can’t see it. Any person with a functional brain could see that it’s a pathetic lie. It’s like they’ve been hypnotized or something.

        Do you have anything like that in the UK, Tony? I’ve never seen anything else like that here. I mean it’s amazing.

      • I gave the left loon varmint the facts. He plays the cult card. What a dunce. A complete waste of time, except that it’s so easy to get him to make a fool of himself. My Jamaican nuclear physicist father-in-law’s words of wisdom: Monkey climb too high, show him tail.

      • Tony –

        Notice once again – deflection from the simple fact that Trump continues to hide his tax returns from public view, and offers a totally lame explanation for why he does so.

        He simply can’t deal with that, can he?

        An explanation so transparently fraudulent that no sensible being, who isn’t in some kind of altered state, could believe it.

        It’s a fascinating phenomenon. I know it exists in places like North Korea (with “dear leader”), but I kind of doubt you’ve seen anything like that in the UK?

      • You are really an easily triggered little dolt. MAGA POTUS Trump has chosen not to reveal his tax returns. Everybody knows that. He is in the White House. He will stay there for another four years. Try something else.
        But feel free to demand that we justify MAGA POTUS Trump’s prerogative, again. Challenge me to $10,000 or magnitude higher bet, you silly little fish.

      • Tony –

        See that? Amazing, isn’t it?

        Trump lies.

        Makes obviously bogus excuses to not release his taxes.

        Claims he wants to release his taxes even though it’s an obvious lie.

        And his cult members reflexively deflect – apparently incapable of any other response. Apparently incapable of dealing with why Trump won’t release his taxes and lie about why he won’t release his taxes.

        Never seen anything like it.

      • Are you still flopping around repeating yourself, little fishy? You are played out. Get some sleep.

      • RickA,
        I think Michael Cohen has personal knowledge tax evasion by President Trump AKA “‘individual number 1”. In fact he was convicted for tax fraud, lying and other federal crimes for assisting Trump (yes he has proof).
        Because our legal system is so flexible our justice department can’t even charge a sitting president with a civil crime.
        You can’t even question the guy in person under oath. Bob Muller tried and they threatened to take it to the Supreme Court.

        But as our resident tax expert Raagar likes to say, everything OK, we’ll be fine.

      • Tony –

        Just keep watching. No matter what, they’re incapable of dealing with the simple fact that Trump is afraid to show his tax returns. and makes up obviously transparent ies about the reason he isn’t doing it.

        It’s amazing. They just can’t do it.

        You try.

        Try asking one of the cult members why Trump makes up obvious lies to explain why he won’t release his tax returns unlike previous candidates.

        It’s fun. You can watch them contort themselves into all kinds of knots, but they can’t give you an answer.

        They must deflect because admitting that Trump is a liar and a con artist would crush them. The dear leader must remain infallible.

        Never seen anything like it.

      • Tony –

        Think of this as you watch the Trump cult members contort themselves into knots.

        And this:

      • You are a funny little character, jacks__t4xyz. If Michael Cohen had anything useful on Trump the Special Counsel Witch Hunt would not have sent him to jail. You are not very bright and you suffer from TDS.

      • Tony is sleeping, little fishy. What’s has got you in a such a frenzy, so late at night there in rundown crime-ridden Queens?

      • Don, you remind me of Brad Parscale, a bright guy that went full MAGA.
        https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2020/sep/28/brad-parscale-body-cam-video-released-ex-trump-cam/
        Police found 10 guns in Mr. Parscale house.
        “One officer noticed that Candice had bruises on her arms and that she said they were from a physical altercation with Brad earlier in the week, according to the report. Another officer reported that Candice had scratches on her body and bruising on her face.”

        Seems like there are some criminal investigations looking into something about millions of 2020 campaign funds missing. Good thing Brad can afford the best medical and legal support. I’m sure Trump’s voters agree.

      • Oh My! I hope they don’t put him in jail. Remember what happened to Jeffrey Epstein under AG. Barr.

        Brad Parscale is under investigation for stealing between $25-$40 million from Trump’s 2020 presidential campaign, well-placed sources told DailyMail.com.

        The 44-year-old is also being investigated for pocketing another $10 million from the Republican National Committee, the insiders added.

        Parscale’s public meltdown happened while he is reportedly under investigation for stealing from the Trump campaign and the RNC. According to the source close to the campaign, the Trump family is worried that Parscale could turn on them and cooperate with law enforcement about possible campaign finance violations. “The family is worried Brad will start talking,” the source said.

    • Yes, I do have a comment on Trump’s tax returns.
      They’re basically insignificant in light of other news. They may demonstrate that Trump is a poor businessman or that he takes advantage of tax laws, but that’s it.

      The “other news,” which is almost completely ignored, is that Hunter Biden, as a board member of the Ukrainian firm Burisma, received large sums from foreign nationals while his father was vice president. Imagine the scandal if we’d heard that Jared Kushner received millions from China and Russia while sitting on the board of a Saudi energy firm (and collecting $50,000 monthly for it) while his father-in-law was president!

      But that’s not all. We’re learning more each day about the shady dealing the FBI had in that it was investigating the Trump administration for Russian collusion before and after the inauguration and yet the key source for these investigations was someone who’d been tagged years earlier as a possible Russian agent and an unreliable source. I’m not making this up.

      But that’s not all. We’re also learning, through email sources and through an FBI interview, that the FBI pursuit of Flynn was considered by many within the FBI to be politically motivated and a sham, as was the entire collusion theory. Agents were so worried about potential repercussions from their possibly illegal actions that they took out insurance.

      Let’s not forget that numerous FBI agents “accidentally” wiped their phones clean recently. What an unfortunate coincidence, now that the heat is being turned up on the FBI.

      https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/25/get-trump-fbi-whistleblower-on-mueller-team-details-real-reason-flynn-was-targeted/

      The news is Trump’s tax return?

      https://thefederalist.com/2020/09/28/the-new-york-times-recycles-old-reporting-to-drop-bombshell-trump-tax-return-story/

    • If this was good news for Trump, he would have released his taxes long ago.

      Probably guilty of tax evasion but has had enough lawyers to battle the IRS that they haven’t had the resources to fight against him. One of the agendas of the conservatives has been defund the IRS so that essentially the only people who get caught and have to pay are the ones without money to hire the right accountants and lawyers.

      The other issue is the 400+ million in loans that are personally guaranteed. Very indicative of some one in financial difficulty. Otherwise, he would have put up properties or other assets. I’m assuming he couldn’t because everything is already leveraged to the hilt. What’s more he is only paying interest on those loans.

      Theory of some who have been around Trump is that he ran for President just for the hope that he could revive his struggling businesses after his TV went into decline. He never expected to win. Some one said that winning the Presidency was his worst business move ever. Unfortunately the right-wing idiots took the con artist seriously and now he is trying to grift his way out of his business messes by using the Presidency.

  102. This is why the Demoncrats are demanding mail in voting:

  103. lizavetanefrila

    atlkznefrila

  104. Hmm

    Sounds as if I inadvertently threw a grenade into a bunker.

    No joshua we do not have anything like the Trump ‘cult’ There is a huge fuss about the morality of tax matters in the UK and Europe with mostly the large American corporations in the firing line. . A personal tax matter-whatever the ins and outs are -would destroy any politician . It would however likely not destroy a business person, so the analogy then becomes clearer with Trump who might be able to run his business in one manner but some might say-rightly or wrongly- that you cant run a Presidency in the same way. We did of course have the cult of Corbyn which was far more purely political and politically pure than than those who have been drawn to Trump

    PJ O Rourke has a new book out in Mid Oct which I will buy but will have to go on the pile behind those relating to climate change enthusiasts who have realised everything is not as clear cut as they thought, Shellenberger amongst them.

    O’rourke makes a number of interesting observations in the extracts published over here-he appears to be a ‘democrat’?

    Amongst them ‘Biden is a mediocrity -he is a first rate mediocrity of the venerable time honoured kind.’

    “Biden’s mind is sharp -in first rate shape for second rate thinking, as its always been’

    You have this cess pit that was Washington politics that many people hated but did not have a voice in till Trump the non politician came along. The book quotes an ordinary joe garage owner bemoaning how difficult it is to get anything done because of state interference and what a load of hassle that presents him with. He sees Trumps flaws but is prepared to overlook them

    O’rourke asks him;

    “how does sending a lunatic (like Trump) to Washington fix this?
    The mechanic laughed ‘Its what they’ve got coming.
    O’rourke muses; ‘and maybe alas it still is’

    For those here who still completely misunderstand Brexit, that sums it up. We instructed our leaders that we wanted out of Europe. They fought tooth and nail to try to present us with a ‘brexit lite’ as so many have done so well out of EU largesse. We had to tell them in four separate elections that incredible as they found it, that is what we wanted.

    Those of Americas friends looking in, see an America in decline and how powerful the slogan ‘make America great again’ was. We can sympathise with the message if not always the messenger, so it mat take more than one election for people to make their point that they want the Augean stable thoroughly cleared out, not merely swept. if of course enough still believe in MAGA. .

    I wouldn’t bet against Trump, but would have done if the Democrats had a half decent candidate

    • Yes – we need someone to divert a river to totally flush out the stables. It is a worthy task – but will probably take a half god to accomplish. I am not sure we have anybody up to the job in America.

      Michelle Obama would have cleaned Trump’s clock, had she wanted to run. I think it is interesting that she didn’t want to. I don’t blame her – what normal person would want the job?

      But this is the second time the democrats picked the worst possible person to run against Trump.

      I expect rioting and looting on election night, as Trump wins the in person voting. Then more rioting and looting over the next 10 days or so, as millions of mail in ballots are discarded as spoiled for failing to follow the rules (we are already seeing 3 times as many democrats cannot follow the rules as republicans, in early voting). Then more rioting and looting as democrats file court actions arguing that the rules don’t matter and the spoiled ballots should be counted anyway. I also expect the number of rioters and looters shot by people fed up with rioting and looting to massively increase. So tough times ahead in America.

      • > Michelle Obama would have cleaned Trump’s clock, had she wanted to run. I think it is interesting that she didn’t want to. I don’t blame her – what normal person would want the job?

        Dubious. Trump won largely by channeling antipathy towards her husband.

      • Joshua:

        I meant this year. Not 2016.

      • RickA –

        > I meant this year. Not 2016

        Maybe. It’s an interesting question and certainly between Biden and Clinton it’s hard to think of anyone who could have done worse.

        It was easy in 2016 to look at the high unfavorables for both Trump and Clinton and think it would be hard to find anyone else with unfavorables as high as Clinton’s and think that bacially anyone with lower unfavorables would have won since it was so close.

        But the reservoir of resentment, sense of grievance, and sense of victimhood that power Trump’s candidacy is powerful, and anyone else would have been targeted similarly, including Michelle Obama. She would have been a socialist lefty loon, part of the system keeping people down, blah, blah. Trump’s path to victory rested in his media weaponization of Fox News and the creation of a new media ecosphere and the targeted marketing of Cambridge Analytica. How much difference, really, does the opposing candidate make? The whole strategy is to create a self-contained ecosphere of a cult of personality.

      • I guess we will see.

        Here are some pluses for Michelle:

        1. She is a women.
        2. She is Black.
        3. She is not brain dead (i.e. she is fairly young).

        So she has that going for her. So she would pick up all the really mad women (especially in the suburbs – maybe Biden already has them). She would pick up the 5% Obama bump and pull some of the Black voters who are actually leaning Trump’s way (according to the polls – which who knows how right they are).

        So I submit Michelle would have been a far better candidate than Biden for 2020. But she didn’t want to run. Oh well.

        So we will see what happens. I predict if Trump wins, that democrats will be throwing themselves under the bus left and right arguing how stupid it was to pick Biden. But that is what they did.

      • Michelle Obama is 40% under water with Republicans/leans Republican. Close to 70% under water with Trump supporters.

      • Rick

        There are two washington stables with, according to some, one of them belonging to trump, so that is quite new

        Now I will leave it to others to tell me which is the biggest and smelliest stable and which needs cleaning the most

        Tonyb

      • This is really a hilarious discussion. Why would anybody believe that Michele Obama would pass on the opportunity to be POTUS, if she thought she had a good shot at it?

        And Trump was propelled to victory by little old weaponized Fox news, in opposition to almost the entirety of the rest of the mass media, including the social media monopolies, Hollyweird, sports celebrities, left loon clergy, left loon academia, the Deep State, RINO never Trumpers, et al.

        Nutty.

      • Rick

        As a historian I find your comment rather interesting. There was a great deal of rioting when Trump won last time round. I think things are much more fevered now. There are many very in your face groups who place themselves above the law and numerous militia groups protecting this or that area,.

        There were 3 or so great ‘world’ Empires, The Roman The British and the American. The latter cultural as well as military rather than a land area grab. The Roman one ended in civil war and internecine infighting egged on by the mob who wanted to retain the various privileges that they had got used to. A barbarian military force was able to topple a regime that had become weak and corrupt in the West.

        Uniquely the British got tired of Empire, helped by radically changed circumstances after the war when a sense of social justice took root and a realisation that the empire could not be justified or funded any longer-resources as much as money

        In effect we gave away the empire in a largely peaceful fashion rather than saw it taken away by force and infighting and to this day the commonwealth contains 56 countries who previously had been part of the empire and two ex colonies from Portugal.

        The American Empire though…. Its not what it was, hence MAGA. If Trump wins, especially in a close call, will it be broken from within by what are in effects numerous examples of civil war waged by those with a growing number of grievances real or imagined?.

        Add in the American love affair with guns and it could all become extremely nasty as it is evident there are some groups that will do anything to get rid of trump and to upend the status quo.

        Very many parts of the US will of course just shrug and say ‘that’s democracy’ and accept Trump, but there is a worrying trend in some of the radicalised cities in the US of those who are determined to get their party into power or pursue their cause,. no matter what.. Indeed interesting times ahead for America.

        Who will the people say will be best to restore Law and order? That would be uppermost in my mind if I were a US voter.

        tonyb

    • O’Rourke is a treasure who is considered a “conservative,” by which we mean he would be a middle of the road Democrat back when the party was functional.
      The example you cite is illustrative. Until sometime after 2010 it would have been amazing to use the word “lunatic” to describe someone who wants less regulation and lower taxes and who accepts that borders are real. Now we live in a time when politicians assume something is wrong with you if you think men can’t have an abortion (and shouldn’t use taxpayer dollars to attempt one). And the New York Times is telling us that following the tax law is a “scandal” that is really important, but less important than the monstrous claim put forth by Trump that cities should not burn.
      If you want to know why Josh can’t stand Donald Trump, it’s because Donald Trump was a Democrat- he’s a bit to the left of Al Gore circa 1988.

      • > If you want to know why Josh can’t stand Donald Trump, it’s because Donald Trump was a Democrat- he’s a bit to the left of Al Gore circa 1988.

        Your mind-reading skills are amazing. I guess they are magically imbued as such as you are initiated into the cult?

      • My previous comment apparently went to spam because it had a direct quote of what O Rourke said about Trump.

      • https://www.politico.com/story/2016/09/new-photos-bill-clinton-trump-melania-227945

        Poor TDS cult.

        “The mechanic laughed ‘Its what they’ve got coming.
        O’rourke muses; ‘and maybe alas it still is’”

        If you want to understand Tony’s post and O’Rourke’s commentary, it’s because Josh’s party is no longer even recognizable to that mechanic much less cogent. The mechanic is well aware that Trump gets this and wants to go back so some sense of coherency. The dems absolutely hate both the mechanic and Trump for this.
        Go back and look at “never-Trump” conservatives’ writing from 2016. They didn’t want him because Trump was not a conservative and not a Republican and they didn’t want to hand the party and the movement over to Democrats and “populists.” It was a convincing argument- it’s why I voted for Rubio in the ’16 primary. The first time I have ever voted in a primary.

      • in addition, from a Dem party perspective, the reason we have Trump is because Hillary was so uniquely despised by Democrats that her 2016 campaign allowed Bernie Sanders to effectively take over the party and turn it hard left (for the US anyway).
        That chased away O’Rourke’s mechanic.
        As a result Hillary, who was unpopular to begin with, was forced to run on left-wing pap that everyone understood she didn’t even believe in.
        So now in 2020 we have the “moderate” with the Dem nomination- so “moderate” that he was not only there for the 1994 crime bill but he was senior enough to have written it. His entire nomination is intended as a message to O’Rourke’s mechanic: “we get it, sorry, we went off the rails for a long while now but we’re back from the brink. Pay no attention to the riots or the fact that the off-the-rails gang says they own Biden. Please, please vote for the Democrat who is a Democrat.”

    • tony –

      > A personal tax matter-whatever the ins and outs are -would destroy any politician .

      Prolly makes little difference here. There is the Trump cult, for whom nothing matters because Trump appeals to their identity-orientation in such a way nothing else matters. There are the Trump haters, for whom nothing matters because Trump repels their identity-orientation in such a way that nothing else matters.

      There is a group who are somewhat persuadable, but there’s nothing new in the tax revelations so it’s i think it’s doubtful this will make any difference.

      > It would however likely not destroy a business person, so the analogy then becomes clearer with Trump who might be able to run his business in one manner but some might say-rightly or wrongly- that you cant run a Presidency in the same way.

      Except this isn’t only about how he runs his business, but about how he lies and deceives the public about how he runs his business. He’s lying about the details of his business, and he’s lying about his taxes, and he’s lying about why he won’t release his taxes. I’d estimate that maybe 1/2 have has known this all along, maybe 1/3 doesn’t care or lie to themselves that they believe his lies, and maybe d1/6 might find something new here but prolly don’t care.

      > You have this cess pit that was Washington politics that many people hated but did not have a voice in till Trump the non politician came along.

      Trump hasn’t changed any aspect of the “cess pit.” Which reveals that despite the claims that Trump’s candidacy was about changing that, and despite people signing on to his candidacy as creating change, there are underlying factors.

      > For those here who still completely misunderstand Brexit, that sums it up.

      Seems that you misunderstand what Brexit was largely about. There’s plenty of evidence that for the most part, although of course there are some differences (e.g., here it focuses on an individual politician’s appeal, there it doesn’t), it was very much something similar as what was operative for Trump’s rise: People felt left behind because they no longer maintained the advantage relative to other groups that they historically held. So someone came along who could help channel that feeling of being “left behind” into a political energy. He serves as a vehicle for them to channel their unhappiness into antipathy towards “liberals” and “politicians” and “welfare queens” and the like, with time-warn appeals to populism and authoritarianism. It’s a well-used playbook.

      > Those of Americas friends looking in, see an America in decline and how powerful the slogan ‘make America great again’ was. We can sympathise with the message if not always the messenger,

      Exactly. The slogan of going back to some better state (without really offer meaningful change to help achieve that state) is a powerful message. It makes it so people can channel their sense of victimhood into a vehicle to make them feel better, to feel more hopeful. And once that emotional appeal sets in, nothing else really matters. It’s about dopamine. Someone who feels like a victim who is offered a means for feeling like their grievances will be addressed cares little about the specifics.

      > I wouldn’t bet against Trump, but would have done if the Democrats had a half decent candidate

      It’s an interesting question – as to what would be happening if the demz had a candidate that isn’t as incompetent as Biden? It’s facile to just hand-wave at some imagined better candidate. A candidate as appealing as Obama only had a limited ability to sway the same voting block as the one that supports Trump. No one quite riled up the antipathy as much as Obama did by the end after his 8 years in office with not much material improvement – relative to where people had been during these days when America was supposedly great – Trump won by largely channeling that reservoir of hatred towards Obama.

      What type of candidate could successfully do better against Trump than Biden is currently doing? It couldn’t be someone more left. It couldn’t be someone more right. It couldn’t be someone long affiliated with the Democratic Party. It couldn’t be someone who is a newcomer to the political scene.

      Perhaps if someone who has some personal charisma had run, who somehow at the same time didn’t have a powerful enough personality to offend the haters, he/she could have done better. But I can’t really think of anyone who that might have been. In some sense, I had hope that Sherrod Brown would get the demz nomination – but he’s got very little personal charisma. I was hoping that Stacy Abrahams would have gotten the VP nod, but I can imagine that because of her relative inexperience and certain aspects of…um…who she is…she would have inspired a lot of strong antipathy.

      It’s a new insight for me. I have long been feeling like anyone else with a pulse could stand a better chance against Trump – given his high unfavorable ratings. But as much as I’m aware of how weak Biden is as a candidate because of his shortcomings – it’s very hard to imagine who, in this time when Trump is channeling the strong emotion of grievances and victimhood, who would have been a better candidate.

      • You are a pathetic little guppy. There is no mystery about how MAGA Trump has run his businesses over many decades. There is no mystery about how tax lawyers hired by rich folks follow the tax laws to the advantage of their clients. Not so rich people use H&R Block to help them minimize the amount of money they have to give up to often corrupt and almost always inefficient national, state and local governments.

        The Democrat strategy against MAGA POTUS Trump has always been to denigrate and demonize him. That has been their blatantly unconcealed strategy against Republican POTUS candidates since MAGA POTUS Ronald Reagan. It did not work for those transparent little varmints against MAGA POTUS Reagan and it ain’t working against MAGA POTUS Trump.

      • Don –

        > There is no mystery about how MAGA Trump has run his businesses over many decades

        And yet he’s scared of releasing his tax returns.

        And lies about his reasons for not releasing his tax returns.

        And you lap it up like a good little puppy.

      • I support MAGA POTUS Trump in the exercise of his prerogative to not release his tax returns to be picked over and misrepresented by a bunch of left loon jackals, like you. He is not required to release them. No, I don’t care what reason or excuse he gives. You are pretending to read his mind, with your little left loon TDS mind. That’s your prerogative.

      • Tony –

        > He is not required to release them

        Are you watching this?

        He’s actually not capable of doing anything other than duck, deflect, and attack.

        Trump is scared to release his taxes obviously, obviously he has something to hide.

        Trump lies about his reasons for not releasing his taxes. He even lies and says he wants to release his taxes but can’t.

        Its incredibly pathetic.

        But yet his cult members just can’t deal with it.

        Remarkable, isn’t it? Comment after comment and he just can’t deal with it. Never seen anything like it.

      • We don’t care about MAGA POTUS tax returns. Now squawk to tony, you little left loon simp.

        https://www.foxbusiness.com/economy/trump-economy-mainstream-media-andy-puzder

        “Released two weeks ago, the Census Bureau’s report on “Income and Poverty in the United States” for 2019 clearly shows that, pre-pandemic, President Trump’s economic success blew past that of any other presidency.

        First, the Census Bureau reported that real median household income grew to $68,703 in 2019, an impressive 6.8% increase over 2018. It was the largest one-year increase in median income on record going back to 1967. It was also 45 percent more growth in a single year ($4,379) than Obama/Biden produced in their entire 8 years in office ($3,021).

        As was the case throughout Trump’s first three years, the economic benefits were widespread. While the overall growth rate was 6.8%, real median income grew by an even greater 7.9% for Black Americans, 7.1% for Hispanic Americans, and 10.6% for Asian Americans. All record highs as were the new income levels for each of these groups.”

      • PS:
        “As for talking points about how the Trump tax cuts benefitted only the rich, well, they were false. As incomes grew in 2019, the poverty rate plummeted 1.3 percentage points to a 60 year low of 10.5%. This was the largest reduction in poverty in over 50 years. It lifted over 4.1 million people out of poverty, the largest yearly decrease since 1966. Just for comparison purposes, over the Obama/Biden era, the number of people living in poverty increased by 787,000.

        Minority groups again experienced the largest improvements. While the overall poverty rate declined 1.3 percentage points, Black poverty fell by 2.0 percentage points, Hispanic poverty fell by 1.8, and Asian poverty fell by 2.8. According to the White House Council of Economic Advisers (CEA) “the poverty rate fell to an all-time record low for every race and ethnic group in 2019.”

        Child poverty decreased to 14.4 percent, the lowest child poverty rate observed since 1973 and down from 18 percent at the end of the Obama/Biden era. The best family welfare program truly is a job.”

      • Don –

        > We don’t care about MAGA POTUS tax returns

        Lol. Yeah, that’s why you’ve written about 20 comments on the topic.

        Reminds me of when you respond to my comments to tell me that hi don’t read my comments. Funny.

        I don’t care about his tax returns either. I don’t need to see them to know that he’s a crook and a poser.

        What I care about is that he’s been lying about his tax returns, with impunity, over and over, for years, because obviously HE CARES about NOT releasing his tax returns for some reason but he knows his sycophantic supporters won’t hold him accountable.

        And he throws lying crap out onto the floor to explain why he doesn’t release his returns.and his cult members lap it up and ask for more.

        It’s remarkable to watch. Thanks for proving my point.

      • Don –

        > We don’t care about MAGA POTUS tax returns

        Lol. Yeah, that’s why you’ve written about 20 comments on the topic.

        Reminds me of when you respond to my comments to tell me that hi don’t read my comments. Funny.

        I don’t care about his tax returns either. I don’t need to see them to know that he’s a cr**k and a p*ser.

        What I care about is that he’s been lying about his tax returns, with impunity, over and over, for years, because obviously HE CARES about NOT releasing his tax returns for some reason but he knows his sycophantic supporters won’t hold him accountable.

        And he throws lying garbage out onto the floor to explain why he doesn’t release his returns.and his cult members lap it up and ask for more.

        It’s remarkable to watch. Thanks for proving my point.

      • You always declare victory, but everyone can see that you are a mealy mouthed loser.

  105. Drudge Report looks like it has been taken over by Don’s left wing loons.

    https://www.drudgereport.com/

    “LOST MORE MONEY THAN MADE?” reads one headline from the top of Drudge, about the Times’ exposé. “FINANCED EXTRAVAGANT LIFESTYLE WITH USE OF BUSINESS EXPENSES…” reads another.

    ‘Can you believe how f*cking stupid the IRS is?’
    FLASHBACK: Ripped Obama 20.5% Rate…
    Said poor should have to pay to ‘be part of game’…
    WIRE: National Security Threat…
    Biden ad compares to what workers pay…
    Sells ‘I paid more income taxes than Donald Trump’ stickers…

    HuffPost’s S.V. Dáte, who famously asked President Trump a few weeks ago if he regretted “all the lying” he’s done to Americans, noted earlier today Drudge called into question whether or not Trump even is a billionaire:

    https://www.alternet.org/2020/09/cant-afford-to-lose-drudge-report-takes-on-trump/

    • Since he took a far left turn, Drudge’s fan base has been sinking like the NBA’s. So much contrived fury over cherry picked droppings from alleged pilfered tax returns that the NYslimes won’t actually share with the folks.

      Expect Biden to regurgitate this BS in reply to every softball question from left loon TDS “moderator” Chrissy Wallace.

      • This also From O’Rourke which also exactly describes our Labour party since Blair took it over and after his demise politically it has drifted until Corbyn took it by the scruff of the neck.

        ” Biden was the safe hands pick for the Democratic Party. Not that there was much else on offer . Bernie sanders and Elizabeth warren were his closest contenders. both were more generous in their offers to bribe the impecunious who are part of the Democratic base and amplify the virtue signalling of the over educated who are the other part..”

        Which means tens of millions of ‘joe the garage owner’ didn’t like the state of their country, nor the politicians who had been feeding greedily from the trough for decades (As ours had in the EU) and had nowhere else to go if they wanted to change things.

        The stables needed cleaning and Trump is only half way through the task, and has added some of his own problems, and I suspect the horses will be quickly back in the Augean stables if Trump loses. Are those horses leaving a mess worse or better than Trump? You will decide.,.

        Once again Joshua, despite my pulling together masses of material, you misunderstand Brexit which essentially was about regaining our sovereignty and independence with undoubtedly other issues, but those were the prime ones .

        Your equivalent being that you would approve your laws should be made in Peru, enforced by judges from Brazil and your axes being spent in Mexico and who you could trade with. Why would any self respecting country want that, especially one as old as ours?

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        > Your equivalent being that you would approve your laws should be made in Peru, enforced by judges from Brazil and your axes being spent in Mexico and who you could trade with. Why would any self respecting country want that, especially one as old as ours?

        There’s an issue there and I don’t doubt that it’s one th.ast you find animating. I get that you do and that’s why you keep harping on it.

        But you steadfastly ignore the carefully collected sociological evidence I’ve presented you, or offer lame responses – sometimes in the form of editorials from political activists. That’s fine, but I note that you continue in the same manner so there’s nowhere else to go with that.

        We see the same here – where despite all evidence to the contrary, Trump cult members can’t deal with the solid evidence of the whole “grievance” aspect of Trump’s popularity. I don’t doubt in the least that that evidence is simplistically misconstrued by some to think it proves that all Trump supporters are driven by racism. And I can understand pushback against that simplistic misinterpretation – but it doesn’t make the evidence and data just go “poof” and disappear.

      • The joshie type left loons want big government internationalist socialism, tony. That is not a self-respecting ideology.

      • Joshua

        I supplied you with piles of information from a variety of perfectly respectable internationally known sources on Set 16th (which you didn’t even acknowledge) whilst you have come up with nothing but a desire to try and prove a narrative that you have created in your own head.

        Lets leave it, as self evidently you believe you know more than an actual resident of the UK who forty years ago voted to remain in the UK and this time round voted to leave.

        . I would suggest that I do know my fellow ‘leavers’ various motives better than you do and the subject of who voted and why was dissected at enormous length over here in the months and years since the vote, as no doubt you will know the views of those that think like you in the US better than I will. So lets leave Brexit as its not me ‘harping’ on about it but you who keep introducing it.

        Now, what did you make of O’ rourkes comment? I have just ordered the book from our local book shop on the basis that Amazon need to start paying their taxes and stop treating warehouse employees like battery chickens before I would spend my money with them. Tax dodgers? Yes. I am sure you are as severe on them as you are on Trump. Do you buy from Amazon or the like?

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        > Lets leave it, as self evidently you believe you know more than an actual resident of the UK who forty years ago voted to remain in the UK and this time round voted to leave.

        I know that you’re a big believer in the value of anecdotal science.

        I think that anecdote is important, but that it’s also very much subject to biases such as motivated reasoning and confirmation bias. So I like using scientifically collated evidence as a backdrop. There is no guarantee in doing so, but it’s a matter of probabilities for me.

        There are obviously many residents of the UK who disagree with your views. I see no reason to take your particular opinions at face value merely because you love in the UK. Honestly, I think its pretty strange that you seem to thin that I should. And the fact that you’re obviously strongly aligned with a particular political perspective on the issue certainly doesn’t incline me in that direction. I mean no disrespect in that regard – it’s just a standard of skeptical due diligence that I take pretty seriously.

      • Tony –

        > Now, what did you make of O’ rourkes comment? I have just ordered the book from our local book shop on the basis that Amazon need to start paying their taxes and stop treating warehouse employees like battery chickens before I would spend my money with them. Tax dodgers? Yes. I am sure you are as severe on them as you are on Trump. Do you buy from Amazon or the like?

        I don’t particularly care more or less about Trump paying taxes versus Amazon – except as a matter of scale the issue has much more impact with Amazon.

        But the general issue of taxation itself, dwarfs the issue of even Amazon paying taxes also. Focusing the larger issue of taxation itself on whether Trump OR Amazon pay taxes is a red herring, IMO.

        In the meantime, I care quite a bit about Trump’s constant lying about his taxes, and even more that we have a president who lies with impunity and his supporters couldn’t care less – in fact love him all the much more because he lies and gets away with it.

        That is a disturbing phenomenon imo. He’s certainly not the first lying president, but the depth of the cult mentality surrounding him is something I haven’t seen before.

        Yes I also care about the power of huge corporations like Amazon to game the tax system even as many people face economic obstacles. It’s a big and complicated issue. But there is no condition of mutual exclusivity or zero sum framework where caring about Trump comes at the expense of caring about Amazon.

        Your whole construct in that regard makes no sense to me. It seems to be based on a basic misunderstanding of my views, and those of people who feel similarly to me about politics.

      • He is trying to bore you into submission, tony. It’s really pathetic.

      • Joshua

        Anecdotal science? I take the considerable trouble to gather information from the Office of National Statistics, The Economist, London school of Economics, Obruk, the Times educational supplement ! You gov polling and a Variety of named books with named references and those are anecdotal science?

        They are highly respectable and many are world renowned sources.

        This is why I didn’t want to get involved in developing that conversation at the outset . An acknowledgement of my post at the time, even to disagree, would have been nice Joshua as it took some time put together . I won’t bother to collect such detailed information again.

        Now that is really that on brexit, I will look at your other posts on the US election and see what you say. I am sure you must have some expertise and insight on that particular subject

        Tonyb

      • “…Amazon to game the tax system….”

        They don’t Game the tax system, they follow the law. The law that is the product of Democrats legislation as well as Republican. Corporate tax laws have a purpose, to foster economic growth. Amazon has increased their employee count by 600,000 to 700,000 in the last few years. They were able to do that partially because of the tax laws. For a sense of scale of these additional employees, the total of the UAW represented workforce in the Big 3 is only 150,000.

        Adding 700,000 workers also means adding tax revenue. Economic growth adds tax revenue, much more than increasing the top marginal tax rate. It does so because growth is cumulative and compounds the growth in taxable income. During Obama’s last 2 years, taxable income grew by 4.8%. During Trump’s first 2 years, taxable income grew by 22%. The top marginal tax rate for Individuals in 2016 was 39.6%. Those tax filers making over $1 Million paid a total of $373 Billion in taxes. In 2018, after Trump reduced the top marginal tax rate to 37%, those making over $1 Million paid $465 Billion in taxes. An instance where a tax cut ended up being a tax revenue increase.

        Part of that additional tax revenue was because of economic growth, and an increase in the taxable income to gross income ratio.

      • kid –

        > Adding 700,000 workers also means adding tax revenue.

        That’s why I said it was complicated. If you actually read what I write and think about it instead of just responding after getting triggered emotionally it might help.

        > They don’t Game the tax system, they follow the law.

        What is it with you boyz and the binary thinking?

        As for gaming the system, it’s a mater of perspective. When you have so much influence over how the laws are crafted, by virtue of the amount of money you throw around, yeah I think that’s fairly described as gaming the system even if it isn’t (necessarily – there are issues related to monopoly/oligopoly that I think merit interrogation) illegal.

      • Tony –

        > Anecdotal science? I take the considerable trouble to gather information from the Office of National Statistics, The Economist, London school of Economics, Obruk, the Times educational supplement ! You gov polling and a Variety of named books with named references and those are anecdotal science?

        I skimmed your comment. I should have responded so I apologize that I didn’t. But I didn’t respond because my reaction was that it was orthogonal, at best, to the collated evidence I provided to you and the issues I was trying to discuss with you and that you avoided addressing previously. (btw, post the link to that comment and I’ll check again to see if my recollection is wrong). There was nothing new for me. I don’t doubt any of the real evidence, although as I recall there was a bunch of junk from partisan pundits mixed in.

        Birbirbisntbwhther I doubt the real evidence that’s germane. If you’re really interested in discussing the evidence I provided to you, I’m game. But if you just want to dismiss it with a handwave, please don’t bother collecting any more material that isn’t actually on point.

        I was interested in discussing evidence as to what underlies the demographics of the vote. There was a clear signal of attitudes about Muslims and immigrants, and there is a lot of evidence that undercuts the oft’ heard analysis that it was about economic hardship. There also seems to be, as there is in the US, a signal of an urban vs. rural cleavage. But that’s just an obvious fact. What is of interest to me is WHY that cleavage exists in association with the geographical divide even if it isn’t aligned with the data on economics and income. If you want to discuss those data, just let me know.

      • J

        You are having trouble with comprehension. Piling money back into the business to expand the business is not gaming the system. Wake up.

        Actually, I thought you would whine about the example of cutting tax rates to increase taxes would send you over the edge. It’s so much more emotionally satisfying to put a higher punitive marginal rate on the evil rich. That commie obsession. So much better to extract a larger slice of a smaller pie than a smaller slice of a larger pie.

  106. The Conference Board’s Consumer Confidence Index for September rose to 101.9, up from 86.3 in August. Economists predicted 88.8. Bad news for the dims, who were hoping the folks would be very gloomy and pining to be rescued from the doldrums by old senile sleepy joe.

    • I wonder if ‘its the economy stupid’ will still be the deciding factor in this strange year?

      tonyb

      • Yeah, the Red China Wuhan Bat Soup virus threw a spanner into the works. If not for that, the economy would have been booming along as it was last year and old senile sleepy joe would have been burnt toast.

        A lot depends on the perception of the solid bounceback we are having. The dims will always moan that the economy is rigged to benefit white supremacists and is unfair no matter how good it is overall. So they will depend heavily on stirring up resentment among the underclass, sending their goons out to minority communities to cajole and buy votes. See video above.

        I been out there and my prediction is that black, latino and other usually reliable Democrat plantation voters will shock the doo doo out of the dims.

  107. Brad Parscale, a bright guy that went full MAGA.

    “One officer noticed that Candice Parscale had bruises on her arms and that she said they were from a physical altercation with Brad earlier in the week, according to the report. Another officer reported that Candice had scratches on her body and bruising on her face.
    Police also seized 10 guns from Mr. Parscale house.”

    I would note there seems like there are some criminal investigations looking into something about missing or embezzled 2020 campaign funds. Good thing Brad can afford the best medical and legal support. I’m sure Trump’s voters agree.

    Despite my displeasure with how Mr. Parscale ran Trump’s campaigns I hold no ill will towards him or his family and I hope he has a full recovery.

  108. More Democrat illegal vote harvesting. The DNC controlled mass media will try to bury this:

    https://nationalfile.com/bidens-texas-political-director-accused-of-illegal-ballot-harvesting-at-texas-supreme-court/

    from affidavits filed yesterday with the Texas Supreme Court:

    “I am a retired captain with the Houston Police Department I am now a private investigator.

    “I am currently involved in an investigation related to a wide-ranging and fraudulent ballot harvesting scheme in Harris County intended to rig the elections in the Houston/Harris County area. This scheme involves voter fraud on a massive scale.

    “Based on interviews, review of documents, and other information, I have identified the individuals in charge of the ballot harvesting scheme. These individuals includes political consultant Dallas Jones who was recently hired by the Joe Biden for President campaign to oversee their Harris County initiative. District 13 Texas State Senator Borris Miles, who is the handler of Mr. Jones, political consultant Gerald Womack, and Precinct 1 Harris County Commissioner Rodney Ellis. One of the companies these individuals are using as a front for this operation is AB Canvassing, although there are others that have been identified that we are investigating.”

    “I have in my possession video-taped interviews of witnesses attesting to the aforementioned people having groups of people completing thousands of absentee and mail-in ballots, including completing ballots for deceased individuals; illegally going into nursing homes, with the complicity of the nursing home staff, and filling out and forging the signatures of nursing home residents; signing up homeless individuals to vote using the ballot harvester’s address then completing the ballot and forging the homeless individual’s signature.

    “This entire operation is being run by the elite politicians of the Democrat Party m Houston/Hams County. FURTHER AFFIANT SAYETH NOT.

    • “The legal filing also includes allegations, without specific evidence, that a number of prominent Democrats in the Houston area are engaged in “ballot harvesting.” Quoting two brief affidavits from two men who say they are private investigators and former law enforcement officials, the Republican plaintiffs accuse a host of local Democratic operatives, including elected officials, of harvesting votes from people who are homeless or elderly. The filing provides no evidence to support these claims beyond hearsay claims from unnamed “witnesses.”

      The plaintiffs’ lawyer, Jared Woodfill, did not respond to a request to make the two men — who are referred to as “investigators” throughout the filing — available for interviews about their methods or findings”.

      ““I’m not surprised that Trump, Hotze and others are using all the dirty voter suppression tricks they can to undermine our elections and democratic process,” Ellis said. “I’m proud our County Clerk is working to ensure Harris County voters have the opportunity to vote safely and securely during this global pandemic, despite these partisan attacks.”

      https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/politics/election-2020/2020/09/28/382878/houston-republicans-sue-to-limit-in-person-and-absentee-voting-options-in-harris-county/

      • The video taped interviews of witnesses could be a problem. Do you think this sworn affidavit under penalty of perjury outlining the alleged offenses in detail and offering evidence including video recordings of witnesses attesting to the massive scheme is going to be ignored by the Texas Supreme Court, jimmy? Can you explain how this is all a Republican voter suppression plot, jimmy? I don’t get that.

      • James –

        Don’t bother. Don was here the other day posting a link to bogus “proof” that Biden used a teleprompter during an interview on Telemundo.

        Don’t give the the disinformation campaign oxygen.

        After Don’s prediction of 6,000 deaths from Covid, anyone who thinks he’s remotely credible is a lost cause anyway.

      • Oh no, the obsessed not too bright little guppy with the 6000 BS again. Pathetic.

        Old senile sleepy joe is asking for a nap break every thirty minutes during the debate. That’s the first thing his teleprompter prompted him to do, when he woke up this morning. Second: Wait for your oatmeal to cool, dummy. You have to try to speak clearly and be coherent tonight.

        Old senile sleepy joe can’t even keep up with the teleprompter. “I lost that line”. The slimy fake “journalist” bails him out:

        In this hilarious montage of teleprompter mishaps, you can see (1:40) the screen old sleepy joe is reading from at to his left in the fake news Telemundo interview. See the stupid looking squint. Can you imagine the stink if this was a Trump act?

      • Don –

        See that’s what I love about you.

        You’re a sucker for Trump to take advantage of, but you’re so confident in yourself that you’re so easy to set up for proving my point (oh, and btw, thanks for reading):

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/09/23/no-joe-biden-is-not-using-teleprompter-an-interview/

      • Here – so you don’t have to tax yourself with reading:

        https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/09/25/fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden-teleprompter-me-orig.cnn

        Now let’s see if you have the stones or integrity to admit that you were promoting lies like dear leader and hisn were doing.

        What a laugh. As if there’s any chance of you showing accountability.

        6,000. Hey, you were only off by 3,500%

      • Are we going to believe the fake news WaPo, or our lying eyes?
        Thanks for proving my point, guppy.

  109. Now, onto something significant. Hillary hatched the plot. Obama-old sleepy senile joe knew:

    • Is that known to be genuine? If so its pretty powerful and presumably has surfaced now to counter the claims about trumps taxes

      Tonyb

      • The communication is from the Director of National Intelligence to the Senate. It’s real. It came out now because the investigation of the FBI and CIA coup to stop, depose or cripple MAGA POTUS Trump is winding up. Durham has interviewed the big fish that rotted from the head, CIA Director Brennan, and it is no longer necessary to keep the facts secret.

        Hillary hatched the plot way back in July of 2016, the White House was briefed, the FBI fakers were given a referral for an investigation of said Hillary plot in Sept 2016, and they proceeded not to investigate Hillary but with a witch hunt of Trump based on the fake dossier provided by Hillary’s people. How about that, tony? Does that stink, or what? I wonder what our little left loon fish will have to say about this one.

      • Pretty extraordinary. It will be interesting to see how much traction the story gets in comparison to the trump tax story.

        We had a similar set of accusations in the uk brexit vote when it was claimed there was wide scale Russian interference and money being given by Russia to the leave campaign.

        It was investigated and found to be complete nonsense. Seems like the reds under the beds is still used to scare people

        Tonyb

      • There is way more than accusations here, tony. These are facts documented by the handwriting of the big rotten fish himself and other hard documents.

      • Tonyb, you have it backwards, the story about Trump’s taxes was released to counter the info that’s now coming out concerning the FBI (assisting in the supposed Trump collusion case even though they knew the source was unreliable; then wiped phones) and the Hunter Biden scandal (millions going to his firm from foreign entities while his father was VP.) And now this: was the collusion idea hatched by Clinton for political gain?

        Nothing to see here?

      • Yes it’s 100% declassified data. No way Clinton will ever be elected president now. Now do Jeffrey Epstein.

      • Rejected by both Republicans and Democrats as Russian disinfo.

      • Don –

        Why don’t you post that bullsh*t video about Biden using a teleprompter a couple more times?

        I notice that you’ve had nothing to say about posting that garbage.

        Tony will probably ask you earnestly if that’s for real too if you post it again, and speculate about how devastating it will be

        You boyz are hiliarious.

      • Lol. Don (plandemic/bill gates conspiracy theory/Qanon) 132 is on board also.

        Now we know it must really be a big deal like Tony speculates.

        Oh yeah, and they discovered that Obama was really born in China.

    • Oh, you mean this. OMG, Don, you’ll believe anything.

      Intel chief releases Russian disinfo on Hillary Clinton that was rejected by bipartisan Senate panel

      “Director of National Intelligence John Ratcliffe on Tuesday declassified a Russian intelligence assessment that was previously rejected by Democrats and Republicans on the Senate Intelligence Committee as having no factual basis, according to two sources familiar with the matter”.

      https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/29/john-ratcliffe-hillary-clinton-russia-423022

      • They have Brennan’s handwriting. He briefed Obummbr. There was an investigation referral to the FBI. They knew that Hillary was reported to be orchestrating up a fake hit on Trump related to Russia. And it happened. They knew that the fake dossier was contracted and paid for by Hillary, yet they used it to go after Trump. You skipped all that, you dumb fish.

      • This one really triggered the local left loons.

      • James –

        Seth Rich was in on it also.

      • Nobody mentioned Seth Rich. You made that up.

        They had information about what turned out to be Hillary’s actual plans to frame Trump for Russia Russia Russia from legitimate sources and they chose to investigate Trump instead. They actually used the fake dossier that Hillary contracted and paid for to get FISA Court authorization to go after Trump. That is some dirty seditious doo doo and if you were a decent loyal American you would be more than a little pissed about it.

  110. Our little lefty guppy is busy getting the spin on this from fake news Wapo NYslimes CNN and the like. Let’s see if he thinks this coup plot by the slimy thugs in the Deep State against a duly elected POTUS is maybe a little more significant than a citizen’s desire to keep his tax returns private or my 6000 prediction.

    • Over to you Joshua.

      I must say I had heard about trumps taxes but not about the link you gave above. Let’s see if anything surfaces here in the UK about it

      Tonyb

      • Don –

        You were suckered in by that nonsense about the Telemundo interview.. What a total sucker you are! Unbelievable.

        That’s exactly what I was talking about. The Trump campaign throws out a bunch of garbage and you lap it up like a good little puppy.

        And you don’t even have the stones or the integrity to admit that you repeatedly linked fraudulent videos.

        No wonder you believe Trump’s lies about his taxes. Lol.

      • What is fraudulent about the Telemundo video, guppy? It is what it is. Old sleepy senile joe is looking at the screen on the table to his left and reading off the thing. “I dropped a line.” The shameless clown doing the alleged interview bails him out. Are you blind as well as stupid? What about the Russia Russia Russia frameup coup, guppy?

      • Don –

        I posted the link that shows he was looking at a screen where a viewer was asking a question. No teleprompter.

        My God you’re gullible.

      • Tony –

        I hope you’re looking at this. Best example of a Trump cultist yet.

        Refuses to integrate irrefutable evidence that he was suckered by Trump and Jr.’s lies. Couldn’t be any more stark than that.

      • Joshua

        So its definitely not real? Seems people play really dirty in presidential elections?

        Have you got a link to that telemundo interview,I have not heard of it

        Tonyb

      • You are really getting frustrated, little guppy. It’s fun jerking you around.

        Old senile sleepy joe asked for breaks, a teleprompter and a standby medical team for tonight. Trump said no. The old sleepy fool agreed to be checked for an earpiece and backed out.

        POTUS should offer to take some of the old geezer’s questions for him so he can rest.

        Did you hear about Hunter’s Russian oligarch payoff in the million$? I wonder if Chrissy will ask that old fool any difficult questions.

      • Tony –

        It’s not that it’s dirty tricks that’s of note. What’s of note is the stunning level of gullibility among the cult members.

        The nonsense Don posted is thoroughly debunked here. You didn’t watch it already? You don’t even have to read:

        https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/09/25/fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden-teleprompter-me-orig.cnn

      • > It’s fun jerking you around

        Yah. You’re “jerking me around” by getting suckered into believing and then posting compete nonsense.

        You were prolly just “jerking me around” when you were off by 3,300% in your covid predictions also.

        Looks like your favorite way to “jerk me around” is to show what a dutiful little puppy you are.

      • What about that nutty $10K or order of magnitude bet you wanted to make, joshie? I forget what that was about. Do you still thinks it’s that important?

        Why did that little dim witted campaign functionary for old sleepy senile joe refuse to deny that the geezer was using a teleprompter for interviews? It’s not logical that he does not deny it, if it were deniable. What’s is the reason he won’t answer? Give us the reason. I will help you: old sleepy senile joe is hooked up to a teleprompter and other life-support measures.

      • Don –

        Stop being such an lapdog. Watch the Telemundo interview – it’s at around 22 minutes in. There was a viewer asking a question on the screen. They lost the video feed and he said something like “I lost the lady.”

        You’ve been had, Don.

        Just like when your black friends say “Yeah Don, you’re cool. You say “folks” and “brothers” and then laugh when you turn your back.

        You’ve been had.

      • How pathetic is it that the Trump’s opponent is such a bad candidate, and still Trump’s campaign still has to just make stuff up and con his supporters into making fools of themselces by getting suckered into believing hoaxes?

        Look, you’re prolly gonna win anyway – you don’t need to send your integrity and you self-respect up the river.

        Throw off the cult shackles. You can still vote for the guy, but don’t be a mindless drone who gets played all the time.

        Just watch the video and come back and admit you were had. You’ll feel better.

      • Don –

        Now pay attention:

      • I would like to introduce you to a few of my black friends, slumlord. They are really nice chaps. Not like some you might meet up with around your tenement in Queens.

        What was that big bet you were insisting I make with you? That was really nutty. You should apologize to Judith for making such a spectacle of yourself on her blog. This ain’t a bookie joint.

        I told you we don’t watch CNN. Almost nobody does. They get beaten by twenty year old Yogi Bear cartoon reruns. It’s because they have long ago lost all credibility with sensible people.

      • Watch the Telemundo interview Don,

        At about 22 minutes in they show the viewer/questioner on the screen to Biden’s left.

        You’ve been had Don. Bamboozled. Hoodwinked.

        And stop using your friends like some kind of token. It’s disrespectful. Prolly part of the reason why they laugh at you behind your back.

      • You are an obsessed little sucker. Comical and sad at the same time.

        I am going to get my popcorn and champagne ready for the show.

        Hope old senile sleepy joe can shake off the basement dust and put up some kind of a fight. If he just stays mostly awake, he will be declared the clear victor by the left loon talking heads.

        Remember back in mid 2016 when I very confidently predicted that the Big Orange Fella would be moving into the White House. Four more years.

      • Anyway, Don. I gotta go hole up somewhere out of internet and cable range until the debate is over so I don’t have to suffer from watching Biden embarrass himself during the debate.

        I’ll accept your acknowledgement that you’ve been bamboozled when I get back.

      • You are playing the lowering the expectations game on yourself, joshie. Some might call that self-bamboozlement.

        I never been bamboozled. Where I come from that would mean I was tricked into losing something of significance.

      • It’s called a reverse jinx. Don.

        But that’s not what I’m doing. I fully expect a disaster that will turn the election.

        Although you got bamboozled about the Telemundo interview, if you watch any portion of it you can see that Biden can’t put together a sentence.

        Of course it is possible that Trump is such a dope that he won’t be able to take advantage and his word salad is almost as bad.

        And probably a huge % of the public either doesn’t care at this point or is locked in one way or the other so it won’t make a difference.

        But no need to torture myself watching two dopes trying to under dope each other in a race to the bottom.

      • I stopped watching. It looks like old sleepy senile joe is on some really good medication and is using the Jeddi mind trick or some fancy telekinetic judo on the Big Orange Fella.

      • Joshua wrote:
        > I gotta go hole up somewhere out of internet and cable range until the debate is over so I don’t have to suffer from watching Biden embarrass himself during the debate.
        ….
        >I fully expect a disaster that will turn the election.

        Well, ya shoulda watched, Joshua!

        Biden called the President a “clown” and a “racist” and some other stuff, but ol’ Joe never really lost it.

        It was all kinda like mud wrestling.

        Biden did lie —

      • I meant to finish by saying:

        Biden did lie —quite a lot — about his son Hunter and all the corrupt payments to Hunter by foreign governments and oligarchs, but the American news media are all focusing on the mud-wrestling aspect, not Biden’s lies.

        Pretty much what all perceptive people expected.

        I still predict that Trump seems to win on November 3, but in the following few weeks the Dems “find” enough ballots to give it to Biden. And I don’t think Trump has the stomach to fight it out.

  111. Tony –

    It’s not that it’s dirty tricks that’s of note. What’s of note is the stunning level of gullibility among the cult members.

    The nonsense Don posted is thoroughly debunked here. You didn’t watch it already? You don’t even have to read:

    https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/09/25/fact-check-donald-trump-joe-biden-teleprompter-me-orig.cnn

    • We don’t watch fake news CNN, joshie.

    • Joshua,

      In days of old, going all the way back to the G. H. W. Bush administration, I was a huge fan of CNN (Bernie Shaw, Mike Chinoy, et al.). I was also a fan of MSNBC back in the G. W. Bush administration (Olberman, Matthews, et al.).

      But over the last four years, as it became clear that they were just lying and lying and lying about the Russian Collusion hoax… well, I have only so many hours in a year to waste my time listening to pathological liars.

      I literally view MSNBC and CNN now as less reliable than the National Enquirer (not that I have ever been a fan of the Enquirer!).

      I did watch CNN long enough to see Cooper and Lemon repeatedly make fools of themselves again and again and again: Lemon’s idiotic thing about that Malaysian Airlines plane going into a black hole and Cooper admitting that he did not know what an exponent is, to take two examples that come to mind. Those two examples especially offended me as a physicist, since I know a lot about black holes, not to mention exponents!

      I honestly do not think that any honest, intelligent people remain who listen to CNN or MSNBC (unless they are paid to do it).

      Dave Miller in Sacramento

    • Joshua

      You and Don will need to explain more about the ‘Faked’ Document

      “Intel chief releases Russian disinfo on Hillary Clinton that was rejected by bipartisan Senate panel”

      Are you seriously saying the Head Of intelligence-presumably a civil servant- deliberately leaked a document ‘ known’ to be Russian disinfo in order to help the President, without that caveat also being highlighted?

      TonyB

    • Joshua

      OK, I looked at that video. I didn’t like Dale and have no idea who he was but he seemed partisan, which was presumably his role?

      In that first instance Biden is clearly looking quite sharply left. What is he looking at? We don’t see it all in context but few people would have a teleprompter to the extreme left but it would be virtually in front so they could look directly at the transmission camera.

      I think he says ‘lady,’ that is to say the context could be he was looking at a TV screen on which was a female voter and the transmission link broke. However we cant see the whole thing so I wouldn’t want to judge either party guilty.

      Biden was pretty wooden though.

      As for the second one. I have watched Corben on British Tv for years, where he started out as a comedian. He’s a straightforward no nonsense guy. I would say his explanation was correct as to what the ‘teleprompter’ was.

      tonyb

      • Tony –

        > However we cant see the whole thing so I wouldn’t want to judge either party guilty.

        You must be kidding. The CNN piece makes it clear that the whole thing is a hoax and Don got snookered. And you’re incredibly gullible if you still think it’s possible it isn’t a hoax of you watched the CNN clip and still “wouldn’t want to judge either party.”

        Is amazing how easy it is for the Trump campaign to snooker some people. He power of motivated reasoning is awesome.

        Here – watch the Telemundo interview. It’s exactly as Dale showed. You need to step up your skeptic game.

        Around 20 minutes in: https://www.telemundo.com/noticias/noticias-telemundo/elecciones-eeuu-2020/video/watch-joe-biden-says-he-will-stop-deportations-first-100-days-his-presidency-tmvo9578314

        Here: https://twitter.com/TelemundoNews/status/1308829204264484873

      • Joshua

        You only have yourself to blame in presenting me with a hugely biased ‘gotcha’ type 30 seconds from an unpleasant reporter on CNN ‘so I didn’t even have to read’.

        The screen in that CNN link was very small,the commentator was talking over it to lead the viewer and there were subtitles. The tiny clip showed only the scene and not the context, and so was not conclusive. Context is very important. No jury could come to any decision but the Scottish one of ‘not proven.’

        You then link to the original telemundo version. Different kettle of fish. Full screen. A reasonable interview that I watched from ten minutes, so I could get the flavour and context of that incident. Biden was reasonably coherent and fluid.

        On full screen we can see that, as part of the general conversation, he turned to speak to that person on the TV monitor and we could see his jaw moving as he spoke and then the screen went blank and we could hear him say ‘lady’ instead of that annoying CNN clip where they talk over it or freeze it in order to accentuate that he didn’t say ‘line,’.

        So it was not a teleprompter.

        Please do me the courtesy of providing context rather than a few seconds of confused clips that, to your eyes demonstrates ‘case proven,’ as you hate Trump and had already made your mind up.

        If someone likes Don wants to present it from a different camera angle that appears to demonstrate otherwise, then I will watch it, but at the moment it is clear it was not teleprompter.

        I have no dog in this fight as I do not especially like either of them and wish the next leader of the western world was not likely to be Biden-the person that PJ O’rourke has nailed down correctly as second rate.

        tonyb

      • tony –

        The CNN made the hoax obvious. I only dug up the Telemundo clip because Don, after watching the CNN video and realizing he’d been had, pretended that he wouldn’t watch the CNN video because it was CNN.

        Anyone who wasn’t naively credulous could watch the CNN and see the relevant clip from the part of the Telemundo interview that made the nature of the hoax obvious.

        Don’t blame me for your credulity.

      • Joshua

        No, the CNN clip made it less obvious. They took the incident out of context, tried to lead the viewer and showed only the bit they SAID was the gotcha.

        They had a garrulous and tiresome commentator telling you what to think, a tiny screen, a few seconds of the clip, all overlaid with a graphic and sub titles. How on earth can you determine what is happening unless you had already made up your mind as you had?

        Context is everything when its an integral part of a continuous situation like the interview. In context you can see what happened. I do think your vitriol toward Trump clouds your judgement and makes you immediately believe anything bad said against him.

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        All the info was there to make he hoax obvious. The reason why you didn’t see that it was obviously a hoax is because you were triggered by your own political views. Your are over-confident in your own neutrality.

      • So, anyone who does not view issues the way Joshua does must have some form of bias. Joshua do you see any potential bias on your own part. TDS perhaps?

      • Tony –

        Starting at @ 1:25 of the CNN video you can see the conclusive evidence that it was a hoax. If you got triggered by the CNN partisanship, that’s on you. It’s easy to discount any of that without being triggered. It’s irrelevant to the evidence shown in the clip. All you have to do is want to make your own independent assessment.

      • Rob –

        > So, anyone who does not view issues the way Joshua does must have some form of bias. Joshua do you see any potential bias on your own part. TDS perhaps?

        Lol.

        There was sufficient evidence in the CNN clip to make the nature of the hoax obvious. The only reason why one wouldn’t see that is because they were inclined to believe the hoax narrative for some reason. The CNN clip shows the exactly relevant part of the Telemundo clip.

        Don was had, Tony was had, and I suspect you were had. Bamboozled. Snookered. Hoodwinked.

      • Joshua

        I have no dog in this fight. You detest the other dog and want to see it put down, whether or not it was guilty of doing anything. .

        Evidence. Context. Clarity. Surely all of them basic requirements when assessing anything?

        None of them present in that tiny and confused gotcha CNN clip driven by a highly partisan commentator.

        I have no idea what you believe my ‘political views’ are. I am no natural Trump voter. Which doesn’t mean he is always wrong or always right.

        tonyb

      • Tony –

        > If someone likes Don wants to present it from a different camera angle…

        Lol. “A different camera angle?”

        That’s hilarious.

        They deliberately spliced the Telemundo interview to eliminate the questioner/viewer part of the clip, and the part of the clip that made it obvious that Biden was looking at the screen to answer a question.

        The CNN clip shows the relevant parts that are jnvisuky edited out. You act as if someone could have watched the relevant section uncut and still believed that Biden was liking at a teleprompter. Not possible to someone who isn’t incredibly gullible. And the CNN video shows the relevant part.

        It wasn’t just “a different camera angle.” Again, you demonstrate your credulity. You need to up your skeptical game.

        > I have no dog in this fight

        See, that’s your problem right there. You aren’t examining for your own biases – which actually are quite obvious.